Climbers are difficult to protect. The whole point to a climber is for the rose to get big, and it won't do that if it has to start over again every spring. So the normal (for a lot of people) idea that crown hardiness is the overreaching aim, is trumped by cane hardiness in climbers, and the reality that it is extremely difficult to protect canes.

Whether or not a Cl. Cecile Brunner should be hardy for you isn't a question I can answer. The shrub version was toast here after a mild winter (lows around zero), which doesn't make me optimistic. However, I'd just see what happens. If it doesn't make it, or dies back and doesn't regrow adequately, there are alot of climbers that should be fine where you are. You can just replace it with one of those.

I don't know about Cecile Brunner, but I'm in a similar zone to you, and I have climbing Zepherine Drouhins, and Dorothy Perkins (ID uncertain) that get no protection and don't seem to need it.

Claire

I'm also in a similar zone. Your rose should be all right.

Another thought: you want to make sure the canes are secure so that they don't whip around in winter winds; rubbing themselves raw or breaking.

In my coastal area, the winter winds are worse than winter cold - for every thing, plant or animal.

Claire

A few days ago I suggested making sure the canes are secure so the winds don't whip them around. That's all well and good, so long as the support is secure.

THE WINDS JUST BLEW MY ROSE ARCH DOWN!!!!!!!! The roses themselves (two inherited Dorothy Perkins) are probably fine, but I may have to cut them off to get the arch back up - or replace it.

Claire (waiting for the winds to die down - they forecast 2 to 5 hours more of nasty gusts)

I have a climbing "Altissimo" for over 10 years. It gets no protection and is totally cane hardy. It is well supported against a fence that is atop a wall and over 12 feet high so keeping it from whipping around in the wind is the main concern. I am also in zone 6b.

Claire, I feel your pain.

A couple of years ago, I had a very large Explorer rose go over. It was tied to a locust pole, and after ten years, the pole had rotted and broke off at ground level. This whole thing was right next to the path to the back door, so it couldn't be ignored. I had already been eyeing some nice black iron obelisks, so finding a replacement support was easy. Getting the support in there was a totally different story.

That's a spectacular rose, Bill!

Like your rose, mad_gallica, my downed rose arch blocked a path and some bird feeders, so I had to deal with it today while it was still relatively warm and not too windy. I knew the metal support was going to go sooner or later - I was just hoping for later.

After failing to raise the arch, which would just put off the problem, I tried to cut the roses off the arch and separate them. I was hoping to pull the two roses one to each side of the path and get some sort of new supports. Well, two big roses that have grown together on an arch don't separate. At least not in my hands.

I ended up cutting them down to a few feet and throwing the cut canes over the coastal bank. Maybe they'll root there in the spring. In the meantime I'll figure out what I want to do for a support for the remaining two rooted roses. Probably not another arch, it became too overgrown and too hard to keep it clear enough to walk under. Sure was beautiful though.

I'm going to really miss the rose arch next spring; both from outside and the view from the kitchen window. It was a great staging area for birds too.

Now I just have to figure out what to do with the roses. These were originally planted by my mother, found by me as tiny sprigs in a bed of lily of the valley, nurtured and moved twice, so I'm not giving up on them.

Claire

Ohhh claire! Good luck!

Claire,
Thanks for the nice comment! By the way that arch is spectacular! I can understand why you'll miss it and the views. Have you considered a larger and more substantial structure? Maybe a nice wooden trellis that's higher and wider? Of course cost is an issue with such a solution. Or maybe a pair of obelisks flanking the pathway? At least you could keep them separate that way. Hope they come back strong for you.

Bill:

I'm on about no. 387 of possibilities. I'm over the cringing whenever I look at the arch, and I'm sort of rethinking the whole concept. Instead of a tangled mass of thorny canes, I'm now seeing two individual rather orderly roses (not orderly for long, of course) and I'm enjoying not having to stoop over to walk under the arch and still getting my hat and arm grabbed by loose canes.

I kind of like the new open view but I want to keep the roses in it, just more along the sides.

This is roughly the same view as the first blooming arch photo. It's a corridor along the side of the house looking to the front. The green containers mark the location of the arch feet.

From the front of the house, you see the path turning and see the tool shed (which needs a coat of paint). I just noticed that a wisteria seed pod is dangling at the top of the photo. I took the shot by the wisteria pseudo-standard.

The arch was a tease to bring you to the back of the house which is a whole different animal with the view of the bay.

This corridor is also a work space with a hose bib and the tool shed.

I thought of a nice wooden trellis, but I would want it to continue down the corridor at least part way and that's big money. Or even do the whole corridor as an arbor, and that's bigger money than I want to spend right now.

You're right that the pathway needs to be flanked by something, and obelisks are a real possibility. I'm now wondering whether to go high again, or wide as in a hedge that turns the corner on both sides and continues down the corridor. High looks great from my window, but low makes it easier to see the birdfeeders in the winter. Luckily I have all winter to think about this.

It sounds like making lemonade when the wind deals you a lemon, but I think the roses are better off with a new start. There was no room for them to grow up there on the arch and I couldn't bring myself to prune them fiercely.

