I have no clue about veggies.
I'll pass.

Okey dokey Cady it's your turn.

Sugar snap peas. Another crop that loves cool spring temps and would thrive in this garden. Be sure to insert pea sticks (just slender twigs from the surrounding trees) for the pea vines to scramble up. Pea sticks bring the plants up to the sun, lend support to their lanky vining stems and tendrils, and look totally charming when you have a row of them. I particularly like the ones built into little "teepees" for the peas to wind around as they grow.

Cady,
I love the idea of sugar snap peas growing up teepees the architectural height, the plant color, and best of all the taste. I am slowly warming up to the idea of growing a few veggies some year.
mad_gallica It's your turn to tempt us with something yummy.

Beans, green, yellow and purple.

(and to go with the beans, dill to be planted after the sugar snap peas come out)

Mad_gallica,
Are you hoping to make dilly beans?
Nhbabs it's your turn.

Lettuce leaf basil for its mellow flavor and huge textured leaves that make it easy to harvest.

How much milder is the basil flavor would you add it to a pasta sauce?
It is my turn and I am choosing fennel which is one of my favorite roasted veggies. Often I will take a mixture of left over roasted veggies puree them and use the puree as a low fat and very flavorful rue for gravies.
Florence Fennel is an edible plant with ornamental feathery leaves, up to two feet high, and enlarged, aromatic leaf stalks. Although a perennial it is usually grown as an annual and harvested in late summer. This southern European native was cultivated in American gardens by 1800. Sow seed indoors or directly in the garden in spring. Plant in full sun and rich garden loam. kt
Vtskier it is your turn

Like George I know nothing about growing vegetables but I do eat them so I'll go with my personal favorite, Asparagus.

Sue

Sue,
A friend just told me she added asparagus to her standard potato leek soup and pureed until velvet texture. She said the asparagus flavor held up and the soup was out of this world.
Gardenbug it's your turn.

Can I play for the day????

Jumping ahead with Marie, espaliered Golden Russet apples (known in MA since the mid 1700's). Great idea!! Sorry for the outburst, back to the veggies :-)

Martie

Thanks Martie! My dad loved Russetts.

I can't imagine a vegetable garden without eggplant. Here is my harvest before frost on October 7th:
{{gwi:182072}}

Notice that there are dark purple long ones, round bowling ball ones too. Then there are the striped elongated ones. I love them all!

The trouble is, historically this is a no-no, at least as far as eating them is concerned.
"The eggplant was among the plants introduced early into America by the Spaniards. It was grown in Brazil before 1650. In the United States purple and white varieties for ornament were described in 1806. Until a mere 50 years ago many varieties of eggplant grown in America were for ornament only.

In this country today we grow only the large purple sorts, but people of other lands, especially in the Orient, prefer varieties with small elongated fruits that can be fried or otherwise cooked whole. In Japan eggplant is the third or fourth most important vegetable (after sweet potato, radish, and perhaps Chinese cabbage)."

I love the lavender flowers it displays too. So even if only for ornament, I think we need a row of them!

Off to make Moussaka for dinner...with my home grown eggplants. :-)

Wow Bug what a bountiful harvest your really making me re-think this veggie garden thing. Thanks for the insight to eggplants.
Martie since you are with us such a short time can you choose another veggie for the garden?

Russets are my (and my family) favorites too. Here in Mass., you can get them at Brooksby Farm in Peabody, though the rains made it a bad season this year, and for the first time I can remember, they don't have Russetts available. :^(

Martie must be busy so Cady can you tell us about your veggie.

Swiss chard. Choose the new "decorator" varieties such as 'Ruby Glow' that is a really gorgeous, rich red. There is a bright golden yellow one that pops too -- Gold-lemon stalks with dark green leaves.

For cuisine, treat it like spinach -- steaming it lightly or tossing it raw in salads.

Chard lasts into the freezing weather of late fall, though the starch in the stalks gets converted into sugar once temperatures dip below freezing. Some people don't like sweet chard, preferring the starchy flavor of the summer shoots (I prefer the starchy too), but it looks nice until the snow covers the garden.

I can get Russett's at an orchard 5min from my house. Shipping is possible. Email me separately.

Here I am with my veggie!! (computer woes at home so sneaking in at work ;-)

Onions. Every kind imaginable for Z4B.

