Ordering seeds and reading about plants is fun in itself. It is like being a kid and making up your list for Santa. Anticipation is part of the fun of gardening. I am doing it too.

you are so right! I feel just like a kid hoping and dreaming of what good things are in store for me. And I dont want to miss any of it. Want lists need lists wish lists oh my!
Kim

I have the same problem. I have more seeds than I know what to do with. I MUST CUT DOWN. I would like to find a few things that I really like and plant the same thing each year, but I really doubt that will happen.

Larry

How many seed packets do you have? My only response to this question is semi-hysterical laughter, followed by this comment "too many to count". I know that I have at least 175 packets of tomato seed alone, with the oldest packets being maybe 4 years old. Tomato seeds generally are viable for 5-10 years so I try to use up all of a packet by the time it is about 6 or 7 years old or give it to someone else who will use it because the seed viability decreases a bit each year even under proper storage conditions. Some other types of seed only give good germination for 1-4 years, so I don't stockpile as many of those types.

I also do raise tomato plants for some of my gardening friends here in my area, so I'm not just planting for myself. I often raise varieties for friends that I rarely plant in my own garden because it is varieties they like.

With plants that are at risk of freezing in spring's erratic temperatures like tomatoes and peppers, I raise twice as many plants for myself as I need. For example, if I intend to put 100 plants in the ground, I grow 200 of them. After I plant, that leaves me back-up plants for a little while that I can use to replace my in-ground plants if they all get caught by a late freeze. Once a few weeks have passed, I give away most of the back-up plants, often at this forum's annual plant swap/Spring Fling but sometimes to local friends whose plants have frozen or been eaten or whatever.

If I have odds and ends of seed packets that are getting too old to be really viable for much longer, I'll mix them together and sow them in a wild area outside the fenced garden and let them sprout and grow. They'll attract beneficial insects, feed wildlife or serve as trap crops for undesirable pest insects and at least they are getting used that way instead of being thrown into the trash. I also will mix together odds and ends of leafy crops as "chicken treats" planting them in multiple containers that the chickens cannot access. When the plants are big enough for the chickens to eat them, I set a tray or flat of the plants in their fenced chicken run and they have a big party. A few days later, I'll replace that now-destroyed planting with another tray of chicken treats and so on. It is a great way to use up seeds of greens that are starting to get too old to give great germination. And, since chickens are gonna do what chickens are gonna do, those leftover seeds turned into chicken treats will make it into the garden eventually as compost partially made from the chicken poop/chicken coop litter/bedding.

How many seeds of each variety are planted each year? That is impossible to answer because the number might vary from 5 seeds to 200 or 300 per variety. How many squash plants does one family need? Not many. How many corn plants? A whole lot more. So, it just depends on what you're growing and how much of it you want.

How many of anything I plant also varies depending on whether it is something I want to can, freeze or dehydrate or if I only want it for fresh eating. If I wasn't going to can or freeze corn, I wouldn't plant several hundred plant of one variety because we couldn't eat it all when it matured at about the same time. I'd plant a couple of dozen plants each of an early, mid-season and late variety to spread out a smaller harvest if I only wanted corn for fresh eating. (Well, the raccoons may eat it all before we get any of it, but that's a separate issue....)

When planning tomato plantings, I take into consideration approximately how many pints or quarts I want to put up, then I estimate (based on experience with the canning varieties) how many tomatoes I'll need based on the standard number of pounds you need for each canner batch. Then I decide how many plants I need to get that many pounds at a minimum. I'll plant at least that many plants and often some extra ones just in case. I always have the option of just saying "I've canned all I am going to can" and then stopping, yanking out the canners that still are producing and planting something else there, but I cannot wave a wand and make more canning tomatoes appear our of thin air if I didn't plant enough of them.

Also, it would vary depending on the seed germination rates I expect from a given variety. I know from experience, that with fresh tomato and pepper seed I normally get germination rates of 90-100%, so if I want 10 plants of a variety, I'll plant 10-12 seeds. With something like okra that has a much lower mimimum germination standard (mandated by the government), I might sow two seeds for every one plant that I want. The older the seed gets, them more the viability drops (some seeds are only viable for a couple of years, others for much longer) so the more seeds I'll sow depending on the year for which the seed was packed.

Collecting the packets of seeds, planning your plantings, building a wish list and dreaming of the garden you'll have is fun, but it is easy to get carried away and buy far too many seeds than you'll ever plant.

