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to prune or not to prune...roses

Posted by Juliet5 z6 NJ (My Page) on
Wed, Feb 23, 05 at 15:05

I'm itching to go to work in the garden!! I noticed last week that many of my roses (the rugosas, climbers and modern shrubs) had bulging buds and a few had signs of leaves just starting to come out on the buds (if you looked really, really hard - which I did, since there's not much else to look at in the garden right now!). Also, our forsythia is about to bloom. This makes me think its time to prune! Am I crazy?? After all, there is still snow on the ground and the forecast shows a chance for more snow this week. But I have been doing my rose pruning in late February the last few years and it has turned out fine.
Do I need to be talked out of this or should I go for it?? I was kinda thinking I would tackle the rugosas, climbers and modern shrubs and wait a week or so to tackle the hybrid teas...


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: to prune or not to prune...roses

You might find this book interesting:
A Year of Roses by Stephen Scanniello who use to be in charge of the Cranford Rose Garden in Brooklyn.
In it, he gives a schedule about pruning roses and he starts certain types in the winter. I was planning on starting soon as it is almost March and my roses usually start budding.


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RE: to prune or not to prune...roses

Juliet,
go for it.

However, I would caress, rather than tackle, a rugosa.

where in NJ? Loretta, where are you?
stephen scanniello


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RE: to prune or not to prune...roses

Loretta, that sounds like a very interesting book, thanks for the tip.

Unfortunately, I waffled and then we got the Nor'Easter... I'm not feeling quite so eager beaver about it now that there's 6 inches of snow on the ground. But I've looked at the forecast and I think Sunday may be the day. Given that we're supposed to get some more snow, I'm going to leave the less hardy teas but give everyone else their annual haircuts.

Yes, Stephen, I will employ a kinder, gentler touch with the rugosas. The New Dawns growing along our split rail fence by the road are another story. I'm going to give them a real overhaul - and they will no doubt give as much as they get, or more! I was too gentle with them the last 2 years (or was I too faint of heart to tackle their tangled thorny mass...) and they're showing their appreciation by growing out into the road. If they continue in this fashion soon there will be no through traffic!

I'm in the Summit area. How 'bout you?


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RE: to prune or not to prune...roses

Juliet,
Your garden sounds exactly like my old garden in New Providence! I moved out of New Providence (just the other side of Division Ave) two years ago leaving my beloved 100+ rose garden behind. It too had many Austin roses, peonies, 6ft. oriental lillies, giant blue hostas, a traffic stopping tall purple crape myrtle, many Stella D' Oro daylillies. Everything you mentioned except for the lambs ear. I had a couple of New Dawns on a split rail at the curb and had to prune them at least 2 or 3 times in the summer to stop them from grabbing onto people and dogs! It sounds exactly like yours! But I didn't sell my house to someone named Juliet! Could this be the same garden??

Stephen,
I love your books! I've spent a lot of time going through 'Climbing Roses' the past two weeks as I'm placing orders to start my new rose garden. I just ordered Cadenza a couple days ago after checking what you wrote about it. I grew up in Brooklyn and I loved visiting the Cranford Rose Garden. I haven't been there in several years since I had a couple of children but I'm hoping to get there this year!


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RE: to prune or not to prune...roses

Hey Jersey gardeners,
I garden in Barnegat and have an apartment in Jersey City, downtown. I hear that there's a new rose book out any day now called Rose Companions. Since I can't advertise here, I can't tell you I wrote it. Cadenza's a wonderful rose. Some nurseries sell it as 'Annie's Red'.
Juliet, you can be as rough with New Dawn and the rugosas as you like, only you will spill blood - good for the roses! I'm hoping to get some pruning done this weekend before the next round of weather comes in. I started with rugosas last week. My ramblers are out of control.
stephen


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RE: to prune or not to prune...roses

Stephen,
I might just be the first person to buy it! Will any NJ bookstores have signed copies on hand? I've seen conflicting info on how tall Cadenza will get - I think Chamblee's and ARE list it at 6 to 8' and that wonderful book about Climbing Roses says it gets to 15' x 12' at the BBG. Does it grow better/bigger in cooler climates? What do you think I should expect here in NJ? I haven't had a rose in my garden in more than two years now...but next year I will again have my hands full with pruning. I always waited until the 3rd week in March, now I know I can get started a bit earlier!