Martie

LOL...well here are some true confessions of a moron. While in New Zealand last spring I saw for the first time this beautiful ruby swiss chard that I just had to have for my garden I love how the jewel tone color makes a real impact. Planted in a raised bed at eye level with the sun turning it a brilliant red...I was in love and ran right out this fall and bought both the red and yellow. All this while it never dawned on me that this plant is anything but an ornamental and could actually be eaten. i have never tried swiss chard before having often been advised that it is bitter tasting. If only for the color I suppose I need to throw some in a salad.

Mad_Gallica it is your turn to charm us with your choice of veggie.

Kt - The lettuce leaf basil tastes about the same if you are using it in spagetti sauce, etc. I only notice the difference in pesto, which is milder and mellower if made with only lettuce leaf, so I usually mix the lettuce leaf with somewhat sharper Genovese basil for that.

Wow! You all have been busy since I last played. Back from 87º Hawaiian vacation to 32º arrival at Bradley, I've been taking notes as I catch up:

Martie did a great job with the layout, I've sketched a pic to help me visualize it. As I read Cady's clarification, am happy to see 'contemporary' allows modern cultivars. I love researching historic varieties, but wouldn't want to limit myself to growing only them. And we do have the Historical/Heirloom 30' x 100' garden yet to be planted.

Noticed the Mixed Border got left out when the space was divvied up, can we include shrubs and some annual fillers in the Perennial border? Since Martie has obligations which allow playing only occasionally, I'd be happy to work on a layout for it when the time comes, welcome any & all help.

Not sure what the road trip thing is about, but Cady asked "Are there any public parks, historic sites or garden-related sites in your area that might be worth exploring?" I'm under the impression that narcnh lives in the Claremont, NH, area, ~ 30+ miles north of me. Nearby are Fort at No. 4 in Charlestown, NH, and Saint-Gaudens National Historic Site in Cornish, NH. Neither of which I've visited (waiting for out of town visitors to share the experience). Also, The Fells in Newbury, NH, lovely gardens part of the John Hay National Wildlife Refuge, member of the Garden Conservancy, which I have visited. Gorgeous during a friend's July wedding, not sure about this time of year.

I tried Lettuce leaf Basil alongside my usual plain-old Sweet Basil this year. Found it large-leafed, slightly milder as babs said, but so much more prone to some kind of black patchy blight in my garden that I won't grow it again (anyone want my extra seed?). Sweet has larger leaves than Genovese, I freeze ~ 3 quarts of leaves each year for winter use, still have a huge bouquet in water harvested before frost.

Condensed the summary for my own use, updated Kitchen Garden size to reflect Martie's layout, here's what I have so far:

Zone: 4b
Light: 25% full sun, 50% sun to shade, 25% full shade
Water: automatic soaker hose with overhead sprinkler in half the shady section
Soil: sandy, amended with compost
Challenge: mature oaks and maples around perimeter
Type: contemporary country, mid 1800s farmhouse white/green shutters with low fieldstone wall
Dimensions: 400' x 900'
Gardens:
Kitchen 150' x 100'
Herbs 30' x 30'
Fruit 100' x 100'
Veggies 2 @ 20' x 30' (total 1200 sq. ft.), rows 3' apart
Household 2 @ 10' x 30' (total 600 sq.ft.)
Perennial border 20' x 100'
Woodland 100' x 100'
Mixed Border
Cutting 25' x 25'
Historical/Heirloom 30' x 100'
Plants: Kitchen
Clematis 'Polish Spirit'
Turnips
Rhubarb
Spinach 'Prickly-seeded '
Carrots 'Early (Scarlet) Horn'
Tomato 'Early Cascade'
Peas 'Sugar Snap'
Beans - green, yellow and purple
with Dill
Basil 'Lettuce leaf'
Fennel - Florence
Asparagus
Apple 'Golden Russet', espaliered
Eggplant
Swiss Chard 'Ruby Glow'
Onions

Back in the hat & glad to find new company since I was last there,

Ana
PS: My soil choice, sandy? not especially acidic due to all the compost which tends to neutralize both acidic and alkaline. We only need a bit of lime or wood-ash for plants who like a higher pH, but acid-lovers (blueberries, Rhodie family) will do just fine.

Sorry, forgot to include Martie's thoughtful hardscape in my summary. (It's in my sketch) Will try to work up a postable version as time allows.

