Let's see . . . you are in zone 6 Idaho, flash, but you are over here in the PNW forum. That would make you a resident of the Lewiston area??

I live in eastern WA and only about 25 miles from the border. Over the last 10 years, we have had gardens in at least 3 locations outside of our own backyard. One of those locations is 28 miles from home in Post Falls, ID.
You aren't alone on GardenWeb, you might try the Rocky Mountain gardening group or go over to http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/cutting/ and click on "What did you grow that was new to you this year, etc" posted by: Jeanne_in_Idaho z5 N.Idaho. Talk to Jeanne. She actually lives in the boonies just a couple of miles from where I used to live near Pend Oreille Lake. Jeanne has been around, like me, for a number of years in the Market gardener forum and now and then in the Cutting garden.

Personally, you can see some of my postings in Rocky Mountain gardening where I'm trying to get some ideas about vegetable varieties suitable for our arid location 2,000+ ft elevation. Seems like I'm on the other side of the world from Western Washington and the folks near the coast.

(That is, except for today. We've had a major meltdown and it feels like March!!!)

Steve

Yeah, if you're east of the Cascades Rocky Mountain forum is the one for you.

I am almost in Idaho, visit regularly, you aren't totally alone..........The people on the coast seem to think they are the only ones in the northwest, not sure why. So the rest of us don't post in this forum too much.

If you read the forum descriptions at the top of the page(s) that is how it was laid out by the site designers, not the forum participants. But it makes sense to do it that way anyway, environmental conditions being different on the Pacific Slope from those in the Intermountain Region.

How's things in Idaho these days anyway? The only thing I remember about Idaho was Evil Knievils' Snake River jump back in the 70's.
The gardening must be a challenge with the extremes? It sure looks like a pretty State. I looks as though you can drive from Washington to Montana in about 15 minutes at the top end of the State.

Northern Idaho (and adjacent Montana) is interesting because there is an eastern repeat of the Pacific Northwest forests there, with stands of western hemlock, western white pine and western redcedar.

I enjoyed living in eastern Washington. I learned how to ride (i.e. a snowboard) at Mt Spokane. The strech of US 95 between Moscow and Coeur d'Alene is very beautiful in the fall. Idaho is a diverse place of many climates... I have seen those cedar etc. forests of which you speak. Lots of Polystichum munitum out there too. The bottoms of the Salmon and Snake River canyons have the mildest winter temperatures of any location east of the Cascades in the Pacific Northwest.... not that a whole lot of people live there anyways. Riggins is USDA zone 8a. Zone 5b-6 Places like Spokane and Pullman seem to be just warm enough to enjoy growing a lot of cool stuff, even though not as much as Seattle. There are a number of places to see cool plants including Lawson Gardens (Pullman) and Manito Park (Spokane). The climate of Boise or Spokane is as dissimilar to Denver as it is to Seattle. Maybe the region deserves its own forum.

Barrie, you should know more about Idaho because it has native cacti, including some fabulous forms of Pediocactus!! And no it takes at least an hour 15 to drive across the north end of it, in my experience.

I don't believe that Riggins can be be in zone 8, ian wa. The USDA hardiness map shows only a very tiny area in the state in zone 7a and no warmer zones.

Riggins is at 1800 feet above sea level according to Wikipedia. Downstream, nearby Lewiston is at only 755 feet with a USDA hardiness zone of 6a.
www.cityoflewiston.org/ufd/climate.htm

Of course with only about 400 people in Riggins, it is kind of difficult to find much info on plant hardiness but surely a rise of more than 1000 feet suggests that it is unlikely to be any warmer than a zone 6.

Steve

Here is a link that might be useful:

Hi - I am another Spokane person (obviously).........SpoWa -I agree with you - we are definitely a Zone 5 NOT 6. Need to change my bio. I live about 10 minutes from the Idaho/Wa border. BEAUTIFUL wide open rocky country here with lakes & rivers everywhere. Grasses compliment the terrain so nicely. We moved here from Seattle 2 years ago. I miss our drives around Alki looking at all the homes with their beautiful OG & Tropical gardens. I am so envious of their Pampas Grasses that (beleive it or not) I use to see growing in a vacant lot by us year after year with NO maintenance. Other than that - Spokane has THE better quality of life! Course that debate could fill an entire forum of its own. I find the Seattle gardners (on this site) have been wonderful with their advice. Just need to be always conscience of their zone VS ours. OG Gardens in yards are few & far between here. Ours does great & I cant quite understand why they arent catching on. EZ growing - no maintenance - what a NO brainer. I have noticed new businesses are starting to use them more & more in their professional landscaping. The wonderful people here are just a little behind. Manito Park is a must see. I found many ideas there - even this time of year. The grasses all have tags. Plant Farm is an excellent nursery to purchase from. Spokane nursery people are so giving with their info. There is a gentle nature in the air that is becoming harder to find in Seattle's busy mode. FYI - If you do live in N. Idaho & you are new to this area - spring comes very slowly..........you WILL get inpatient believe me! Glad to see there are more locals (around me) on this forum. Last year it seemed I was the only one. I will also try the Rocky Mountain site but I so enjoy reading the Seattle comments/advice.

A question from someone who doesn't catch on to abbreviations fast...

what does OG garden mean?
Thanks
zenzone

I'm constantly on the lookout for more climate data. It used to be free, but now one has to pay to get it. I may try hitting up some university libraries sometime to find some, and take a lot of notes. Anyways, I was able to find data through the NCDC site for Lewiston showing the winter lows from 1974-98. The average coldest temperature each winter for this period is 3.8 degrees F. Using that period of 25 winters, that is equivalent to USDA zone 7a not 6a. No data were available for Riggins.