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RE: to prune or not to prune...roses

Stephen,
One more post for you..I see Amazon has the new must have rose book already listed on their site. It shows the published date as Feb. 21 and shipping within 3 to 5 weeks. If you haven't checked this out yet you might be interested (amused) to see that a couple of their 'used and new' partners have it listed as well. One of them says "'Thousands Sold!".


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RE: to prune or not to prune...roses

yikes,
March 6ish.

cadenza is very upright, good against a wall.

where is your garden?

ss


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RE: to prune or not to prune...roses

My garden is in Chester (Morris County). It was just mud, rocks and some mature oaks, beech and tulip trees. I had deer fencing installed in the fall as we are deep in the heart of deer country. Then got started with peonies, hydrangea some ornamental trees late in the fall. The roses will begin to arrive at the end of March and continue into May. I ordered much of my very ambitious wish list so I have some very busy weeks ahead. Cadenza is just one of the roses your book enticed me to order! The first phase will be the climbing and tall shrub roses and then in the fall and beyond the small shrub roses and all the perennials I can fit. My highest priority in selecting roses is disease resistance, I stick with a non-toxic organic approach so baking soda and soap is about all I'll do for disease/pest control. I love to mix roses with all sorts of perennials so I look forward to your new book for ideas! You must tell me if there will be signed copies around...


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RE: to prune or not to prune...roses

hmm,
possibly in my garden in Barnegat

stephen


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RE: to prune or not to prune...roses

Carol - I think we may be talking about the very same garden!!! Wow - if we are, that is very exciting! I would love to chat about the garden. My name is Lisa but when I signed up on gardenweb I used my sister's name for some reason (I guess an over abundance of caution).
I'm going out to prune today, snow be darned. Hopefully I will return with only a few minor battle scars!!


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RE: to prune or not to prune...roses

Oh well,
some more winter mulch.
ss


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RE: to prune or not to prune...roses

I did manage to tame the lovely beasts (aka New Dawns) on Sunday. There is now a debris pile in our side yard about 4 feet high and twice as long. Would hate to fall into that prickly mess...there is a very good chance I would never emerge. My feet got cold standing in the snow and I have scratches from top to bottom (several layers of clothing did not thwart the thorns). The deep one in the center of my nose is the most attractive. This morning it is quite nice to look out and see the garden tucked cozily under a blanket of white.


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RE: to prune or not to prune...roses

Today I pruned 'Autumn Sunset'. It 's climbing up through our Blue Atlas Cedar, this year the rose should be blooming near the top of the tree, probably 20' high.

stephen


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RE: to prune or not to prune...roses

Well you try to be good and stay away from the forums a few days and do what your suppose to do and look what you miss!
Hello Stephen. Its very nice to meet you. I've noticed you lurking on the forums once or twice.

I try to grow roses in Pequannock. I was a little overzealous when I first started buying and now I have too many and certainly my rose garden is not a good example right now. So if you ever see me post pictures of my roses, you can be sure of closeups and short views!
The Cranford Rose Garden inspired a few of my purchases. I got the Garland rose which I had intended to train as you did but we decided to keep that part of the yard open. So I had to move it as it was getting very big. I think I killed it.
My New Dawn is most likely going to have to go. It is in the wrong place. It is too thorny and I am afraid the kids will fall into it. It was run over by a flatbed once and is still one of my healthiest roses.
Well, I keep saying I am going to start pruning but there is always something else to do. Perhaps today.


