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I usually purchase 15 bags of Sound Grow a year and use it on my grass as well as vegetable gardens.In the Spring I use 2 Bags for my grass(3500 sq ft) a heavy feeding and 1 bag per month there after. I also have purchased Tagro for a Dahlia bed and Black Potato garden.Great product as well.

Jim
University Place

Almost doesn't matter what results somebody else gets with a fertilizer product because soils vary - sometimes quite markedly - in mineral content from one spot to the next. Sample your soil and have it tested, then select a product which addresses your particular conditions.

I am the SoundGRO Representative for Pierce County and user of SoundGRO fertilizer. We have many fans of our fertilizer and I invite you to try it. We are having a free bag give-a-way at our treatment plant on Saturday, March 14, 2009 from 8:00 am to 2:00 pm.

Come by and receive two free 50 pound bags. Each bag will cover approximately 2,500 sq. ft. Additional bags can be purchased for $3.25 each. It's a great way to try our fertilizer while getting your yard ready for Spring and Summer. The address for the Chambers Creek Wastewater Treatment Plant is 10311 Chambers Creek Road W, University Place, WA 98467. You may go to our website for driving directions, www.soundgro.com.
Happy Gardening!
-Trish

>I usually purchase 15 bags of Sound Grow a year and use it on my grass as well as vegetable gardensThis means that you have determined that the stuff is labeled for use on edible crops, I hope. Even if so I would wonder about using it repeatedly if it is made using municipal sewage.

>It's a great way to try our fertilizerNote again that there should be a soil test report or other strong indication of a need for nutrient supplementation before fertilization is undertaken. And the product selected should supply the particular nutrients indicated to be needed in the right amounts.

Fertilizers made from biosolids have to meet rather exacting standards with regards to both pathogens and heavy metals. SoundGRO has met all necessary testing requirements and is listed a Class A fertilizer and can be used safely with edible crops.

And there really isn't a pressing need to do repeated soil testing for either lawn applications or on edible crops. Lawns need supplemental applications of nitrogen during the growing season (unless you mulch mow), as do any annual (i.e., most edible) crops. A modest application of an organic, naturally slow release nitrogen source - such as the listed product - will not hurt or be excessive and will stimulate beneficial soil organisms.

Always depends on which nutrients are present on a particular site and how much of these there are vs. what and how much is in a particular product.

Always.

Without soil testing all you are working from is assumptions.

Soils can vary markedly in mineral content both from one part of a property to another and from one time to another.

Since all soils, and especially NW soils, tend to be lacking in nitrogen, at least periodically during the growing season, supplementing this nutrient on plantings that have a high nitrogen demand - like lawns and annual crops, even roses - is pretty common and typically recommended. Without the need for an annual soil test to verify.

"Always" is pretty darn absolute and a lot more hardline than necessary, especially when it comes to organically sourced nutrients.

Not all soils are nitrogen deficient. Nitrogen is the most frequently deficient nutrient on cultivated soils in this region. This doesn't tell how much nitrogen may be needed on a particular plot. There are too many variables to assume everyone gardening here needs to apply nitrogen every year, and that what happens to be in a given product is the right formulation every time.

I don't care to get into a big debate with you on this subject, but even the local extension services (WSU, OSU) don't share your opinion on the need for annual or even periodic soil testing before applying nitrogen. Nitrogen is the most mobile of the necessary plant nutrients - so much so that most soil testing services don't measure it, as the results can change extremely rapidly in a very short period of time.

Because of nitrogen's rapid conversion to the nitrate form and its subsequent movement through the soil, it makes the soil test for nitrogen quite difficult to interpret. By the time you receive soil test results for nitrate nitrogen, it may have already moved through the soil if some rain had fallen between sample collection and reporting of lab results. Some soil tests for nitrogen are done for certain crops but it is still in an experimental stage and not widely used or accepted in our region. (The Scoop on Soil Testing for Nitrogen)

Almost all recommendations for fertilizer applications for NW soils estimate the amount of nitrogen based on the type of crops grown, as virtually all plants will require some sort of nitrogen supplmentation. Some of this can come from applications of organic matter as a mulch but even this can be sporadic and unreliable, as the ongoing decomposition of most forms of organic matter tend to tie up nitrogen - at least temporarily - rather than make it readily available for plant needs. An organically sourced nitrogen supplement - like the subject biosolids - are considered an excellent alternative to fast acting, water soluble synthetic fertilizers as the nutrient release is extended over time, it is difficult to over-apply (relatively low concentrations) and is not subject to excessive leaching.

I could direct you to various local references that will offer recommendations of routine amounts of nitrogen to be applied for various gardening situations, including lawns (4#/1000sf), vegetable gardens (4#/100sf) and certain ornamental plantings like roses and perennials (1.8#/1000sf three times a season, or about 1/3 cup per plant) and that don't specify a soil test prior to application but rather are based 'average' accepted levels of P&K. The fact is that nitrogen in any kind of persistent form in the garden setting is just not readily present or present in sufficient quantities to assure uniformly healthy growth on those plants that have high nitrogen requirements. This is often one of the reasons PNW lawns encourage the development of moss - very low nitrogen levels.

