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finnpond_gw

Cut Back Ceanothus?

finnpond
14 years ago

Well my Ceanothus looks like crap after the December freeze... Can I cut it way back? Only the ends of the branches have green leaves and the interior branch leaves are dead,(brown and crispy)..

Thanks for any help...

Dave

Comments (19)

  • Embothrium
    14 years ago

    Give it more time to fill back in, then snip out remaining dead bits. It may take more than one summer for it to come back.

    If it looks like it's not going to recover after what seems a reasonable period of time, pull the whole thing out.

  • gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
    14 years ago

    For sure you would want to wait until after flowering :-) And depending on how much of a hit it took, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see it green up on its own.

  • bahia
    14 years ago

    My experience with Ceanothus in general is that they do not repsond well to hard pruning at all. Cutting back to bare hard wood will not resprout, it is better to only cut smaller tip branches that still have foliage. Most are so dense growing that it is the nature of the shrub to lose all foliage at the center of the plant for lack of sun.

  • muddydogs
    14 years ago

    Hack it out with pick. Replace it with another. Their short 5 year life is worth it. Bees swarm to it. Deer don't eat it.

  • aftermidnight Zone7b B.C. Canada
    14 years ago

    The winter of 08/09 was one of if not the worst one we've ever had. Our Ceanothus 'Victoria' well over 6 ft. was all brown and crispy with no sign of regrowth so about the end of may we cut it down to a stump to be pulled out at a later date. Last summer it threw new shoots from the base so ours got a reprieve. 'Victoria' is one of the hardier ones, maybe the reason it's still hanging in.

  • gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
    14 years ago

    5 years is a bit on the pessimistic side :-) The two at my old garden are going on 20 y.o. and even the ones in the nearby mall parking lot (that get sheared regularly into a boxed hedge shape) are approaching 10.

    If provided good drainage, full sun and minimal irrigation, Ceanothus 'Victoria' is a much hardier and long-lived plant than many suspect.

  • Jajohnson2
    12 years ago

    My ceanothus "Julia Phelps" is 7 yrs old, approx 6' x 6', and through last year was gorgeous. This year, almost half the branches appear dead.

    I did do some pruning on it last summer, mostly around the bottom to facilitate mowing, but also a bit of shaping/dead wood removal. Would that have caused the die-back?

    Or, might it have been our unusually chilly and wet Spring this year...or possibly the sudden temp change last November from 70F to 14F?

  • Jajohnson2
    12 years ago

    Here's a photo of my ceanothus.

    Here is a link that might be useful: ceanothus die-back

  • gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
    12 years ago

    Or, might it have been our unusually chilly and wet Spring this year...or possibly the sudden temp change last November from 70F to 14F?

    Yep!! Dry soil plants - like ceanothus - were just not happy with the amount of precipitation we received late winter through spring. Even well-draining soils became overly saturated. And that severe cold snap in November didn't help much either. Hard to find any naturally growing Arbutus menziesii not showing a lot of cold damage. A record high to a record low in three weeks that early in the season is tough for a lot of usually hardy plants to take.

    FWIW, the relatively ancient (for ceanothus) shrubs at my old garden in Shoreline are looking rather peaked as well. No signs of flower buds - they are typically in full bloom at this time - and they lost a lot of foliage. New owners have not been very skilled at pruning also, which hasn't helped :-)

  • ian_wa
    12 years ago

    >>the sudden temp change last November from 70F to 14F?

    That alone did it to the Ceanothus here around Sequim, I'm fairly certain, since damage already showed back in January when it was still rather dry around here. I see a number of 'Dark Star' and 'Victoria' looking a lot like yours or worse - in fact in colder gardens, some of them are stone dead. Yours certainly doesn't look like a lost cause, I'd just cut the dead parts out and it ought to look good again before long, unless winters start getting even worse!