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RE: to prune or not to prune...roses

I LIVE IN MANAHAWKIN AND PURCHASED SEVERAL CLIMBING ROSE BUSHES TO COVER MY FENCE AND ARBOR IN THE SPRING OF 2003. I'M PETRIFIED AT THE THOUGHT OF PRUNING BUT I WANT TO DO THE RIGHT THING. I HAVE 2 OR 3 VERY LONG CANES TO GO WITH MY EQUALLY AS OLD 2 OR 3 STEMMED CLIMATIS.
THANKS, JOAN


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RE: to prune or not to prune...roses

Forgive me, Loretta, I can't resist playing devil's advocate for that imperilled New Dawn! How are you ever going to find another rose that is utterly impervious to subzero temperatures, shrugs off blackspot, grows large enough to hide that motor boat your neighbor parks in his driveway and yet, in striking contrast to its flat-bed resistant growth and malicious thorns, produces mind-boggling quantities of such perfectly sweet and delicately tinted blooms? That said, don't send it to me, I've got my hands quite full with the pair I've got!!

Stephen, Your Autumn Sunset sounds out of this world. I'd sure love to see it in person ... weren't you mentioning that you wanted to give the NJ forum members a garden tour, or did I dream that ... hint hint hint ;)


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RE: to prune or not to prune...roses

Well, New Dawn and its look-alikes is the ultimate cottage rose, isn't it? It has that look that you want on your front porch. The leaves are glossy and healthy but I have a couple of others that are doing very well for me that are nicer to me like Heritage, La Marne and Playboy. Playboy is thorny to but grows in good shape - but I guess these aren't climbers. Although Heritage threw out some long canes last year and looks posed to climb my neighbor's oak.
I did picture New Dawn and the Garland possibly growing up a tree but the truth is, my kids run around the trees so they would be exposed to the thorns. Then I felt sorry for the squirrels (even though they are very mischievious)and some areas would introduce thorns into my neighbors yards - they own the fences. I did try to start the Garland up a few tall lilacs that are not doing a good job of covering my neighbors metal shed. Perhaps the roots are recovering and that one will take off. Maybe I can mix in New Dawn too but I will never be able to weed back there again!
I know in the end, I will have to find a spot. I have problems shovel pruning - even forsythias.
Meanwhile Sombreiul and Pink Perpetue just linger, Eden and Polka always die back. Alchemist/alchemyst takes forever, Veilchenblau being almost thornless, has a special place in my heart.


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RE: to prune or not to prune...roses

Loretta, Hopefully you will find a new home for your New Dawn, somewhere it can be its incorrigibly rampant but lovely self!
I am fond of Heritage, too. In my garden it stays politely within its bounds, and it lacks the oversized hook-like thorns that populate older New Dawn canes.
I know what you mean about hating to s.p. I either do it on the spur of the moment in a fit of anger, or else I waffle indefinitely. I have this stubbornly optimistic streak, probably a common malady amongst our fellow gardeners...


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RE: to prune or not to prune...roses

hmm,
maybe trade in the kids?.......just kidding!
My climbers( including shrubs I force to climb): Autumn Sunset, Mermaid, Veilchenblau, Alberic Barbier, Leontine Gervais, Alexandre Girault, Fairmount Pink Rambler, Sally Holmes, American Pillar, Sombreuil, Aloha, Mme. Plantier, Altissimo, Golden Arctic, Compassion, R. eglanteria, White Cap, Casa Blanca, Gem of the Prairies, Summer Wine, Valentine's Day (brand new for next year), Excelsa, Belle Lyonnaise, South Carolina Noisette, Priness de Nassau, All Ablaze; Baltimore Belle, Paul's Himalayan Musk, Graham Stuart Thomas.
Believe it or not, I don't have alot of space, a modest suburban lot, old house in downtown Barnegat. Yep, it gets crowded.
I'll be pruning on 3/26 and 3/27. If you bring food and drink, your welcome to join in (may have books to sign too)
I buy many of my climbers from a wholesale distributer in NJ, he now grows many great Pickering roses and others - I can find out where his retail outlets are in your areas. In Barnegat, I highly recommend "Anything Grows" on route 9, south towards manahawkin.
Joan, courage!
My address: 671 E. Bay ave. Barnegat. house is partially painted.
ss


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RE: to prune or not to prune...roses

That sounds great except that it is Easter weekend!


