No contest! The hours of labour we have had to try and remove the blackberry and broom from our property is phenomenal. Why anyone would want to keep these dangerously invasive plants is beyond me. I think S. Vancouver Island would be 20 feet deep in blackberries if we did nothing. The idiots that imported these pests to our island were so wrong. Add English sparrows, giant frogs, etc.

They gotta go!

its pretty hard to decide what lives and dies...we are not gods after all. i can understand both sides...blackberries provide additional food for the bears, which they sorely need as we encroach on their land, and broom can be lovely sometimes...
but dont get me wrong in saying that they arent pests...not even rhodes can withstand their invasion.
BUT i do know that when it boils down to it, i will for sure tear it out of my garden...

It is certainly true that they provide food for wildlife....and we are very much to blame for their lack of food and for the blackberry curse! But perhaps other food stuffs would have grown in the area where the blackberries have taken over. Anyway, there is definitely a "discussion" going on over here on the sunshine coast!

Broom yes it's got to go, horribly invasive and hasn't any practical use I can think of other than used as a vertical element in a flower arrangement.
Blackberries I'm kinda siting on the fence with that one. I curse it in my garden, it's a sneaky devil just like butter cup. It's outright war with both of these in my garden BUT I do like my blackberry jelly, blackberry and apple pie and maybe some blackberry vinegar this year, that is if we can go somewhere other than my garden to pick them.
Blackberries also feed wildlife which are sadly losing their habitant at an alarming rate. So I guess with this one it's another case of "Just not in my backyard".

Various cultivated varieties of blackberries are better and do not spread over the landscape.

There's really no debate in ecological circles about the harm they do. Blackberries that have invaded natural areas are not beneficial on the whole. Just because they provide berries, forage or pollen for select species at some point does not make up for their displacement of native flora vital for all of our native wildlife. Of course as invasives go, it sure is nice that they have a tasty human benefit, but non-native crops, particularly those that can utterly transform the landscape, need to be kept out of wildlands.

It is a good thought that we can use non-invasive blackberries in our gardens.... in that case, how do we get rid of the wretched stuff that is trying to swallow the coast here? The main pro-broom argument is that it is so bright and sunny in the spring... which is true. Oh dear, I guess nature will eventually solve all our problems! (It will get rid of us and let the plants thrive!)

Blackberries are probably choking out native berries that bears could eat if they weren't choked out. We have salmon berries, huckleberries, thimbleberries, salal, mahonia, currents and elderberries. Probably more.

Bears did fine for many years with Himalayan blackberries.....Don't want to encourage bears along roadways or cultivated areas anyway where the most blackberries are.

You can't find out what exactly is happening in a particular habitat without approaching the matter using some kind of scientific method, usually involving things like staking out plots or taking measurements. You'd have to do something like stake out a plot full of blackberries and another thought to represent the same kind of vegetation that used to be on the other site, then develop a method for measuring and recording bear presence and success on each.

Like many people, I have mixed feelings about these two plants. Do I like seeing huge plots of these plants with nothing else growing among them, no. Nor do I like seeing thousands of acres of conifer plantations growing conifers so thick that their crowns shade the ground so much that not even moss can grow there, many timber companies are growing their trees like that.

I do have a soft spot for Himalayan and evergreen blackberries. As a child and early teen, I made good money picking and selling the berries to a local buyer during summer school break. That's on top of all the jelly, jam, and pies my mother use to make from them, very tasty. But as an adult, I have yanked, pulled, mowed, sprayed, and cursed them on properties I have owned or managed. I have also had the same problem with invasive native plants, but like the native plants I have also allowed small patches of blackberries to grow, since I like the berries, and they do provide for wildlife. Their berries come on in late summer when most of our native berries are long gone, thus giving our wildlife extra energy to make it through our winters or migrate.

Like "Paghat the Rat Girl", I have let Scott broom grow in remote parts of my garden for it bright yellow flowers. But I don't worry that much about it, since it is so easy to pull and get rid of. To say that it doesn't provide any service to wildlife is false also. Its seeds are consumed by valley quail and other seed eating birds, the plant itself provides shelter and food for wildlife. Black tail deer have been seen browsing on it. The valley quail finds shelter for its chicks under it. On the west side of the mountains because of our wet, cold springs, if the chicks run through grass they will get wet and cold, then die. Under a stand of Scott broom, there isn't much grass so the chicks can survive our wet springs from the protection provide by the Scott broom.