    I attribute the heavy damage to many plants this winter primarily to the three week temperature plunge, besides the low temperature itself that was reached. There are even entire Photinia hedges around here completely dead or heavily damaged. But I won't miss them too much.

  • gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
    12 years ago

    There are some advantages to an excessively cold winter, Ian :-) Photinia die-off could sure be considered one of them.

    That early cold doesn't seem to have uniformly affected ceanothus in the area. I am still seeing some very good looking plants. In fact, one 'Dark Star' in full bloom up the street is striking enough to cause traffic issues! Whether it is the individual microclimates that were either colder or warmer than average or soil conditions that lead to excessively saturated ground, I am seeing a very wide and unusual range of failed plants this season. Roses, of all things and lots of 'em. The same garden (7 y.o.) that had more dead than alive Viburnum tinus 'Spring Bouquet' had perfectly healthy looking Ceanothus 'Victoria'....they even had a few hebes that managed to winter over OK. Go figure!!

    In my own garden - mostly containers - salvia 'Hot Lips' sailed through while every single 'hardy' fuchsia bit the dust. I would have expected just the opposite.

  • PRO
    George Three LLC
    12 years ago

    a generic mophead Hydrangea macrophylla that came with my house died back to the base. that was weird. i've always wanted to get rid of it, but the wife liked it, so i consider this good news as well.

  • Embothrium
    12 years ago

    Photinia are thinning out due to leaf fungus problems that occur regardless of winter cold, same as the blackening of madronas that has been going on for years.

    Seemingly mysterious variations in what died back due to cold might be due to conditions the previous spring and summer, how these affected hardening off.

    Otherwise, it only takes a short time below a plant's minimum temperature for it to be adversely affected.

  • ian_wa
    12 years ago

    I notice Phormium around here is less damaged than one would expect relative to other plants (though still usually damaged). I agree that the 'sudden drop' factor as well as the cool summer and wet September affected various plants differently when freeze damage occurred - it only makes sense.

    What I'm seeing on Photinia here is definitely freeze damage - plants that looked great last year are stone dead.

    Performance of Ceanothus, Escallonia, Cistus, Cotoneaster, Eucalyptus and Hebe around here last winter appears to be mostly connected to microcliamtes as far as I can tell - the ones in colder pockets have worse damage. Also what I would expect.

    I've been propagating Photinia serrulata lately - have you noticed the same disease problems on it? I also picked up a P. davidsoniae to propagate this fall.

  • Embothrium
    12 years ago

    Correctly Photinia serratifolia, the main headache seems to be mildewing under certain conditions. And it not being as hardy as others. However, since the leaf problems are now present on some P. glabra as well as the hybrid maybe the big boy will show noticeable troubles soon also.

    I know of one small P. davidsoniae in Kent, otherwise it seems to be a California Special. The Kent specimen, as far as I know has been holding up, so the lack of others being known this far north could just be its general rarity.

  • gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
    12 years ago

    Umm, the blackening/scorching of the madrones is most definitely cold damage, as it appears on ones that were - before November - perfectly healthy otherwise, or at least apparently so. And it is characteristically only the exposed side of the tree showing any damage.

    The USFS notes the madrones low tolerance for frost or any kind of sustained temperatures below 20F. And we sure as heck managed that.

  • Embothrium
    12 years ago

    Foliar diseases are also common among madrones, though they usually cause only cosmetic damage. Older leaves are attacked by pathogenic fungi, usually between late fall and early spring, and are particularly susceptible during warm, wet weather. Infected leaves are dropped in the spring, then replaced by new leaves in the summer. At least nineteen different fungi cause leaf spots in Pacific madrones. The most common genera include Didymosporium, Diplodia, Coccomyces, Rhytisma, and Mycosphaerella

    Here is a link that might be useful: Sustainable Horticulture :: Pacific Northwest Madrona Tree - Madrone:

  • Jajohnson2
    12 years ago

    Thanks for all the input and info. At least I don't have to feel guilty that it was something I did wrong :-)