I like having huge amounts of diversity in the garden. I'd rather have 10 kinds of basil than one, or 8 kinds of carrots instead of 1 or 2. In any given year, some varieties will outperform others. Planting a diverse mix of varieties increases the odds that you'll get a good harvest from some of the varieties you plant. I also succession sow because I don't want to have too much of anything at one given time. When you succession sow every few weeks, you use a lot of seeds, but of course, you get a harvest that is more spread out. I like to plant 5 or 6 kinds of watermelons that have varying DTMs. You know, a family is not likely to eat 30 watermelons in one week, so you want plantings that will spread out the watermelon harvest over 2 to 4 months. I always try to plan everything so that I am getting watermelons, for example, from July through October instead of getting a ton of them only in July or August. These are the things I consider when planning which varieties to plant and how many of each.

One exception is that if you are deliberately planting food for planned food preservation. In that case, you have to plant with the food preservation in mind. I do like to use jalapeno peppers that have DTMs in the same range so that I'll have a lot of peppers for canning. However, with cabbage, unless you want to make sauerkraut or freezer slaw, how many cabbages can one family eat in a fairly brief period? Consider those things when you are planning how many of any veggie variety to plant. I'll plant cabbages with different DTMs so that the cabbage harvest is spread out over a few months instead of all occurring in the same couple of weeks.

With herbs and flowers, I always sow a lot more seeds that we have room for, but we are on rural acreage with a lot of flower beds and veggie beds scattered around, so I always have spots where I can cram a few more flowers and herbs into the ground or into containers.

Speaking of cabbage...I don't always grow cabbage (except Chinese cabbage), but I think Pinetree has the right idea in offering a Cabbage mix. Especially if you are planting only for fresh use, you can plant one package and get different maturity dates, and different colors and taste. Their mix has seven or more types in one package for $2.50.

Here is a link that might be useful: Pinetree Cabbage Mix

Thank you for the ideas. I think I will grow double what I need indoors and give away what I dont use. I have lots of room and time to do just that! Since I am so new to gardening with really only 1 good year under my belt I am inspired to do better this year and be more diligent, which is why I am constantly studying what y'all do. I understand it is personal choice and many times trial and error but I just was curious what other people do.

I did not realize seed germination went down that quickly. Its funny my first year gardening, which was a total flop, I thought you had to plant the whole package or throw it away.
Also was just curious how do you store/catorgorize your seeds?
Thanks Kim

Larry, before I found this forum, I planted a very limited number of varieties, mostly what the local feed store carried in unmarked envelopes for 25 cents apiece. (Now 50 cents, and I still buy a lot of seed there; all of it is well tested for this area.) The main exception was snap pea and broccoli seed which for years I ordered from Park's most usually or Burpee because the store didn't carry it. But now, NOW I know of dozens of catalogs and websites and I plant so much more of everything, tho still nothing like some people here. And many of the varieties I've learned about here are now favorites, especially tomatoes. So don't tell me you can go back now to simpler times. Neither of us will. I am no longer having to clothe and provide for 4 children so the kids' former support now goes to my seed habit.

Thats what I was thinking. Since my baby graduated last year I can spend alittle more money on seeds now. I too love a variety of veggies and herbs since that is most of my diet. But I dont want to get too carried away and have them go bad. I will have to pay attention to dates.

The mixed pkg for cabbage sounds perfect for me. I gave away most of my produce last year but plan on preserving alot more for the winter months this year.
Kim

luvncannin, I store my seeds in the freezer in ziplock bags. I store every kind together--lettuce, spinach, pepper, tomatoe, greenbeans etc and then I put those ziplock bags into larger ones--gallons, mostly--and label them with the time they need to be planted. IE Start in Greenhouse for peppers, tomatoes, broccoli, cabbage, peas. Another bag is labeled Start Early Outside and has carrots, beets, lettuce, spinach, radish etc. (These seeds also get started outside in the fall and even later in the greenhouse.) Another bag holds the late season direct seeded crops such as summer squash and green beans. Corn I usually buy enough for each year's planting and plant all of it. Another gallon bag holds the flowers and herbs, each in their quart bag.

That is a great idea. I never thought of that. My mind goes alphabetical but I like that plan better. Do the seeds last longer in the freezer?
I did see an idea that was cute to keep them in photo brag books. I figured it would take to many of the little books to hold them all.
Kim

I store all my seeds in ziplock bags. Then, I store the ziplock bags in those clear plastic boxes sized about the same size as a shoe box. One box has tomatoes, another one beans, another one cole crops, another one southern peas, etc. All the leaf crops are in one plastic box together, and another plastic box has all herbs, while another has all flowers. Then, all those labeled plastic boxes are stacked up into two Rubbermaid totes. The totes are stored in a cool, dry closet.

If the house burns down, everyone knows to grab the seed boxes first before fleeing the house. (Just kidding about that last part....)

