You know Rainbow Mums, don't you? That's going to be the biggest selection around, I think. However, I really wouldn't count on them coming back next year, even if hardy. I just think it is getting late in the season for adequate root development to make it. At least I, for one, have not had good luck at all planting mums in Oct and getting them to winter over. Next spring, I can give you some Sheffield Pink and other divisions of guaranteed hardy mums.

Yes, I'm familiar with Rainbow Mums. I have a couple of plants I bought from them last year. One aster and an Annabelle Hydrangea, both of which are doing pretty well this year, despite the drought. I think you are right, it is late to be thinking of mums. I had decided earlier to not even bother with any fall plants because we have so much tearing apart work to do and my yard looks so awful from the drought.

We have managed to keep one bed in the front looking pretty good and the front of the bed, street side, had a row of portulaca that were spectacular this year. Now they are all dead and ugly looking so I was going to just pull them all out and pop in some mums to last until the frost. I know that normally we could get a frost in the next two weeks, but last year was so different and I didn't have a killing frost in my yard until really late. Maybe I will just get that bed ready for the spring instead.

idabean...that is SO generous of you to offer divisions. I have a few hardy chrysanthemums that keep coming back for me too, including the Sheffield Pink. :-) I was thinking I may try more and pick up a few from Bluestone next year. Maybe we could trade next spring. I would also offer to trade aster divisions with you, but mine are not large enough to divide yet. They didn't grow any bigger at all this year. Between the rabbits and the drought, I think I am lucky I still have them at all. [g]

Now, my question is, what are the best conditions for asters and chrysanthemums? Mine keep coming back fine but they don't seem to be getting much bigger. In my yard, I have a lot of part sun and maple tree roots to work with, so I am thinking that may be it. Do they prefer full sun and moisture?

Thanks idabean, I really appreciate your offer. I wanted to tell you that all the divisions you gave me at the swap you had at your house, are doing really well. I am loving that Korean aster you gave me. The little button flowers are so cute. :-)

pm2

I look for different mum's too. My front door is kind of a dusty coral color and the typical fall colors don't complement it well at all. I have to search around for coral-peach that is not orange, but I always find them. One year I stumbled on them at Christmas Tree Shop!!!!!

Where I am located there are tons of mum/pumpkin/apple farm & flower stands all over the place. Rte 119 from 495@littleton heading west, there are 3 or 4 places pretty close to 495. I haven't made it to those stands yet. I mostly hit back roads on the way to Nashua or further west thru Lunenburg/Townsend.

When I did my first round of mum buying a couple of weeks ago, I saw many late blooming ones that had no color yet. In a week or so, I will make the rounds again and get some late blooming ones to take me through November. I may not find my door color ones on the 2nd round though.

Wendy...I actually had been thinking that if I got some mums now they would be around for Thanksgiving. That is almost 7 whole weeks of mum blooms? But will they stay in bloom that whole time?

I can't remember from one year to the next when things bloom...brain drain..lol. So, actually, if I find some inexpensive mums, I could just pick up 3-4 of them and that would suit my purposes and if they don't come back next year, it's no big deal. I can worry about the hardy ones in the spring.

Thanks for the tips on where to look for them and good luck in your color search. :-)

pm2

I remember Thanksgiving and the timing of mums because when I host Thanksgiving, it is extremely difficult to have mums in bloom - whether mine purchased earlier or even to buy a couple of new ones. I think only white ones are still blooming that late. I usually have to settle for kale and dead grass.

When I was at Rainbow last year we were talking about how to help mums come back. She said that many people have luck with the dark red ones. Also she said to look for new basal growth on the plant now. THat would be a good sign that it has a chance.

I think a good snow cover helps too. Yes, they do best with full sun, but I have one that came back respectably with part sun.. early morning and late afternoon.

If I do want to try to get them to come back, I try to plant them early in the season in the ground in a well prepared hole and loosen up the roots a lot. But having said that, I have a great patch of three orangey comebacks that I threw in the ground quickly one night with a flashlight. There was some reason I had to get them in at night or I would not have another chance. And they were horribly rootbound and would have otherwise needed constant watering. I was totally shocked when they came back in the spring. All three of them in a nice little triangle that was created in the dark.

