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renee1977_gw

Lasagna Gardening, and raspberry bushes & grapevines

Renee1977
12 years ago

Couple of questions rolled into one post...

Is anyone doing, or have tried, lasagna gardening. And if so, have you used this method on top of anything other than just grass? Has it worked?

I'm on a corner lot. One corner is a main road, the other is a new street to a new development. When the builder put in the road and sidewalks, he lovingly left us with a terrible dropoff into our yard, rocks, stumps and no topsoil or dirt at all for that matter! It's a large area that has become overtaken by weeds, grapevines, raspberries...you know - the only plants that can live in terrible soil! I've recently cleared it all (cut it down, didn't eliminate the roots though) and am considering lasagna gardening over everything...because it would be the least expensive option for me (vs. renting equipment to fix the unleveled area, and buying soil, rototilling, etc, etc...). I'm concerned though that by not removing the roots, lasagna gardening will not prevent them from coming back (but maybe at a more manageble pace...?)...??

Any and all advice is appreciated!!! I need to to something quickly before everything starts coming back!

Comments (12)

  • NHBabs z4b-5a NH
    12 years ago

    For right now, cover with multiple layers of newspaper and then your lasagna mix as thick as possible and water in well. Top it off with a relatively coarse layer to reduce the erosion potential. Watch carefully and immediately remove any sprouts and tuck the mulch etc back over that spot. I do this about every 3 or 4 days and it will only takes a short time each time, but if you let things go, they will reestablish themselves. I also might consider contacting the developer and asking him to provide soil on the slope . . . then you can do the lasagna garden over that. Plan on watching this area through the fall and being vigilant in the spring. I'd suggest using drought tolerant groundcovers and perhaps grasses or shrubs when you plant next spring and plan to do some watering while things get established. A photo of the area may get some more specific suggestions since we don't know about things like rock size, sight lines at the corner, steepness of slope, etc.

  • runktrun
    12 years ago

    Babs gave you really smart advise the only thing I have to add is reassurance that the lasagna gardening will knock down more than you think if you use a thick layer of newspaper or card board.
    I have a Berm aka junk pile left over from a Navy kitchen after WWII filled with flatware, china, pots, barbed wire, that I couldn�t even put a shovel through but after a couple of years of lasagna gardening I have some pretty good soil. Be patient and don�t give up if it doesn�t happen for you right away just keep adding leaves, clippings, etc you can definitely make this happen. kt

  • Renee1977
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    Thank you babs and kt! I worked on a little hardscaping tonight, trying to level off the really hilly areas and putting in a small rock semi-retaining wall where it is really steep. I'm tackling one section at a time, as the entire area that needs attention is about 70 feet long, and between 5-10 feet wide. Tomorrow I will start laying down the layers...baby steps!

    This is my first shot at lasagna gardening and I'm trying it in two places this year, the problem area I described in this post, as well as my vegetable garden. I plan to use wet newspaper (thick, first layer), lawn clippings, peat moss, and manure. Would you keep adding newspaper (maybe not as thick) in the layers, or just as the first layer?

  • diggingthedirt
    12 years ago

    I'd just use one thick layer of newspaper or cardboard, at the bottom. This is meant to kill existing vegetation. Extra newspaper further up isn't needed, and could interfere with drainage through the pile.

    The paper just gives an extra barrier to anything growing there that might have enough stored energy to push through the leaves and other upper layers; it can't get through the paper so easily.

  • NHBabs z4b-5a NH
    12 years ago

    Just so you know . . . uncomposted manure will have weed seeds in it and will need something on top of it unless you are buying it in bags, which I think will have been sterilized (though I'm not sure since my manure comes directly from the farm down the road.) Peat moss isn't great in large quantities as it tends to shed water once dry. I usually just put the paper on the bottom and then also put another layer on the top, right under the woodchips that I use for mulch because my manure has tons of weed seeds. My lasagna beds really don't have lots of layers; they are:
    -thick paper or cardboard if things are already growing
    - well-aged manure
    - thick paper or cardboard
    - woodchip mulch

    It is best to do what you are doing - one area at a time. Be sure that you put stuff deeply enough on the wet newspaper so that the newspaper doesn't blow away when it dries. (I often do my lasagna beds on a drizzly day so that the newspaper stays wet as I work.) Also, if you are doing this in a vegetable garden area, be sure that the newspaper is printed with soy-based ink since old fashioned printers used ink with heavy metals. (Just call the newspaper and ask.) Otherwise I use heavy cardboard without printing or with only black ink which doesn't have the heavy metal content. Grocery stores are a good source of boxes and brown grocery bags are a pretty good paper layer as well.

