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Lawn to Garden Convert - Removing Grass
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Posted by colliwobbles 8 (My Page) on Thu, Mar 15, 07 at 13:24
| Hi everyone,
I was hoping that someone can give me a little advice on removing grass from a lawn. I need to start planting within the next few weeks, so I don't have time to waste.
My original plan was to kill the grass with Round-Up, till once dead, add compost, till again, and then plant and mulch. I'm worried about this method now because I'm afraid the ground won't get dried out enough in the next few weeks to till it.
The other idea was to use a sod cutter, and I was wondering if any of you have experience with this method? Would I be able to cut the sod out sometime in April, or does the soil have to be dried out to a certain degree also?
As a last resort, I will cover the grass with newspaper and add 6" to 8" of soil, but I'd rather not go this route.
Thanks for ANY advice you can offer!
- Jana |
Follow-Up Postings:
RE: Lawn to Garden Convert - Removing Grass
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- Posted by bboy z8 WA USA (My Page) on
Thu, Mar 15, 07 at 13:48
| Sod cutter, if available from nearby rental agency is like a tall and heavy tiller. If you can get one and get it there, operate it successfully it does slice the grass right off nicely. If you don't line up each pass perfectly there will be narrow strips of uncut grass but should any of these be left you can get those with a hand tool afterward. The cut sod can be laid upside down in a low spot somewhere, as fill or otherwise utilized where some soil is needed. If you stack it upside down, with the sides close together there actually isn't a huge problem with it growing. If the edges manage to continue development those could be sprayed or covered with something that blocks the light. Yard waste totes aren't supposed to have sod put in them and you will have too large an amount anyway. They may also be prohibiting sod at transfer stations here now, but I'm not sure. |
RE: Lawn to Garden Convert - Removing Grass
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| I had the exact same problem last Spring. I covered the lawn area with black plastic for three weeks. After that, the lawn was dead, and the soil was in good shape for tilling, since the plastic kept the rain out, and helped warm up the soil. Also, the dead grass foliage and roots add organic matter when you till it in. The grass has not come back. |
RE: Lawn to Garden Convert - Removing Grass
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- Posted by azehav 7/8 Oregon (My Page) on
Mon, Mar 19, 07 at 14:13
Yes, Roundup is completely unnecessary, terrible for the Willamette River, and not so good for you. I have gotten rid of grass several ways:
1. mowed it down as low as the machine will go, and then turned it under, putting compost on top of it.
2. Sheet mulching: putting down a layer of cardboard and newspaper and then piling compost, clippings, etc. on top and then turning it under after a few months.
3. removing the grass with sod cutter or shovel. You can post your grass on freecycle.org, or craigslist.org and sometimes folks will haul it away for you. It makes great compost, if you have the patience. Our sod was used by a neighbor to build up a planting bed in his parking strip. It looks great. |
RE: Lawn to Garden Convert - Removing Grass
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I think your last resort is actually the best resort. I really don't think doing all the extra work will really give you any big benefit.
In our last house, my wife converted large areas of grass into flower beds by just covering with 6 layers of newspaper and 6" of pure Cedar Grove compost. Wow! Those were the best beds we've ever had. Weed and grass free and everything grew like gangbusters in there with less watering. Easy as pie to get started. I highly recommend it. |
RE: Lawn to Garden Convert - Removing Grass
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| There are many ways to prepare your site for your intended purpose, but it should be made clear that Roundup is not "terrible for the Willamette River". While some pesticides commonly present off site movement risks and problems, Roundup is not typically one of them. Its property of binding tightly to soil particles as well as other factors are well known and distinguish it from easily moved herbicides such as atrazine. This is one reason glyphosate based herbicdes are commonly used for invasive plant removal in sensitive areas such as streamsides. |
RE: Lawn to Garden Convert - Removing Grass
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| Thanks everyone for your input. After stressing out about the grass too much, I decided on the lasagna method. I was then stressing about finding enough newspaper to cover the grass, but then discovered that I could just order newsprint from a paper company for a decent price. My dilemma now is deciding what to use for the layers, but that shouldn't be too hard. I'll get compost for sure, and maybe peat. Now, if it would just stop raining... |
RE: Lawn to Garden Convert - Removing Grass
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| I planted quite a large area over with flower beds.... at first, I dug the sod, turned it upside down, put top soil over the top, and it worked fine. However, next time I just put the top soil directly on top of the grass.... no layers, nothing.... and that worked fine too. Just had to pull out the odd grass bunch, as it poked through, but it was minimal. The following seasons, the bed has been fine and the grass has never returned. Really easy! |
RE: Lawn to Garden Convert - Removing Grass
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- Posted by bboy z8 WA USA (My Page) on
Wed, Mar 21, 07 at 16:46
| Alternating layers of different materials ignores natural models, where you ordinarily have organic material on top of soil with less organic material as you go deeper. The decay organisms are mostly up near the surface, where the air is. |
Here is a link that might be useful: Newspaper Mulch
RE: Lawn to Garden Convert - Removing Grass
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Bboy the article you linked makes 6 points against newspaper. Items 1, 3, 5, and 6 all do not apply when the newspaper is properly covered by 6" of compost.