Claire (who is open to suggestions)

Claire,
Seeing the second view that looks down the pathway I can see why you might want to keep that view of the bay unobstructed! What about a pergola with four (or more?) posts that starts where the arch was but goes in the other direction, that is to say away from the side pathway and the bay? It looks like there would be room there, and from the lushness and fullness of the growth in the original picture, the roses would certainly cover (and probably NEED) a substantial support. I can't be sure from the photos how much room there is, but you could site a bench under the pergola facing the bay........and sit under the roses and look down the pathway to the water. You have a great place!

Bill

Bill:

That's an idea I hadn't thought of - moving away from the house and the corridor. I'm not sure I have room; I have to look at it and I'd have to move some plants and birdfeeders. Something to think about. Thanks!

I wouldn't set it up to sit in to look at the bay - I have a much better view from my beloved deck on the bay side of the house, where I eat every meal when the weather allows (I've posted photos of that view many times and don't want to wear out my welcome).

In the context of this thread, I've recently planted Zepherine Drouhin roses which are beginning to climb up trellises on the edge of the deck. Should be beautiful in a year or two.

It's dark and rainy now - tomorrow I'll take a look at the area away from the path.

Claire

Claire,
I'm sure those new roses you planted will look great! I'm hoping to get an area behind my garage paved and made into a patio area, and I want to have privacy along one side. I'm thinking a fencey-trellisey-pergola thing........not sure what it will look like for sure, but I am thinking some climbing iceberg roses would be nice, and the Gelsemium too. I want a trellis against my newly renovated garage too, and that one I think will be for honeysuckle. And finally when I rebuild the well (a real well about 40 feet deep) I plan on making it somehow climbable by the clematis that's planted next to it already. Big plans for next year. We'll see how they work out!

Here's the clematis:

Clematis "Nelly Moser"

Bill:

Nelly Moser is a a gorgeous clematis - have you tried growing her with some roses? Maybe the white climbing Iceberg?

It sounds like you're going to have a lot of fun with trellises, but that well sounds like a fantastic opportunity. Does it echo? Also, have you decided what kind of paving you're going to use for the patio? I spent one summer laying a tumbled bluestone path, which I love dearly, but there are so many options available for all tastes.

Winter is a fine time for making plans (and unfortunately, a fine time for organizing the cellar, which I just started).

Claire

Claire,
I hear you about the cellar! And my attic.........not to mention painting the living and dining rooms, and so then of course new carpet, and that lead to new drapes, and why not new furniture in the living room!

Anyway, I'm not settled on the paving, but a neutral color would be my style. I can always add plenty of color with the plants and pots, etc. And I can change those whenever I like. It's all still in the planning stage in my head. Once I know what I want then the challenge is to find somebody to do the work the right way. Seems harder and harder to find qualified "professionals" these days.

Bill

Great thread!

We planted a climbing Golden Showers next to an arbor that my husband built in early summer. Because we live along a river near the sound, winds do roar here in the winter. I'm hoping my new rose does well.... it's STILL cranking out flowers and here it is, December 15. Of course, tonight we expect the temp. to plunge.

If my yellow rose does bite the dirt, I may look for Climbing Altissmo, Bill. That is one beautiful rose... bold color and shape plus I'm encouraged about its longevity.

Bill, how big has it grown? I'm even wondering how that rose would be on the opposite side of my arbor across from Golden Showers. Hmmmm. Time to look in the catalogues.

Then again, looking at Claire's pics, I think... yikes! These climbing roses really take off when they are planted in a happy place.

Molie

Molie,

My Altissimo is over ten years old, and the tallest canes are about twelve feet tall. As you can see the flowers are single, but they can be five inches or more across. The simple flower form, size, velvety red color and that prominent gold boss in the center make quite a statement! I first saw this in the trial gardens in Portland, Oregon and I had to have one! It's a strong grower and blooms all season.

Bill

So my Cecil Brunner climbing rose that I planted last spring not only survived winter (it was almost evergreen) but is now rapidly leafing out. Is there anything I should do now? Do I apply fertilizer designed for roses now? I want to encourage as many blooms as possible.

Yes, rockman; apply fertilizer now. Clip off dead ends of canes, if any. Loosely anchor any canes somewhat horizontally, if possible. That will encourage blooms along their lengths.

Carol

Thanks, Carol. I'm also following this thread info. and your suggestions to rockman.

I've cut the ends off dead canes and tied the canes across the arbor using a stretch plastic tape that I bought at Lowe's. And now, I guess, it's time to fertilize.

Claire, how long does your Z. Drouhin bloom? I've heard that it has a short blooming season, but that color is so beautiful that I'm tempted. Hmmmm....time to check out the rose and clematis forums.
Molie

Molie: My Z. Drouhin roses start the main flush a week or two after Memorial Day and are winding down by the Fourth of July. After that there will be sporadic rebloom, usually only a few blossoms at a time, pretty much until frost. I just checked and I have a photo of a blossom taken on November 12, 2008.

Zepherine Drouhin on Nov. 12, 2008

It's not much of a show during the summer, but the individual blooms are lovely and very fragrant. A plus is that the rose is nearly thornless; a negative is that black spot can be a problem.

Claire