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Rose Pruning Demo

Posted by diane_nj 7a/6b (My Page) on
Mon, Mar 16, 09 at 15:12

Hello Everyone,

The Jersey Shore Rose Society will hold our annual rose pruning demonstration on Saturday, April 4, starting at 10:00 AM, Wampum Park, Rt. 35 S (just south of the intersection of Rt 537/Ft. Momnmouth), Eatontown, NJ. This is a hands-on demonstration, bring your gloves and pruners. We will be pruning the rose bed at Wampum Park. This is a no-spray bed (not treated with fungicides), so you'll be able to see disease resistant roses that work well in the area. Consulting Rosarians will be available to answer other rose growing questions.

Hope to see you there!


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Rose Pruning Demo

My father has one 35 year old red floribunda that was defoliated last year by both black spot and deer. It's got 2 inner canes that are mostly black but I'm hesitant to prune them out since that bush is one of my father's pride and joy.

Black spot was highly destructive last year because I didn't realize sprinkler heads had been rotated when guys came to restart system in late spring. It took me until late August to figure out the roses were being overhead watered 3 times per week and I had been fighting a losing battle with vigilantly hand picking every black spotted leaf. Adjusted sprinkler heads so they weren't overhead watered anymore and will make sure after guys restart system this year they didn't turn any sprinkler heads aimed right at rose bed!

Do I still have time to do a dormant lime/sulphur treatment on rose bushes to minimize anything that overwintered on canes?

I took off all foliage early winter and mounded compost around base of bushes. Older bushes are grafted but planted 4 new "own root" bushes from Heirloom Roses last May. Ones we chose were all rated as "high disease resistance" but even they can't take overhead watering 3x per week although they fared better than the very old grafted rose bushes!

I used Bayer Advanced All-In-One systemic liquid feed to try to avoid using sprays to treat problems after they occur. Only thing I sprayed on foliage was deer repellant.

Is dormant lime/sulphur treatment considered a no-no in "no-spray" culture? I'm trying to use as many preventative measures as possible so the deer are the worst battle I have to fight over the roses this year.

I don't want overwintered black spot fungus on or around those bushes to start off the growing season.


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RE: Rose Pruning Demo

Sorry, I was in class all weekend...

OK, yes, you still have time for dormant oil/lime sulpher treatment. You will lose any leaves just emerging, but you will get new ones quickly.

Taking off leaves: I usually don't recommend this unless the leaf is falling off. Roses need their leaves to process sunlight, and even a leaf with blackspot is productive as long as there is some green on the leaf.

Bayer Advanced All-In-One is not advised. The problem is that if you are using it to prevent blackspot, it takes 6 weeks (minimum) to become effective, and in that time, blackspot is already present and has taken hold. You have to start blackspot treatment as soon as you prune, and the All-In-One is just not very effective. Also, the insecticide in the product kills earthworms and other beneficials in the soil.

Which varieties did you choose? What Heirloom says is "highly disease resistant" might not be so here in NJ. Blackspot is ALWAYS present. ALWAYS. The trick is to grow varieties that are really resistant (in NJ) or to start your fungicide treatment early (and often).


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RE: Rose Pruning Demo

Bad news on the Bayer Advanced 3-in-1...especially since I just bought another bottle. I had no idea it killed earthworms and other beneficials. That's definitely self-defeating in gardening and I'm glad I never used it on any other plants.

I'd wanted to start feeding with fish emulsion/kelp liquid but wasn't sure if it was appropriate. Also thought I was helping with disease prevention by using systemic Bayer product.

The new "own root" roses weren't a total problem except for the 2 that were on either side of a large 35 year old grafted red floribunda (name unknown). It always has some black spot but was uncontrollable with that overhead watering it took for months.

Unknown (name)old grafted Hybrid Teas farther away from that red floribunda weren't badly hit with black spot.

Bought from Heirloom Roses:

'Mr. Lincoln' (red Hybrid Tea)

Only grew 2-3 tall canes. One bloom had bud blast & deer ate other two blooms. Saw it in bloom at Dearborn and that one had only 2-3 canes.

'Margaret Merril'

This was listed as Hybrid Tea in catalogue but other sites show it as floribunda. No longer on Heirloom's site. It has shape/growth habit of Hybrid Tea. Don't know where my father has order list so can't figure this one out.

'Angel Face' floribunda

(gorgeous lavender color & fast growing unless deer reach it) No longer listed on Heirloom site either. They have something they say "will put 'Angel Face' to shame" which isn't what I'd like to see on a good rose vendor's site.

'Wistful' miniature

Closest to black spotted old red floribunda. Lost all its leaves. Budding out like other bushes so hoping loss of leaves doesn't portend lack of bloom this year. Had a number of blooms with one having bud blast.

When I say "bud blast" that's what I assume occurred because I hand picked the relatively few Japanese Beetles I found on bushes/blooms. I checked them almost every day at least once but could've been thrips or earwigs that I didn't see and/or recognize. I pretty much remove anything that moves on the rose bushes...except for bees. I've seen other pollinators on blooms and don't bother them although some wasps are not friends of butterflies and their larvae. Can't control nature at every turn... just learn to work with it.