Item 2 doesn't matter because bark won't give you a weed free bed that you can plant into today.
Item 4 she's just guessing on. 6" of compost is enough to trap all the water that rains & slowly release it down into the soil. I know that from my personal experience & that of my friends.
Part of the difference here is that she was considering it as more of a top layer of mulch, when here we are just using it as a low layer weed barrier.
When we used this method we had an incredible amount of worms show up within a year and really "tilled" the soil. This was in soil where we had hardly ever seen any before. The newspaper disappeared within 6 months to a year and that transition line quickly faded within a couple years. |
RE: Lawn to Garden Convert - Removing Grass
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| I have to do exact same job, getting rid of grass that is. I 'm new to this area. is there a place here (west WA)where you can buy compost, manure, topsoil, garden pebbles etc for cheap. In my earlier place there was a public garden supply place that had piles of these and they sold everything for $2 a sack, fill it with what you want...wondering any place like that in this area? or home depot et al is the only way to go?.... |
RE: Lawn to Garden Convert - Removing Grass
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| Cedar Grove Compost is the best place I know of. They don't use manure & sawdust like some do, it's just plain recycled yard waste. You can have it delivered by the dump truck load or buy it in bags at the home centers for 2 1/2 or 3 bucks a bag. |
Compost
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| You can also take your pick up down there and they'll fill it up. |
RE: Lawn to Garden Convert - Removing Grass
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- Posted by botann z8 SEof Seattle (My Page) on
Sun, Mar 25, 07 at 14:53
| Here's my view of Cedar Grove Compost. Squak and Cougar Mt. in the background and a part of Cedar Hills Landfill with a liner on it. |
Here is a link that might be useful: Cedar Grove Compost.
RE: Lawn to Garden Convert - Removing Grass
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| I am doing a progressive transition of a parking strip from all grass to Paver path to curb with benches on either side and a Neighborhood Herb and Hardy Fuschia Garden. I started with 360 sq ft of Grass. I am experimenting with pulling up the sod, knocking off the loose soil and letting the sod decompose in some spare garbage cans with tight fitting lids. Perhaps the tight fitting lids are a mistake. Any comments? I have pulled up approximately 40 sq ft so far. I am about 10% through the project and have been planting stuff as I've progressed. The slow process appeals to me. I get to meet a lot of neighbors and the constantly changing garden makes for a good conversation starter. |
RE: Lawn to Garden Convert - Removing Grass
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- Posted by botann z8 SEof Seattle (My Page) on
Sat, Jun 2, 07 at 11:51
| Colliwobbles, how did it go? What method did you use? What are the results? Inquiring minds want to know. ;-) |
RE: Lawn to Garden Convert - Removing Grass
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| I am about to embark on a large project, removing 10,000 sq. feet of grass with a sod cutter. I have several VERY large beds I am putting in place to reduce overall sq. footage of grass. Am I reading these posts correctly in that I can cut the sod up, turn it upside down to develop "bermed" beds with minimal retun of the grass? |
RE: Lawn to Garden Convert - Removing Grass
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| EEK! My method of a trusty pick axe is great for a very small area, but 10,000 SF! EEK. hehe |
Here is a link that might be useful: Sinfonian's garden adventure!