Garden soils, especially in areas of high rainfall, often lack adequate nitrogen. Cold spring soils are miserly about releasing nutrients (such as nitrogen) from rotting organic matter and their own frequently paltry reserves. (WSU Extension Office, Clark County)

I won't argue about the nitrogen but the phosphorus levels might be too much. Wouldn't recommend this product to be applied yearly.

Yes: phosphorus leaches very slowly and can therefore accumulate if applied repeatedly. So, theoretically even a low phosphorus product could eventually produce a problem if applied over and over to a soil that already had adequate or nearly adequate phosphorus to begin with.

As tends to be the case with local soils.

gardengal

Thanks for verifying the 'common sense' information with some quotes from reliable sources. While the home NPK tests have some value, I've had the results on these vary pretty widely; my local extension office confirmed that these can be pretty inconsistent. Meanwhile, I'm not going to send soil to MA every year, so....

Cheryl

You'll note I said average accepted levels of P&K. Since only about 20% of the total P content of soils is ever available for plant use, replenishing this nutrient in modest amounts is unlikely to cause excessive concentrations, especially when dealing with 'harvested' crops - as both lawns and vegetables technically are - as they pull P from the soil that is not replaced.

Shooting almost blind hardly constitutes common sense. With a soil test you have some kind of basis other than what appeared to have worked on other sites, which might have quite different soil conditions.

"Conduct soil tests for chemical analysis of fertilizer needs. Simply spreading fertilizer can be as hurtful as helpful"

--Carl E. Whitcomb, ESTABLISHMENT AND MAINTENANCE OF LANDSCAPE PLANTS (1987 (1991), Lacebark Inc., Stillwater)

I wouldn't waste money on this poop. Jeeze poop is cheap.

What's appropriate methodology for landscape plantings is not necessarily the same for lawns or fast growing crops, like annuals or vegetables. Even the extension service publications that recommended the annual (or more) supplementation of nitrogen for these crops indicated that routinely fertilizing most ornamentals was unnecessary.

Hi NWROSE and all. I live in UP and I am a facilitator for an organic gardening group in UP called UPOG, we meet once a month, the third Thursday of the month at Adriana Hess at 7:00 pm. If you look at our website: www.gardenoforganicdelights.org, We hope to teach about organic and natural gardening for food crops as an adjunct to native plant landscaping as birds and beneficials help. Everyone is welcome, please join us.

You will see we promote both Tagro and Sound Gro. In the organic farming and ag world bio-solids are not used on food crops due to Organic standards usually due to a history of problems with heavy metals. However, now the products like Tagro and Sound Gro have pretty high standards. We might receive some hate mail about this but here is what we believe. "Use The Poop...Close The Loop" with over 7 billion people on the planet there is alot of this stuff and we have to find ways to use it either by putting it back into the soil, or for fuel. We firmly support high standards in organic ag/food production but the home gardener can get very good results with these two products. We are personally using the bio-solids on landscape/ornamentals, including edible berries but will be experimenting with vegatative crops too. It does come down to personal preference but technically the use of bio-solids is not allowed in the industry in organic food production.

We used both Tagro and Sound Gro to recondition a lawn that was just weeds, we did not even dig anything. It was pretty amazing to get a new lawn by overseeding and the use of Tagro and Sound Gro. Currently We are planting landscape plants using a combo of fir bark, compost and soundgro. In University Place we have to contend with arsenic. In food crops you should probably remove the soil or use raised beds if you plant things like carrots and potatoes and plants that pick up the arsenic. I am experimenting with adding in organic amendments and compost teas and manures to bring back microbes and worms. We have typical glacier till in UP and with the arsenic we have experienced stunting of plants. There is a study from WSU online that shows how arsenic affects corn. Trish thanks for continuing your offer and we think the folks at SoundGro are pretty great, John Wells at Tagro can give you a tour and answer any questions you may have. The bio-solids industry is pretty interesting and as owners of a plumbing company we are intrigued by new technology on the horizon. Tagro has a sludge smell that goes away after its use. Sound Gro is almost like a dessicant but it does have a smell when it gets wet that goes away. However this is pretty minor. If you want to read an interesting article about the history of poop and manure in gardening, check out "Fecaphobia" online. It talks about this subject in depth, including the fact that in China they use "night soil" which is raw product on their crops. This is a practice of course we do not recommend because of the issue of e-coli on food crops but animal manures and even human manure have been used for thousands of years.

We think soil testing every year is pretty excessive for the average gardener. We are testing for experimental reasons but for your lawn and landscaping there are good averages to use to avoid over feeding. For your lawn We would recommend also putting down compost as well. Tagro is great. It brings back worms in abundance. We do recommend getting your soil tested in UP to find out about the arsenic and lead levels. Sometimes placement of your house and trees prevented leaching into the soils. Check out "Dirt Alert" with Pierce County Public Health. Mr. Rollins is the person to talk to. Good Gardening to you!
We love a buggy wormy world!