Great summary, Ana. I'm not sure I could go off on a trip, and be able to immediately write a cogent overview of a long thread on my return. lol

As we work along on this wonderful fantasy project, I'm starting to wonder whether iVillage will allow us to keep posting beyond 150 messages? Although the old GardenWeb used to close threadds at 100 posts, I've noticed that now we can post more, but there still seems to be a limit afterwhich the thread drops off the edge. We may want to keep track.

Also, for the individual/duo design part, it's been fun designing as a team, and I'm wondering whether we should stick to that, rather than do the single/duo design stuff as originally discussed? I don't have design software with which to provide a useful image, and would only be able to describe the design (unless George can do a mock up). Hope that's okay. Or do we want to scrap the individual designs and stick to this group approach -- which has been fun! -- ?

Wow, Ana I am going to say you certainly sound well rested I hope your trip was everything you dreamed it would be. I am going to start another post of plant photos that I took in New Zealand over the spring and hope if you took any lush photos you would add them as well. Thanks for the summary as I have confessed before I know nothing about vegetable gardens but I am thinking perhaps we should distinguish what season or seasons that each plant would be growing in the garden. This way we will have a better idea as to available space ect. I have also stumbled on a few veggie placement tips that may be common knowledge to you all but I thought I would post some and hope that others would do the same. Here is an example of what I found. A dozen tomatoes plants will feed a family of four with an ample harvest for preserving and freezing Bury crushed eggshells in the planting hole. Tomatoes need extra calcium
Plant marigold near tomatoes to prevent root nematodes
Do not plant tomatoes with members of the cabbage family (Brassica)
Lettuce will do well in the shade of tomatoes
Plant dill to attract the tomato hornworm away from tomatoes. If you discover the green tomato monster, remove by hand unless he has white spots on his back, these are the larva of his predator so let him live (for a while)
Plant calendula and nasturtium to ward off aphids
Plant wildflowers near tomatoes to attract beneficial insects (ladybugs, lacewings and others that prey on aphids, whiteflies and other pests)
Keep a birdbath full so that thirsty birds will not drink from your tomatoes
Cady I haven't even begun work on an indivdual design but would certainly love to see any what any one else has done.

Wow, Solana. You nailed it. Remember it was absolutely Narc's design, too. He made it visible for people who wouldn't have "gotten" it otherwise. A very cool skill and one that I don't have.

IMHO, this is how great gardens come together. Collaboration is key. I'm looking forward to seeing your visual, too, for a different look.

And, ever the trouble maker: Wouldn't it be fun to find a coupla acres somewhere mid-NE and "do" this garden??? What's everybody doing in the Spring of '08?? LOL

Martie

Well I think Mad_Gallica must be busy so Vt skier please choose another of your favorite veggies.

Martie I'll take all the names out of the hat pass it around GWer's to collect funds for our garden plot somewhere mid-NE. Now of course it may be difficult to find volunteers to weed a plot the size of ours!! kt

How about cherry tomatoes? I grew them in a pot on the patio this summer. In the ground with alot more support would be better. One of my dogs must have seen me eating them off the vine because the next thing I knew she had her front paws in the pot and was plucking tomatoes off the lower branches (small dogs).

Sue

lol...Sue it took me a while to figure out where my tomatoes were disappearing to as well but now my dog has moved on to crab apples.
Nhbabs it is up to you to pick a veggie.

I thought I would send the following email off to the software designers below. Are there any thoughts?