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RE: to prune or not to prune...roses

so,
bring pizza rustica.
ss


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RE: to prune or not to prune...roses

Pizza rustica and ... well, if we continue to get more of the same lousy weather, it seems hot cocoa might be best, but otherwise maybe a nice Chianti!
Loretta, Carol and others - if you're up for a road trip early that Sunday afternoon (1:00?), I'll drive from the Summit area.
Stephen, if we see the pruning, you know that means we're going to want to see the blooming!


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RE: to prune or not to prune...roses

There is no way I can make it on Easter. That is a big family get together weekend. Saturday would be a big maybe but I think my husband's family might be expecting me to cook this year. I may have said something around Christmas. That means cleaning on Saturday. Which is of course what I would rather be doing...NOT!


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RE: to prune or not to prune...roses

of course, blooming is part of the deal


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RE: to prune or not to prune...roses

Hello NJ gardeners...I am such a newbie that I am not worthy of even putting my 2 cents in here ...but...I have a climbing rose I planted last year and it grew tall and taller but never once came into any kind of bloom.To tell you the truth it looked sort of well...ugly...sitting there all long canes and nothing else..I know it's in a good spot since everything else grew OK there...will I get blooms this second year?? Here's to hopeing


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RE: to prune or not to prune...roses

Hey newbie,
which climber is it?
It's very likely that you will get blooms this june. Often newly planted climbers will produce more growth than flowers the first year.
Prune by cutting back the tips of each branch, a few inches. Any branches that are shorter than your arm's length, shorten those as well to a few inches.
Do you have the rose trained on a fence, wall,or lattice? or is it growing free? If you've trained it, make sure the canes are as spread out along the fence or lattice, as much as possible.
the more you can curve or bend the branches, the more blooms you'll get.
Where in NW jersey are you?

stephen scanniello


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RE: to prune or not to prune...roses

Steprose..I'm in Mahwah. Never heard of it??? Me neither until I moved here....My rose is growing free altho it is still under snow so I guess I won't even know if it survived the winter or not until April. Some of you other rose devotees have written of buds and new growth all ready...I guess NJ really does have a wide range of climates because almost NOTHING is doing anything here yet...I know because I look every day.


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RE: to prune or not to prune...roses

I learned to ski in Mahwah, at Camp Gaw. I grew up in River Edge, southeast of Mahwah.
NJ has at least 3 zones, I already have spring bulbs showing some color in Barnegat.
Snow is good winter protection for roses, but sometimes the weight of the snow can break canes.
Once you can see the rose, start pruning. If you can tie long canes to stakes in the ground, giving the rose a "skirt" type look, you should get a decent bloom this June.
come on down to Barnegat for a visit (exit 67).


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RE: to prune or not to prune...roses

Hi Folks:

Just jumping in here. I have a place on LBI (Barnegat Light) where I have both New Dawn, Awakening (a sport of ND) and Autumn Sunset. They all do well here. Question - anyone try David Austin roses in this area? I am tempted to try William Shakespear 2000 here but leary of the black spot factor. Any feedback?

Stephen: I agree Anything Grows is a good spot for roses and she (the owner) is very knowledgeable about plants. She is a little pricey - only drawback!


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RE: to prune or not to prune...roses

Ambridge Rose, Evelyn, Heritage, Perdita and Mary Rose are living in my garden (among other Austins). They get some black spot but its not too horrible (you can stand to look at them without wincing). Unfortunately the local deer like them and so do the Japanese beatles. They get a lot of frost damage but seem to come back strong.


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RE: to prune or not to prune...roses

Could somebody tell me how to find a definitive description of New Dawn?