The map you show cannot possibly be accurate beacuse the milder spots do not even follow the low elevation canyons around the Orofino/Kamiah/Grangeville area (though it looks like an attempt was made). But, I suspect it is just a reproduction of the USDA 1990 map.... which really has a lot of limitations in a region with such rugged topography, and is just plain innacurate in many parts of the West.

I realize that comes short of proving Riggins is very mild, but at least, I hope to demonstrate that the USDA map is not at all to be trusted, especially in the west where weather recording stations are so far apart and the topography is so varied. I prefer to let statistical data speak rather than our own perception, or the USDA map; that is why I am always trying to find more of it.

Ian, I enjoyed living in Eastern Washington also. I lived on the road going to Mt. Spokane in the middle of Peone Prairie in the wheat fields near Greenbluff. Snowboards hadn't been invented yet. Our veggie garden was the size of a city lot and that's where I learned to grow things. We kids were slave labor then working in the garden. I'm surprised I still have a love for growing things after having the wrong perception for those teenage years. It took me almost twenty years to get off the farm and almost another twenty to get back on it over here near Seattle. I grow ornamentals now and very few veggies.
My wife and I get over there once in awhile. I have two sisters that live in the Spokane Valley and a brother that lives just east of Spirit Lake, Idaho. He can't grow a thing because of the moose coming through his place.

Any map is going to create a "broad brushed" view and it will need to be based on national climatic data. The American Horticulture Society has a Plant Heat Zone Map. The USDA Plant Hardiness Zone Map identifies the coldest zone that a plant will survive based on minimum winter temperature. But, Summer sun has an impact on the growing season and our plants ability to thrive.

Idaho where I lived and gardened for nearly 20 years (from east of Spirit Lake to Moscow) has remarkable diversity. But, if you want to see something amazing (broad brushed, of course) look at a state like Colorado.

But we donÂt need to go that far afield! To just use our Washington State wetsides and drysides and Summer rather than Winter - - July temperature normals for SeaTac are 75 max 55 min. While Spokane July normals are 83 max 54 min. Sunny July days - - SeaTac 65%, Spokane - - 80%. SeaTac AM humidity 82% Spokane AM humidity 65%. Yakima or the TriCities would be more extreme.

Our original Idaho gardener may have headed for the Rocky Mountains after all this but the NW is remarkably different when one crosses the Cascades. I guess I should check those forum descriptions but I wonder what the high elevation folks in eastern Oregon think about eastside/westside gardening. Really tough to compare.

Here is a link that might be useful: Weather Links

For ZENZONE & anyone else questioning the itnitals OG - they mean Ornamental Grasses.................so EZ to grow (no dead heading, no leaves dropping, very little if any fertilizing, etc) - they literaly dance in the breeze - so beautiful - so many different varieties & shades. HOWEVER even though a lot of people love them - some people dont - they feel they look like simple weeds. Each to their own. Our entire front yard beds have been redone in OG's. We brought in huge boulders and laid down gold Lava Rock with cement landscape borders. The contrast between all this & our lush green (in the spring, summer & fall) lawn is beautiful..........Even in the winter the grasses stand tall & lovely. Peeking through snow or otherwise! Everyone should try a few in their garden BUT be careful you will get "hooked" on their simplicity if nothing else. Check out the Ornamental Grass section of Garden Web - there are usually pictures.

BoTann, yeah I kind of miss that Eastern Washington lifestyle, the dry air, and the snow. (Being a gardener I can't say that I would appreciate moose.) But it is nice to have enjoyed eastern WA for a while. I think I know just where you lived.... there is a really weird looking house in that area now on the north side of the road!! I'm sorry you missed out on snowboarding :-)

"OG" could also stand for organic gardening or "overgrown"... LOL! I like ornamental grasses as well and I also appreciate their many virtues....

Digit, your point about summer sun, humidity etc is spot on and further illustrates how limited the usefulness of USDA zones is (besides the impossibility of mapping them accurately in a region of rugged topography). They are a place to start when determining what may survive in one's garden but that is about it.... I think many (though not all) gardeners and garden writers rely far too heavily upon them, which is why I prefer not to designate myself as within a certain zone (though I know I am in 8b Poulsbo, WA). The entire West is amazingly diverse, as far as the climate. I think the most extreme examples of climate diversity occur in California, Arizona and New Mexico, but examples could be found in every state. If you drive up Mt. Lemmon in Arizona, you go from sonoran desert flora to firs, spruce, poplar and penstemon in just a few miles. In most places, the climate does not change over gradual incriments as it does in the East.

Thanks for the link. One of my favorite sites for climate data is the Western U.S. Climate Historical Summaries provided by the Western Region Climate Center. Once you have selected a site, comparing the graphs under 'Temperature: daily extremes and averages' is especially informative. But, one cannot compute a USDA zone from this data, without actual period of record data.

Here is a link that might be useful: Western U.S. Climate Historical Summaries

Sorry, I all but forgot about this post. SpoWa, I live down in Boise :( well, tecnicaly, not in Boise, sort of in between Boise and Eagle. I would like to exactly what Sunset zone I'm in, I can't pinpoint it. We Idahoans, or at least us intermontanians, need our own catagory.

Flash, I live in Boise (obviously!), and whenever I want to look for information relating to our area, I just make sure to add the word "Boise" to the search. Hope this is helpful!

Flash, I am in Cambridge, ID. I understand the zone question thing and micro climate??? We live just shy of 1/4 mile up our driveway from our neighbor and we had one FULL month more frost free than he did this last fall. I do not know if this will happen next year. We are a little higher elevation than he is. Maybe it is he way the wind blows here verses at his house. Certainly interesting. I do not have any answers for you.

Chris

Cold air flowing downhill and settling over a low area.