Hi,
I am one of a number of New England gardeners who exchange ideas and information at the gardening web site "Garden Web". Over the last few weeks a number of us have been attempting to design a kitchen garden first then the rest of our 3 acre New England prototype. We have taken turns to come up with the following info and although far from complete we are now wondering if your software can help our designs come to life. Opinions seem to vary greatly as to the value of design software in general and this could be a wonderful forum for you to demonstrate your product to a very specific audience. This project will probably take us well into the winter with an ever changing and increasing group of gardeners. If you would be interested in demonstrating your software please email me at; katyguerin@adelphia.netcontemporary country garden for a mid-19th-century farmhouse surrounded by a lichen-encrusted, low field stone wall.
Kitchen Garden 150' x 100' (fruit veggies, herbs)
Garden will be parceled into four distinct sections:
Veggies 20'x70'
Fruit 100'x100'
Herbs 30'x30'
Household Goods (since we're keeping with tradition)
Veggie garden will be planted in rows approximately 3' apart the short way, providing for about 25 varieties of food, including vining plants. Veggie garden's only hardscape would be requisite cold frames and one bench.
Herb Garden will be round - no brick/too weedy for path planting - but native granite slabs splitting the garden into quarters with a 5' round center.
Around the perimeter, 1' tall rock wall made with same native granite. A 3' opening at each end of each path.(A lot of houses like the one we chose had flat stone walls around herb gardens to use as heat conductors for maintaining temperennials from seed saving)
Fruit area would stay grassy and include complimentary varieties of trees. Nothing elaborate here, either, except for an arbored walkway going from the herb area to the fruit area where vines can be grown.
Household area in the most inconspicuous spot possible as luffa, cornbroom and weaving materials are rather unsightly.
So, imagine standing on the back porch at the kitchen door. Immediately in front of you is the herb garden with sundial in the center and a few nice pieces of terra cotta on the wall to utilize that extra radiant heat. Walk straight through the herb garden and reach the vined arbor approximately 8' wide and tall. About 20' long. Made of wood and painted white to match the house. Fruit trees on either side of the arbor and at the end an additional 70' straight. Depth is now 150'
On either side of the herb garden, veggies extending 20' depth and each bed 30' wide. (there's your 100') 5' grass area between sides of herb garden and veggie bed s. One side is early stuff, the other side is later stuff for ease in care. Dedicated raised areas for perennial veggies (asparagus, rhubarb, etc.) in early stuff side. Cold frames in both gardens, and a stone bench near where the herb garden meets the fruit.
Household goods stuff takes up the 10 x 30' between veggie garden end-depth and start of fruit trees on both sides
Zone: 4b
Light: 25% full sun, 50% sun to shade, 25% full shade
Water: automatic soaker hose with overhead sprinkler in half the shady section
Soil: sandy, amended with compost
Challenge: mature oaks and maples around perimeter
Type: contemporary country, mid 1800s farmhouse white/green shutters with low fieldstone wall
Dimensions: 400' x 900'
Gardens:
Kitchen 150' x 100'
Herbs 30' x 30'
Fruit 100' x 100'
Veggies 2 @ 20' x 30' (total 1200 sq. ft.), rows 3' apart
Household 2 @ 10' x 30' (total 600 sq.ft.)
Perennial border 20' x 100'
Woodland 100' x 100'
Mixed Border
Cutting 25' x 25'
Historical/Heirloom 30' x 100'
Plants: Kitchen
Clematis 'Polish Spirit'
Turnips
Rhubarb
Spinach 'Prickly-seeded '
Carrots 'Early (Scarlet) Horn'
Tomato 'Early Cascade'
Peas 'Sugar Snap'
Beans - green, yellow and purple
with Dill
Basil 'Lettuce leaf'
Fennel - Florence
Asparagus
Apple 'Golden Russet', espaliered
Eggplant
Swiss Chard 'Ruby Glow'
Onions

Thanks
Katy Guerin

stuart.cohen@punchsoftware.com - Punch Master Lanscape Pro version 10sales@showoff.com - Imagine Pro
http://www.valusoftsupport.com Custom landscape Designer
pr@individualsoftware.com - Total 3D Home & Landscape Design Suite
info@landscapeyourvisions.com Landscape Vision

I'll plant garlic - any and all varieties that are hardy in 4b. (Virtually any food in our house that isn't dessert starts with onions and garlic, so my garden always has them.)

I am with you nhbabs I would never consider cooking anything (except perhaps carrot fudge) without using garlic. I can by fussy about the quality/freshness of the garlic but have found that I like the Trader Joes frozen in little cubes garlic when I am in a hurry.
The next name out of the hat was mine and I have to confess Cloud9 and Gardenbug gave me this idea.

Globe Artichoke was included on one of Jefferson's first lists of vegetables grown at Monticello in 1770. His Garden Book sporadically charted the first to "come to table" and the "last dish of artichokes" from 1794 and 1825. Also known as French Artichoke, this native of southern Europe has been in cultivation since the 1500s. Globe Artichokes are not reliably hardy in Virginia, as Jefferson acknowledged in his letter to his Parisian friend, Madame de Tessé, in 1805: " . . . we can have neither figs nor artichokes without protection from the winter." To grow as an annual, sow seeds in pots indoors during late winter and transplant seedlings to the garden. Globe Artichokes need rich, well-prepared soil, plenty of sun, and even moisture. The edible "chokes" develop by mid-summer and several can be harvested during the season. If left on the plant, they will develop into a purple, thistle-like flower. USDA Zones 8-10.