I inherited a beautiful and fragrant climbing rose with my house here in Tewksbury. It's a multi-flora in a pale pink color. I presume it's a old rose as the house is close to 60 years old and the original owner seems to have had a portion of the property professionally landscaped.

I've looked at pictures on the web of "New Dawn" and while they look similar to what I have, I'd hesitate to say that mine is, in fact, New Dawn.

TIA


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RE: to prune or not to prune...roses

NJT:

The theory I have read over at the Rose Forum is that there are 2 different versions (for lack of a better word) of New Dawn. The flower is pretty much the same but the only difference seems to be whether it repeats or not. Have you tried Help Me Find?

Good luck!

Carol


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RE: to prune or not to prune...roses

Carol, I don't want to seem illiterate, but what's "Help Me Find?" I know I'm getting old and my eyes are bad, but I don't see it. :)

And I was somewhat looking for an easy out asking here about New Dawn rather than the Rose forum - too lazy to weed through all the very helpful and informative posts.


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RE: to prune or not to prune...roses

Try helpmefind.com and look for New Dawn under roses.


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RE: to prune or not to prune...roses

New Dawn info from Helpmefind.com.

Sigh, I'm about a month behind in pruning, I usually start the second week in March. I won't even start until Sunday. And who knows when all of these new ones will get planted! Boy, am I sorry I missed pruning at Stephen's, I'll have to take a look over here more often!


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RE: to prune or not to prune...roses

I'm still pruning, too. This is the first dry weekend after many wet ones, I can't wait to finally finish my pruning. I have a wall of Mermaid mixed with American Pillar, entwined with Alberic Barbier. No doubt, there will be a trail of blood by sunday!

stephen


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RE: to prune or not to prune...roses

Ah - I've tamed the beasts and only one major scratch.

stephen


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RE: to prune or not to prune...roses

I'm just about finished and they look great. Very little dieback here on LBI, just plenty on water from all of the rain. What a great weekend - finally!


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RE: to prune or not to prune...roses

I'm still at it today (sunday) if you're still on LBI.

671 E Bay Ave, Barnegat

ss


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RE: to prune or not to prune...roses

Stephen, if you're finished, congrats!! It was a wonderful weekend to be outside. Hope you didn't get sunburned!

I've been finished for a couple weeks but I'm still healing - I've got a large thorn still working its way out of my thumb. Ouch.

This weekend I got out the shovel and played in the dirt, digging up perennials and moving them around (to what I *hope* will be better spots), and dividing daylillies.

I also hit the local nurseries for the first time this year. Didn't buy much. Yes, that means I did buy a few things. They always get me with those $4 small pot perennials.

My 10 month old walked in the grass in bare feet for the first time this weekend - now it really doesn't get much better than that!


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RE: to prune or not to prune...roses

Stephen:

I will stop by sometime during the spring when I am over doing my nursery tour. I start with the ones on Bay Avenue and work my way up Route 9 until I get to Barnegat. That usually would be around mid-morning - I wouldn't come too early. Wasn't it a great weekend? The island was trying to dry out after the rain. My roses are trimmed and I should get to feeding them next weekend. Maybe the following weekend I will start my nursery tour. I feel happy since I found I clematis I thought for sure was dead growing like a champ!


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RE: to prune or not to prune...roses

Well, I did it. I cut down my New Dawn and the promise of hundreds of flowers. It was very difficult. It took 3 lawn bags and I still have not dug out the roots - that is so final. Turned out it rooted in several places so I have the option of nursing some of those babies if I find another spot...hardly bled.


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RE: to prune or not to prune...roses

I'll be away this weekend (16th). Back in Barnegat the weekends of the 23, 30, and may 7. Coffee is usuallyon around 8am. Sometimes the car isn't in the driveway, but I may still be there - check around back, or under a climbing rose!

stephen


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RE: to prune or not to prune...roses

Stephen:

I will probably stop by one of those weekends. Thanks for the invite!

Carol


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