Are either of these plant dangerous, no, unless you count the scratches from blackberry thorns as dangerous. Do they invade native plant communities. Yes, if you consider abandoned pastures, farms, log yards, industrial sites as native plant communities. I don't. In my sixty years living in the PNW, I have seen these sites invaded by these two plants develop back into a native plant community if they are not re-disturbed by man or nature. That's the main reason why I find the hysteria of some people so sad.

issafish thanks for the information on Quail and Scotch Broom we have a lot of California Quail in our neighborhood and S. Broom so I won't think so badly about it in the future, I had no idea they feed on those seeds.

And thank you, A.M. for the blackberry vinegar idea, that sounds like a "must do" - my DH just picked a huge bowl of blackberries. Love the berries, hate the invasive nature on the property. I find Scotch Broom easier to get rid of.
Interesting discussion! When you think there is only one way to think about a plant, someone offers a different point of view, like shelter and food for birds.
How about wild roses? Are they native or introduced?

Like the broom California quail are introduced here. Shall we cherish and retain ivy because it encourages wharf rats and other foreign origin animals? California quail are fun to have around, but if they die out of a local area it does not represent another piece of the native ecosystem being lost. Broom inundating native prairies and other open sites still containing native elements does.

How did the native animals get by during the thousands of years Himalayan and evergreen blackberries were not present?

Rosa gymnocarpa, R. nutkana and R. pisocarpa are all native here. Other roses found growing wild are not.

Himalayan blackberries come on when the salal, huckleberries and amelanchier are all on or coming on. There's no need to have the Himalayan blackberries around for wildlife, the native berries are plenty.

In my neighborhood the Him. blackberries shelter: norway rats (nonnative), cottontails (nonnative), English sparrows (nonnative), feral cats (nonnative), possums (nonnative), and raccoons (native but thriving with human presence).

Wild roses - which ones?? there are a lot of roses growing 'wild'. As bboy has noted, there are three native rose species. The rugosa roses are not native but they do grow all along the roads - planted. I don't see much spread in this area although I know it does spread on its own in other areas. Then there are various species roses that were planted in gardens and are spreading on their own, but mostly I see the natives.

And yes the quail are cute, but not native.

I don't see broom or Him. blackberry invaded sites developing into native plant communities myself. Few plants can compete with them, and I really see no evidence of native wildlife using broom for anything they couldn't have gotten from the displaced native plants. Then one has to wonder about what nutritional value wildlife is getting from broom - it contains alkaloids after all, which is why it stinks. Sure bees are feeding on the nectar, but is it good for them, or doing harm the bees don't know about?? This is a known issue with some plants poisoning bees. Honeybees after all are not native here, and the native bumblebees are not co-evolved with broom. If mammals are browsing on it, the same question - are they getting nutritional value from it, or are they being poisoned by it? Hungry animals will browse on things they wouldn't normally eat, and animals are not always aware of when they're being poisoned, if the dose is very low.

Realistically - if deer do feed on broom then there wouldn't be so much of it!!! deer populations are enormous after all, and deer browsing do considerable damage to cultivated lands and restoration plantings. I have yet to see any evidence of deer browse on broom on any infested lands I've worked on, even with plenty of sign of deer presence, and of deer browsing on other plants.

Personally I don't care for the berries of Him. blackberry at all. Watery and tasteless. The native blackberry is divine.

Wow, I started a really interesting discussion over this! The debate continues.... but I think I am on the side of eliminating the blackberries (definitely) and the broom (possibly.) However, I doubt if that will happen.... great to hear from everyone!

Kill them both! Kill them dead! They are invasive predators that are displacing our native plants. I've heard that Oregon State University has an insect that feeds on scotch broom seeds -- has anybody heard of this? Supposedly, over time, the insect (a tiny beetle?) will defeat the scotch broom.