Solana it's your turn to choose a veggie.

Thought I would share the first email response to garden design software companies.
Katy,

This sounds like a wonderful idea and a lot of fun.

We dont have anyone available that could demonstrate the software, but we would be happy to send you a copy of the software free of charge, and perhaps you could send us the sample files from the gardens you create, so we could showcase them as examples within a future version of our software.

If you would be interested in doing this, I would be happy to send a copy of the software to your attention. I would need your mailing address.

Thanks,

Matt Hendrickson

Senior Director, Product Management

Wow! Way to go, kt!
All because you were bored on a rainy Sunday. :)

Let's see what we can do to make an interesting demo garden for future software.

Many of my must-haves are already on the list (tomato, basil, garlic) my choice is Peppers.

For a family of 4? Maybe a half-dozen sweet bells if they have freezer space for winter use, 4 'Mexi-bells' if seed were still available (slightly warm, wonderful for salsa which I put up in dozens of pint jars each year), 2 Jalapeños, a 'Cayenne' and 3 'Thai' peppers for both heat and their beautiful, compact size. Dig the last 3 up to over-winter indoors 'cuz peppers are actually perennials, I hand-pollinate with a paint brush when they bloom late winter and it's a thrill to see the fruits develop.

Babs: I tried lettuce-leaf basil this year for the first time next to my usual plain-old 'Sweet'. Found it huge-leafed, somewhat milder, but much more prone to some black patchy blight in my garden.
Grow scads of rocambole-type garlic each year, have so much, & it's well-behaved, I use it as a marker between rows & varieties. Plenty to share if anyone wants.

Katy: Florence fennel is one of my faves! Quartered, baked with a drizzle of olive oil or butter, a grating of Parmesean cheese the last 5 minutes. Yum!
Grew Globe Artichokes for 4 years, 'Imperial Star' @ 120 days from transplant. Never got anything, but now read it needs warm-cold-warm vernalization: start above 60º, after 6 weeks transfer to cold above 25º for 6 weeks, then set out as a heat-lover similar to eggplant (plastic, row-cover). Tried its cousin, Cardoon with edible foliage, this year with scant results (overcast, wet year) but both have beautiful gray foliage, so worth growing as an ornamental similar to your Chard experience.

Happy to read your reply from Matt. What company does he represent? Among the doubters of garden-specific software, here's my sketch of our fantasy kitchen garden done in a generic drawing program, believe it's to scale with overall 100' x 150'. House to the left, stone walls and benches in gray, cold frames yet to be placed. Could add colors & details, but it'd take longer to download, and this thread is already long.

Ana

Solana, You have an endless amount of energy. I love that you shared this to scale drawing I am so visual and this really helps. Loved the info on pepper plants I had no idea they were perennial. It is no wonder that I never see artichokes being sold as ornamentals or as veggie plugs at my nursery. The warm cold warm would be difficult at best.
Cady, Wasn't it cool that we got such a positive response so quickly. I thinks Matt recognized that there is something special in a group of passionate gardeners putting this design together. I highly doubt if he would have been as interested in the design on one individual.
Gardenbug it's your turn to tempt us with something tasty.

Katy,
Many Solanaceae-family plants are perennial, including peppers, tomatoes and potatoes (native to Mexico, Central and South America). They're subtropical and so are persnickety about light and temperature in the winter, and it's hard to give them what they need in an artificial indoor environment.

At this point, we no longer try to overwinter peppers inside. The aphids alone are deadly, and I don't have the time to carry them to the bathroom, hose them off with the shower and then spray them. At least that is what I have been told by the pepper grower. There are a couple of potted peppers sitting in the garage whose fate is currently unknown to me. There has been talk about experiments involving trying to overwinter peppers in other states than growing in a windowsill.

Since we are on the subject, does anybody have any hints on growing sweet peppers? The hot peppers grow quite well, but sweet peppers seem to have heat/season length problems here.

Gardenbug must be busy so Mad_gallica can you pick a veggie. Sorry I have no idea how to successfully grow sweet peppers in NE my one attempt was pathetic but I will say my CSA has had a very good pepper crop this year. Hmm stuffed peppers for dinner. kt

Sorry, I started planting bulbs and also went out to French Club last night!
I grew sweet peppers this summer, as I do every year. Lots and lots of them...as can be seen from that harvest photo I posted above. They like it hot, like eggplants and artichokes.
So we still have room for more vegetables? I must ponder a few moments. Well why not those radishes I wanted before? The kids would enjoy them because they are quick to grow. Personally I like the French Breakfast Radish, as I lived in France when I was small and we ate radish and butter sandwiches there. An acquired taste, but I love them still, especially if I can find good French Bread for them!
There are many other varieties, including winter sown types. Check below.