Another tip for helping them come back is to deadhead them when they are done blooming. sends the energy to the roots.

Give it a shot!

Great information Wendy, thanks a lot. That is a funny story about going out with a flashlight to plant them. I have not had to resort to that yet, [g] but, I go out with a flashlight a lot. Usually to hunt down earwigs or look at fascinating night insects or smell the four o'clocks and Moonflower Vine. :-)

I will have to move one of the mums into more sun for next year and see if it increases the size. I hadn't thought of the deadheading either.

I've had luck wintering them over by keeping them in containers and bringing them in the garage. I cut off the flowers, give them a good watering and pretty much let them be. Maybe one mid-winter watering. There's no light in my garage and I do this with plants in large containers only--no 6" pots.

In March, water them again and move them outside to a sheltered location. Then you can divide them and plant the divisions in the garden in April or May, depending on the weather.

As for the late blooming, that is the natural habit of most of our hardy chrysanthemums. The breeders have had to work very hard to get the early-blooming plants we all want.

If anyone wants some rock-hardy, tall, lurid pink, late-blooming mums, they have taken over what's left of my vegetable garden and are in the process of overrunning my nursery bed. I'd gladly part with a large swath or 2 of these next spring. (OK, I should admit that I'm just looking for a reason to finally dig and divide these monsters.)

French vanilla does well for me planted on a slight hill - it's where I grow things that like to be really dry in winter; agastaches and lavenders do well there. I've lost that particular mum in several other locations, but it's been really reliable for several years now on that little hill. Makes me think that keeping them dry may be as important, or more important, than keeping them mulched.

I had those dark reds, and they did alright for a couple of years, but didn't even show up this spring (actually, I should get my flashlight and go check, it;'s been awhile since I visited that area ... )

ginny...always nice to have another option for wintering over. Very clear instructions to follow, thanks.

Thanks dtd...the French Vanilla is a pretty mum. I will have to remember that slight hill trick with it and the lavenders and agastaches. Your 'lurid' pink sounds very eye-catching. [g] Generous of you to offer them. Is it unusual for a mum to be that huge? I have had two for at least 5 years and they have never needed dividing. I do have the Sheffield mum that does get large pretty fast and have had to divide that one. I might need to give parts of that away in the spring too.

:=)

A key point to remember about the mums commonly available in the fall is that the breeders were selecting for many factors that would make for a better display, but not selecting in the slightest for winter hardiness. It isn't simply that they don't have time to get established. Other perennials suitable to your zone, that you plant in the same time period, will come back and thrive.

All good ideas in this thread.

Pm2 you may want to look next spring at Bluestone perennials. They sell the smaller starter plants of mums that you plant in spring time. I bought from Bluestone one year and the plants had time to settle in and grow before winter and they did survive until next spring. Remember if you plant smaller plants in spring you have to pinch them back several times before end of August or they'll be tall and lanky. So if you try to overwinter them you have to be responsible for pinching them... so one drawback.

I have also done successfully what Ginny2 suggested and keep in an unheated garage in their containers with little water over winter.

Sue

asarum...I've actually had pretty good luck with fall mums coming back the next year. I currently have three that I bought without even inquiring if they were hardy or not, just because I liked the color. Two of them I used in containers in the fall and planted them in the ground after they had gone by. The other one I bought last year and left it in a plastic window box on the ground all winter. I was very surprised when it came back this spring and it is blooming now. That is something I hadn't thought of, that they are just not breeding for hardiness.

Sue...I bought a 3 pack of Medicine Bow Chrysanthemum from Bluestone this spring. They have been in the ground for awhile now, but are pretty small, only three stems, but they do have buds and one is getting ready to open. I couldn't remember what color they are going to be so I went back to the website to look at a photo of them and it was the oddest thing, I looked at it and thought, why did I buy that? lol I am thinking I may try a few more next spring too, but isn't it hard to buy it by mail without seeing the bloom in person? I did very well with plants I purchased from Bluestone this year on the whole.

I am always amazed at all of you that overwinter everything. I haven't really got a space that is right for it. I tried it a couple of times but my garage is too cold and my basement is too warm.

pm2