I don't remember name of fourth bush we got from Heirloom. Looked through their Hybrid Teas and didn't recognize a name for it.

Diane, thanks for the information.


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RE: Rose Pruning Demo

No hybrid tea is reliably disease resistant here. None. And forget about resistance in the floribunda Angel Face. No way, no how, not in NJ. Sorry, I've lost three of them. Most mauves (purple, lavender) are blackspot magnets. Not Wistful either. Margaret Merrill is a floribunda with hybrid tea form. Also not very resistant. All will require a regular treatment for blackspot. We are having a talk on pesticides at our next rose society meeting (4/25) you are welcome to attend.

Own root (which is what you get from Heirloom) hybrid teas take a long time to establish. I have two in my garden, one has been in >5 years the other about 4 years. Neither is close to being as robust as the grafted plants, but I'm still working on them.

Don't start fertilizing until they fully leaf out.


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RE: Rose Pruning Demo

Diane, is it normal in the trade for vendors to carry a named Rose and then not carry it the next year? It worried me but I guess they go by sales demand.

'Angel Face' is just a beautiful color, though.

Thanks for the clarification on Margaret Merril...thought I'd really misunderstood what we read in the catalogue and online. I read white hybrid teas were more susceptible to thrips but Margaret's 2 blooms opened without event. I was watching for anything amiss.

My father keeps telling me he never babied his grafted rose bushes the way I talk about babying the own root bushes we got from Heirloom. He keeps threatening to pull those 4 out and replace with grafted bushes so he lives long enough to see them larger and full of blooms...LOL.

Thanks for reminder about holding off on feeding. They only have leaf buds now as we have some warmer days and I intended to wait to feed until leaf out.

I've got a number of plants that supposedly attract beneficial insects that I'm arranging in pots all through rose garden. Lavenders, echinacea, agastaches, salvia, calendula and a number of herbs. They'll serve double duty since they're butterfly/hummingbird nectar plants which I need to have in full sun south facing location.

Just got my first germination under lights in the basement and I'm excited. Now just have to get them through to May 15th for planting out.

I knew NJ wasn't great for Hybrid Teas but figured my father had them for all these years and I believed the "VDR" (very disease resistant) ratings.

I'll enjoy that 'Angel Face' for however long I can keep her going!

You're very helpful. Thanks!

I'm going to try and make it April 4th to the park in Eatontown for the rose pruning.


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RE: Rose Pruning Demo

For own root vendors like Heirloom, they are at the mercy of how many cuttings they can get to root and also with demand. If there isn't a lot of demand for a rose, then they will not offer it (or advertise that they offer it, they may have some in the back somewhere...) for a year or so until they can build up their stock again. Or maybe never, if they can't get it to root or there isn't any demand.

I really recommend buying grafted bareroots from Palatine Roses (they have stopped taking orders for the season), Pickering Nursery or even Hortico. They graft onto R. multiflora rootstock, which does really well in NJ, and is less likely to sucker like Dr. Huey rootstock. The HTs on R. multiflora rootstock are very good growers, and you can get some really nice varieties that other vendors don't stock. Palatine carries a lot of roses from Kordes in Germany. Kordes is working hard on creating varieties that are more resistant. Worth a try.


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RE: Rose Pruning Demo

Diane...by coincidence my father is harping on his decided preference for grafted roses. He just lets me go on and acts like he doesn't know anything until I mention something and I have to drag out of him what he's learned through 40 years of cultivating 5 rose bushes!

I don't know where I got the idea that "own root" were superior to grafted but I got it reading somewhere. The sites that sell "own root" roses naturally push the option.

A couple very old grafted bushes only barely produced foliage and maybe a bloom last year on one side of graft with no new foliage growth as of last week. I pruned off the nonproductive canes as they were clearly spent.

If he wants to replace any of those older bushes this year I'll take him to the web sites you named although it might be too late to order for planting this year. I may be under false impression that May is the month one should plant new rose bushes so they settle in well before winter.

Thanks very much for information.

I'm spreading myself too thin knowledge wise between the roses, foundation plantings (Azaleas, Rhododendrons, Hollies, Boxwood & Yews all browsed heavily) and all the other perennials/annuals I'm only in my second year growing and/or newly planting. It takes time to get to know each plant and treat it properly.


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RE: Rose Pruning Demo

Note that the own root vendors are in warmer zones than ours! ;-)

Now, some varieties are very good on their own roots. HTs aren't, though, at least in my experience.

You want to order bare root roses in November/December for delivery in mid-March of the following year. The bare roots are dormant, and can be planted here in late winter. As the soil warms up, the plants come out of dormancy at the same time. You can still order bare roots (Pickering and Hortico are still taking orders, but selections may be limited) for delivery and planting now, you just have to be careful in keeping the canes moist after planting to keep them from drying out (you have to do this anyway).

Own roots you want to order for delivery and planting in May (or late April, I think there might be own root minis being delivered to me in the next day or so).

Good luck. Some plants take a little longer to break dormancy. I lost a couple this year, and had some dead sections on 3 plants (like, crispy, step on it and it breaks off dead). None of the damaged plants are grafted on R. multiflora rootstock. My roses on multiflora are going gangbusters.


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