RE: Lawn to Garden Convert - Removing Grass
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| Zyrtecdave, yes you are reading the posts correctly. Turning the sod over with the grass side down and the roots exposed will essentially stop the photosynthesis process and the grass will eventually starve. The same theory as if you were to leave a large stone or pot in the middle of your lawn :-) The rooty dirt side is diificult to plant in until the grass dies and decomposes, so I'd suggest using it only as a base for your berm and adding soil over the top. You will also get a more natural contour to your berm if you do this. When you use the sodcutter, make sure the blade is positioned at a sufficient depth to remove the majority of the roots as well as the topgrowth. |
RE: Lawn to Garden Convert - Removing Grass
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I converted grass area to perennial beds last summer. Started out planning on cutting and turning the sod , adding newspaper and soil then waiting several months. Got impatient and decided to try the lazy way.I just cut the grass VERY short and then dumped 6-8 inches of topsoil on top. Only waited a week or so then planted most of the beds.Turned out great.Got a bit of grass coming up here and there, mostly near the edges where the topsoil wasnt thick enough but it pulled out pretty easy for the most part and sure beat the backbreaking work of digging up sod !
This year the plants are all doing very well. And when I dig down below the 6-8 inches this year the grass has mulched in quite nicely... lots of big fat worms too...lol |
RE: Lawn to Garden Convert - Removing Grass
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| So reading zyrtecdaves post,it occurs to me that i could use wide strips of sod turned upside down as walls for a raised bed. Anybody ever do this? What was the result? Also, since I have an abundance of sod,it occured to me to run it through a cement mixer to break it up. Anybody ever try that? Tell me it works fine before I rent a mixer and find out otherwise! |
RE: Lawn to Garden Convert - Removing Grass
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| I'd like to remove 1500 sf of Kentucky Blue Grass sod and replace it with perennial beds and gravel or bark paths. The grass is now infested with grubs. Will turning the sod over and leaving in place starve the grubs by removing the roots they feed on? If grubs aren't killed, will my new beds be in danger of damage by grubs who no longer have grass roots to eat? Maybe I need to create berms for all beds to get them up and away from the grubs. Thanks for any advice. |
RE: Lawn to Garden Convert - Removing Grass
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| Look at all the ideas. Roudup Bad ?? Not really. At reduced rate, 500 square feet of lawn could be killed with Roundup with maybe 2 eyedroppers of Glyphosate dispersed over the whole area, much of the herbicide to deteriorate. And near Portland at least, sod is not accepted at commercial composting locations. Lasagna method ?? Sometimes one more way to make a thatch layer. Probably the slowest way to get the job done. Can't knock that it works though if you wait for decomposition. If the lawn was not thatchy - may be promising. My choice ?? Cut the sod, remove it, ammend the soil with compost and rototil or cultivate with a shovel. Why not stack the sod and compost it to the side. Get it out of your hair ?? Add soil ?? Why ?? We turned hard clay soil over, added an inch of compost and rototilled. Repeated several years with an inch of compost or so per year. And double dug. Ended up with soil so loose, I could push a blunt 1" diameter bamboo pole in 14" deep with my bare hands. And that in spring prior to cultivating yet. Some folks say double digging may cause compaction. My experience with the poles pushing 14" in, proves the compaction fear to be a myth, since it was brick-like prior to the double digging. M. D. Vaden of Oregon |
RE: Lawn to Garden Convert - Removing Grass
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| While the active ingredient in Roundup, glyphosate, isn't harmful, some of the other chemicals in it, specifically the surfacant has been found to block the reproduction of amphibians. So if you want there to be frogs and toads in the world, pass over the Roundup. |
RE: Lawn to Garden Convert - Removing Grass
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| That's odd. We have had frogs at our present home and past two homes, and still used Roundup. Guess my technique of using it in moderation at slightly diluted rates works after all. |
RE: Lawn to Garden Convert - Removing Grass
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| Thank you for all the informative posts. My back yard is in transition right now from a green tall fescue lawn to bare dirt with paths and plantings. It is so ugly. I was discouraged about the entire project until I read the blog. I have one area of layered newspaper, cardboard, hay, and soil. It's taking a long time to degrade. The larger area of the yard is dead yellow grass now. A leaking hose proved to us that the grass will come right back when given water. I was encouraged to read that I can put a layer of compost or soil over the dead grass. If it weren't 100 degrees, I would plant in a few days. Thank you for your help. |
RE: Lawn to Garden Convert - Removing Grass
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| If you want to ensure some pathways amid the new garden space....cardboard is a great layer.....I cover it with whatever aesthetically pleasing mulch I can find for free, and it works great. Cardboard also is doing a great job at keeping Himalayan blackberries from resprouting from root bits. I'll rototill it all in after a few more rainy seasons. |
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