A radish sandwich. I'll have to suggest that to my DH, who has been bringing back endless bunches of different kinds of radishes from the local farm stand.

For my vegetable, red leaf lettuce.

Ok now we need the help of all the NE forum farmer types I have no idea how the below veggies overlap or share space in the garden. When you plant a fall crop are you starting those veggies in the fall or do they need to be started in the spring or summer. Below is our list to date should we break this down by season? How do you farmers rotate your crops? kt

Clematis 'Polish Spirit' - Vtskier
Turnips - Cady
Rhubarb - Mad Gal
Spinach 'Prickly-seeded ' - kt
Carrots 'Early (Scarlet) Horn' - Bug
Tomato 'Early Cascade' - Nhbabs
Peas 'Sugar Snap' Tee Pee - Cady
Beans - green, yellow and purple with Dill - Mad Gal
Basil 'Lettuce leaf' - nhbabs
Fennel - Florence - kt
Asparagus - Vtskiers
Apple 'Golden Russet', espaliered - Martie
Eggplant - Bug
Swiss Chard 'Ruby Glow' - Cady
Onions - Martie
Cherry Tomatoes - Vtskier
Garlic Nhbabs
Globe Artichoke - kt
half-dozen sweet bells if they have freezer space for winter use, 4 'Mexi-bells' if seed were still available (slightly warm, wonderful for salsa which I put up in dozens of pint jars each year), 2 Jalapeños, a 'Cayenne' and 3 'Thai' peppers for both heat and their beautiful, compact size. - Solana
French Breakfast Radish - Bug
Red Leaf Lettus - Mad Gal

Two veggie beds were included to accomodate four different planting cycles. It makes it a lot easier to care for. All like-season plants are in the same place so that you're not running from one end of the garden to the other to look for stuff.

With careful planning, companion planting can happen, too.

I did this and had seeds and/or plants in the ground from March to mid-November. We had lettuce on April 17 or so. The last of the winter squash was used fresh from the garden at Thanksgiving.

Just an idea, but a real time saver.

Martie

Today would be a fine day to plant the Clematis Polish Spirit. It is a good idea to place the support for it at planting time. Mine grows through a 6 foot tall obelisk along with C.Prince Charles.
The same rules for transplanting a clematis from the FAQ section apply to planting a new plant. It's all about digging that hole! See below.

Here's the obelisk with the two clematis, with asparagus to the left- in mid July.
{{gwi:171715}}

hi all,
lurking her for several weeks. I had knee surgery, which set me back. Glad I did it after the Martha's Vinyard weekend, which I think about everyday.

I'm sure I missed it, but what are we mulching this gigantic vegetable garden with? I know there's there is lots of compost available, but will the heavy feeders need anything additional? if it a product for sale, what will it be? And how are we controlling for slug damage just when those beatuiful heirloom tomatoes are ripening in late August and there's five days of rain?

If these questions are off the mark, just ignore and keep designing. I'm having fun watching, but checked out after the tomatoes and basil!
idabean/Marie

Martie,
Great idea about the different planting beds it certainly would simplify things for us. Now can someone tell us from our list of veggies what veggie should go in what bed? I warned you I know nothing about vegetable gardening...do they all grow their own cans too!
Gardenbug your clematis is outstanding thank you for the link it was very helpful as I have two that need to be moved. I thought it was telling that your C. Prince Charles which is lavender would clash in a big way with my C. Princess Diana which is bright pink!
Marie I have been thinking about you and I'm happy to hear that you are on the mend. I am guessing that you are spending many long and boring hours doing physical therapy. Well now that is going to change your name is now in the hat and you can daydream about our kitchen garden and what a trouble maker you are putting slugs on our plants all while doing leg lifts!
I still have some emails out to software designers if I get any more responses would anyone else be interested in plugging our garden into design software? It may be the perfect opportunity for us to answered that all too often asked question "Whats the best design software for me to use?" kt