As for blackberries, ... I've finally relented and bought Crossbow. I've pulled the canes. Now, I'm supposed to prune the canes at ground level and PAINT the Crossbow (Agent Orange?) onto the cut end immediately, to kill off the root systems. The label says to mix the Crossbow with kerosene or deisel as a carrier. Not water, which is the carrier for spray applications.

Yikes! I'd rather use water. Does anybody know why I can't use water? I don't want to use deisel because of the smell, and kerosene isn't much better.

Or you could try spraying the intact tops with glyphosate in the fall.

There are surfactants that can be used in place of the deisel, etc that are much more benign in the environment. Methylated seed oil, for one.

I just ate a tasty slice of Himalayan blackberry pie, boy was it good. Almost as good as our native trailing blackberry, Rubus ursinus. But like I said before, I use to make money picking blackberries. By the time peeling cascara bark was done, the native blackberry became ripe, early July. The buyer paid more for them than Himalayan and evergreen blackberries, but it took all day just to pick a half gallon. In the same time period I could pick five gallons of the exotic berries. But then the native berry is long done by the time the exotic berries are ready, so they didn't conflict. I went from cascara, to native blackberry, to Himalayan/evergreen blackberries. The city lot I am living on now, when I moved here I had to fight hard to get rid of mostly English ivy and some Himalayan blackberries, except my partner made me keep a small patch in an unused spot. She loves them and to humor her I kept them. Now I get to eat tasty blackberry pie. Thank goodness I am not as closed minded as you guys.

BTW, reg, all those animals are also found in native brush beds, so what's your point. Besides those animals you mentioned, bears, deer, coyotes I mentioned before, I have also seen native voles, field mice, and mountain beaver, Aplodontia rufa. That's not counting all the native and nonnative birds that feed and live within the vines. I noticed you didn't say anything about evergreen blackberries. That is also on the Weed Board list, an overkill as far as I am concerned. That species rarely is found in any great numbers like Himalayan blackberries.

I don't know how old you are or how long you have lived in the PNW reg pnwl, but like I said before I was born here and have called the PNW home for sixties years. These three species of plants have been there as long as I can remember and have not been a problem and have actually been of value to man kind. And I have seen abandoned gravel pits that were populated with Scott broom and blackberries turn into alder, black cottonwood, willow forest, with Sitka spruce, hemlock, and douglas fir coming up through the deciduous trees, so I don't think you have been around long enough to see that transition, or you haven't paid attention to it.

As for rain2fall, all I can say is WOW, what a rocket scientist. I didn't know that Scott broom and blackberries eat meat, "...invasive predators...", I learn something new all the time. You must work for the weed boards with adjective usage like that.

Himalayan and native blackberries are not all there is available to gardeners. An assortment of cultivated varieties that have not so far gone wild to cover thousands of acres with nuisance growth are easily found in season at local outlets. And new selections continue to be named and introduced.

The presence of some kinds of native wildlife in a patch of blackberries or broom does not establish that suitability of a site for all wildlife has been improved over that which was present before the plot was inundated by the weed species, or even that previous levels of wildlife presence are being maintained. There may not even be as many individuals of the same species observed making use of the place with the pest plant thicket being on it as there would be otherwise.

>As for rain2fall, all I can say is WOW, what a rocket scientist. I didn't know that Scott broom and blackberries eat meat, "...invasive predators...", I learn something new all the time. You must work for the weed boards with adjective usage like thatIn the same statement you are repeating usage of the erroneous combination "Scott broom" that you have used here multiple times.

There is no rational or logical justification for maintaining or encouraging recognized invasive species and arguments that they "provide for wildlife" or produce tasty fruit or attractive flowers simply do not carry any significance when weighed against the documented disruption they cause.

Speaking of rocket scientists, the term "predator" does not necessarily mean meat eater - it is derived from the Latin praedâtôrius, meaning 'plunder'. And since one of the definitions of plunder is to take by force or destroying others for one's own gain, in a broad sense, any invasive species, plant OR animal, can be termed a predator. Keep reading, issafish, maybe you actually will learn something new. But I'm not holding out a lot of hope.