    For me the biggest challenge is finding good layering material. I don't know what your sources of organic matter are, but you might be able to get grass clippings from neighbors that don't use lawn chemicals or have dogs and leaves in the fall (chop them up by running them over with the lawnmower), pick up inexpensive compost from a city composting program, or get woodchips for your topmost layer from a tree service or power line trimming crew (I just stop and ask the crew if they will dump their load in my yard instead of at the yard waste part of the transfer station when they are working nearby.) Some folks have a nearby restaurant or coffee bar save coffee grounds for them.

    Good luck with your project. I'm sure that you and your neighbors will enjoy the outcome.

  • Renee1977
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    Thanks Babs!

    I'm also having a hard time finding layering material. The 'small area' I started working is bigger than I realized, and I had a hard time having enough newspaper for the first layer! I even stopped by the local paper and picked up, what I thought was, tons of their scrap newspapers! I had to go back for more! Then I ran out of grass clippings, which I thought was impossible! I backfilled with hay...hopefully that works - it's at least keeping the peat moss, manure and compost in place - for now!

    Thanks for the tips, it's good to know I'm not the only one with the 'finding materials' challenge! I don't like the idea of buying them, as one of things I liked about lasagna gardening was re-purposing and recyling things we already had. But, when you run out I guess you gotta do what you gotta do! = )

  • diggingthedirt
    12 years ago

    Oh, yes, I forgot about the layer of paper just under the mulch - good point!

    I've picked up coffee grounds from our local coffee shop - it's a "first come first served" deal where the workers leave big buckets of grounds out back. Those buckets are incredibly heavy, though, and the stuff smells remarkably repulsive, even to me, and I'm a coffee lover. Plus, I've read that worms really don't like coffee much.

    If you're anywhere near the shore, seaweed's a great mulch and a good layering material. It does take a long time to decompose, but you can plant into it as long as there's some soil-like material in the mix.

  • mmqchdygg
    12 years ago

    Renee- Have you tried posting a 'wanted' item on your local Freecycle board or Craigslist? You'd be surprised that people actually DO have stuff lying around that they just want to get rid of. When I started my lasagna garden and compost pile, I posted on both, and found people locally who had horse manure mixed with shavings as well as another person who had a 'started' compost pile in their back yard. Granted, they didn't do it right, and it was nearly 100% grass, but it worked for what I needed it to do!

    It's fall, and hopefully you'll also have leaves near you soon, so collect those.

    Does your town have a city compost pile or lawn/leaf pickup? If so, you can effectively ask people who have so graciously spent time raking & bagging it up ;) for their curbside offerings and just toss the entire bag & all in your new pile.

    I've been looking for more raspberry bushes; too bad I didn't see your post before now- LOL.

  • diggingthedirt
    12 years ago

    > It's fall, and hopefully you'll also have leaves near you soon, so collect those.

    I emphatically disagree. It's not fall, it's early summer! OK, maybe mid-summer. Maybe the latter half of mid-summer, but that's as far as I'm going.

  • NHBabs z4b-5a NH
    12 years ago

    Dtd - I had to giggle at your comment. When I was teaching, folks would always ask at the town fair (last weekend in July) if I was ready to go back to school!! Heck, I'd only just finished cleaning out my classroom it seemed like and there was no way I was ready . . . I still had half my summer.

    and to add to mmqchdygg's suggestion, I often see ads on Craiglist from folks wanting to give away manure, either in the "Farm and Garden" section, or in the "Free" listings.

  • diggerdee zone 6 CT
    12 years ago

    mmqc beat me to it, but I second the idea of posting on freecycle or craigslist. You'll definitely find paper and cardboard, and you'd be amazed at the things you can get!

    I do all my beds by the lasagna method now. It's the only way to go, IMO! I've never done it over raspberries and grapevine, but I have done it over other weeds and had pretty good luck. Like nhbabs says, if you keep on top of any sprouting weeds you should be good to go.

    Just curious... how did you get a capital "R" in your name? A few years back GW took all the caps out of everyone's name and it's been bothering my grammatically-correct anal side ever since...

    :)
    Dee

  • mmqchdygg
    12 years ago

    DOH! I think I had two thoughts going there between the time I started typing, then went with the 'fall' thought. It is most certainly NOT fall! LOL!