Here is a link that might be useful: UPOG - University Place Organic Garden Club Info.

Here is Link For Sound Gro For Home Gardener

Here is a link that might be useful: Sound Gro For Home Gardener

Here is Link For Tagro.

Contact John Wells and schedule a tour of the plant and products. It is very interesting. Use the Poop Close the Loop!

Here is a link that might be useful: Home Garden Use For Tagro

This is a great work that used to be online in part a few years ago. It gives much information about humanure composting, history and background. It puts our "fear of poop" in perspective and explains why using bio-solids and even composting toilets might be a great idea.

Here is a link that might be useful: Humanure

>Currently We are planting landscape plants using a combo of fir bark, compost and soundgroIf you are talking about amended planting holes here that is a long-disproven method. The principal drawback is the liberally amended planting hole ending up with a different texture from the soil around the hole, and how that affects movement of water into and out of the amended planting hole.

Ideal soils, from a fertility standpoint, are generally defined as containing no more than 5% OM
by weight or 10% by volume
 Before you add organic amendments to your garden, have your soil tested to determine its OM
content and nutrient levels
 Be conservative with organic amendments; add only what is necessary to correct deficiencies and
maintain OM at ideal levels
 Do not incorporate organic amendments into landscapes destined for permanent installations;
topdress with mulch instead
 Abnormally high levels of nutrients can have negative effects on plant and soil health
 Any nutrients not immediately utilized by microbes or plants contribute to non-point source
pollution

In response to bboy, I agree with your post: Let me clarify: we are having to amend ALL the soils in this project with fir bark, compost and sound gro. Due to the arsenic content we are putting in layered levels of organic materials with a nitrogen supplement via sound gro and deep digging in some areas. I agree with the commentary about planting holes and that you must make sure you are not just putting in little spots of amended soils. The reason, roots tend to ball up and can wrap, especially with compacted soils. Water filtration is affected as well. It can lead to binding of tree and shrub roots Sorry for the misunderstanding. We are using raised beds and have opted to layer within and on top of existing soils rather than digging all the soil out and replacing it. For the record bboy, My family owned an organic farm, currently being put into a Land Trust: I am a Seattle Tilth Member and volunteer and I have taken COG training and Pierce County Master Gardener Training I decided to leave the MG program in Pierce County after Weed and Feed was put on the Children's Garden adjacent to a riparian area where birds and fish and native habitat were being developed. It is good to clarify for gardeners the practice and why we are doing it. Soils in UP tend to be rocky and low in amendments, typical of glacier till but layering organic materials over time really can make a difference and it is much cheaper than having to remove all the soils and replacing with non-contaiminated soils. We are creating both landscape areas with edibles AND annual areas which require different practices. I do not use bio-solids in my veggies at this time and this comes down to personal preference. As an organic gardener and practictioner based on Tilth Methods I do not always agree with WSU volunteers teach and practice and this is why we have started a group that is dedicated to natural gardening utilizing tilth methods. Many people apply mulches and they are not stabilized with nitrogen which can lead to deficiencies in the plants, then people use more chemicals to correct the problems. We are deep digging compost into the area, and top dressing with a stabilized mulch mixture but the goal here is to deal amending the soil to dilute the arsenic. My soil is pretty "dead" with little or no microbial activity.

>The reason, roots tend to ball up and can wrap, especially with compacted soils. Water filtration is affected as well. It can lead to binding of tree and shrub rootsAlthough this has become the mantra it is false. Roots readily extend beyond planting holes unless plants are in poor condition before planting or the conditions within the amended planting hole are so bad the plants become too stunted (or dead) to make vigorous root growth.

The main problem is how movement of water is affected into and out of the amended planting hole. Planting holes do not create rootbound plants, pots create rootbound plants. The walls of an amended planting hole would have to be as impenetrable as a pot wall to prevent roots from growing out of the planting hole.

Cut root ends of a woody plant like a tree placed against the glazed walls of a tree-spade dug planting hole will not grow new roots into the soil outside the hole as easily as when a backhoe is used to loosen the soil around the edges of the hole. But I would not expect this to cause the tree to circle around for years like it was in a pot. The issue there is tender new roots coming out of the end of old woody roots that have been cut back, stuck right up against planting holes walls artificially compressed by a tree spade.

BBoy, not sure what your point is. You seem to want to contradict everything I say although you agree with it in the next sentence. I have personally seen roots not extend past a hole when soil was amended only in the hole. So far you have contradicted everything I have said and "experienced" This thread was about SoundGro. My soil was so bad in UP for growing conditions that I actually had plants die. Trees and shrubs that have been previously burlapped if not treated properly can actually get more bound up, especially in hard glacier till soil. This is a fact based on my "experience." The WSU program scientists actually recommend opening up root balls to make sure roots out of nursery stock pots. Do you disagree with this as well?

This is what propelled me to take soil samples and then get the soil tested. Respectfully, I would like to let my lengthy experiences stand on their own merit. If you amend soil in a planting hole that is surrounded by hard pan you can have problems.