A confusing start to the day, with Idabean also being Marie. That's fine, I just needed a quick adjustment!
DH is off playing hockey with his Sunday morning gang. It is SOOO very soggy out, slug weather for sure. Yet, frost and flurries are expected for the next few days, and so bulb planting is postponed still longer. Sigh! Perhaps Wednesday and Thursday will be the days for gardening...while workmen are here waterproofing the basement?
As to clashing clematis: I don't believe that is possible personally. I think they all look terrific together. The only worry I have is mixing pruning groups!
Here are the two that worry you:
http://www.clematis.hull.ac.uk/new-clemdetail.cfm?dbkey=530
http://www.clematis.hull.ac.uk/new-clemdetail.cfm?dbkey=37
In my garden, Prince Charles is more blue than lavender.
In terms of personalities, certainly Charles and Diana are a difficult combination! If you want to make the situation more complex, you could add the following:(both pruning group 2)
http://www.clematis.hull.ac.uk/new-clemdetail.cfm?dbkey=382
http://www.clematis.hull.ac.uk/new-clemdetail.cfm?dbkey=461
Enough mischief from me...
Later,
'bug

Although not what I wanted to hear nor do I agree but I thought I would share this response to my software design email. I am still hoping to hear from a few more.

Katy: Your project is much too complex for any software to map out for you. The Garden Master CD is a great source for creating a single garden (or multiple gardens) with one planting scheme for the entire garden. It teaches a specific method of growing that is extremely productive, and includes info on freeze dates, and a plant database. It includes two gardening books and 9 manuals, and has lessons and a short video of Dr. Mittleider himself creating a soil-bed garden, weeding, watering, and pruning tomatoes.
Best of success in your project
1
Jim Kennard, President
Food For Everyone Foundation
www.foodforeveryone.org

Another response. Any suggestions to software companies you might have heard good things about?

Dear Katy:
Thank you for your letter. You have a very nice list of plants for the garden. Unfortunately, Burpee no longer offers gardening software. We had stopped carrying the product about 5 years ago.
I am sorry that we cannot be of assistance at this time.
Sincerely,
Marsha
Customer Service Department
W. Atlee Burpee & Co.

runktrun:

The responses don't surprise me because IMHO, trying to design an everchanging area on something as static as a computer doesn't work. As gardeners we recognize what we need but it's hard to translate that into software.

SO -- Also IMHO, that's where the fun begins!! We know where we are so far and we have some great visuals to help. We also have the ability to "see" when we start placing plants or we wouldn't be gardeners.

So, what garden's next?? Best to all, and stay dry!!

Martie

I thought that the design software would help us set limits on numbers of plants per area but since it has yet to arrive in the mail perhaps Martie is right we should continue on so we dont loose too much momentum. I still however would like to plug our choices into a digital design and will share my attempts and ask for guidance with that as we go along. Below is the list of chosen plants for the vegetable beds although still in the kitchen garden lets move on to herbs (again another area of gardening that I know nothing about). This game is a creation of mutual effort so if you feel strongly about one thing or another or have a different vision please let us know. Should we move the fennel, garlic, and onions to the herb garden or are they considered veggies?

The herb garden is 30 x 30 which will allow for nice wide pathways and easy access to plants.

Clematis 'Polish Spirit' - Vtskier
Turnips - Cady
Rhubarb - Mad Gal
Spinach 'Prickly-seeded ' - kt
Carrots 'Early (Scarlet) Horn' - Bug
Tomato 'Early Cascade' - Nhbabs
Peas 'Sugar Snap' Tee Pee - Cady
Beans - green, yellow and purple with Dill - Mad Gal
Basil 'Lettuce leaf' - nhbabs
Fennel - Florence - kt
Asparagus - Vtskiers
Apple 'Golden Russet', espaliered - Martie
Eggplant - Bug
Swiss Chard 'Ruby Glow' - Cady
Onions - Martie
Cherry Tomatoes - Vtskier
Garlic Nhbabs
Globe Artichoke - kt
half-dozen sweet bells if they have freezer space for winter use, 4 'Mexi-bells' if seed were still available (slightly warm, wonderful for salsa which I put up in dozens of pint jars each year), 2 Jalapeños, a 'Cayenne' and 3 'Thai' peppers for both heat and their beautiful, compact size. - Solana
French Breakfast Radish - Bug
Red Leaf Lettus - Mad Gal

Cady its your turn to choose an herb.

My pick is curly-leaf parsley. Not just for culinary use, but to attract tiger swallowtail butterflies, whose larvae nibble the leaves (plant enough to share).