I cannot store mine in the freezer because I keep it too full of preserved veggies and I have too many seeds. If I had rare seeds like George maintains, I'd store those in the freezer.

And, for zip-lock bags I either buy the snack-size, which fit nicely into my plastic boxes, or I buy even smaller ones on the jewelry/craft aisle at Wal-mart.

If you like mixes of seeds that will allow you to plant different varieties of one veggie, several seed companies offer them in mixed packages. In addition to Pinetree, there's Renee's Garden Seeds (she uses food dye to color code the seeds in mixed packages so you know which seeds are which) and Bountiful Gardens. I grow lots of varieties from all three of the companies I mentioned. Some other companies also offer seed blends, but most of them don't color code them like Renee does, so I tend to buy hers so I can plant an equal number of each variety.

I'm going to link her website so you can see her beautiful seed packets, which include quite a few mixes with multiple varieties in one packet. Don't blame me if visiting her website makes you want to order seeds. I grow one of her sweet pepper mixes and watermelon mixes every year, and her Sea of Red lettuce that I grew this fall is the most gorgeous dark red--almost a purplish black--that I've ever seen in lettuce. It stands out in a container of mixed green or green/red bicolor lettuces.

Dawn

Here is a link that might be useful: Renee's Garden Seeds

Thank you for more great ideas. I have been reading until my eyes became blurry.
Dawn I admire the way you plant which has been the way I am gardening kind of free and fun outside the box/row. It inspires me to continue gardening my way and ignore the naysayers.
I am going to plant a bunch of different varieties of each veggie and then have a preservation garden too. Hopefully I can get a tomato crop this year. My plants were so beautiful last year right up to the freeze. They were trying to put on about 3 weeks before it froze, poor things tried.
This year is going to be better.
kim

Larry and Dorothy, I think it should be called OGSOV (Oklahoma Gardeners Seed Ordering Virus). LOL

At one time, I only grew what we could eat fresh, froze a few things, and made salsa. Last year I did all of those things, plus dehydrated, then quit counting after we had canned 22 cases of jars. I didn't grow it all, but I grew a lot of it.

You will notice that I waited until after Dawn posted before I admitted to my seed stash. I first must add a disclaimer because I have some that are bags with only a few seeds that were trades or gifts from gardening friends and I counted them as a pack. I probably have some duplicates also since I sometimes buy another pack although I still may have a few seeds in an older pack. I did not count some grafting stock that I was gifted last year before my Spring went crazy and I didn't have time to do that. Having said that, I must admit that I have 154 packs..... of tomatoes.

I have a Willhite order that will be here this week, but I don't think I ordered tomatoes. LOL

I keep my vegetable seeds separate from the flower seeds. The vegetable seeds are in Zip-Lock freezer bags by type. Some are in quart bags and others are in gallons. The bags are stored in a Sterlite File Box. When my order comes in this week, I will sort it into those bags so things are easy to find when I am ready to plant. I think that the lid will probably close again after I get the Spring garden in. LOL

I think having seeds is great insurance and although I sometimes get carried away, I don't worry about it. The ones that I worry about are the 'doomsday prepers' that are stocking up on seed and have never planted a garden in their lives. They seem to think they can throw a few seeds on the hillside and live off of the great bounty of produce. In my opinion, 'great bounty' takes a lot of practice.

I must admit that some of the seeds I have is a 50# bag of winter wheat that I did not have time to plant. I guess I will have to save some of it to (blush) expand my garden.

Larry

Larry, I did plant some wheat last Fall. Well, I just sort of tossed it on the ground and it grew by itself. For a couple of months as we would drive around the area, I would laugh and say my wheat crop was taller than the field crops. Once I let the chickens into my garden, it didn't look so good anymore. I always have wheat berries because I grind it and cook with it all of the time. Lately I have been using a lot of white wheat for cooking.

What?!?!?! You want me to tell you how many packets of seeds I have? Here? In a public forum? For everyone to read? I'm more likely to post private details about Seedpapa. He'd get over that, but he'd divorce me if he knew how many of those banana boxes labeled "fabric" actually contain seeds.

Lol Seedmama!

Seedmama that is so funny.
I have become aware of how many different varieties are out there and I really want one of each. Reallistically I will try to order only 20 new pkgs this year, mostly beans and peas.
Thanks all for the great storage ideas and the ok to keep and maybe even "hoard" seeds.
Kim

Seedmama, lol lol lol

Kim, Hmmm. I wonder if you really know how many seed varieties there are out there. Seed Savers Exchange and its members alone have themselves distributed the seeds to over 20,000 different varieties. You're gonna have a big collection if you want one packet of each. : )

Dawn

I hate to even admit this in print but 10 years ago I had no clue there were vegetables and flowers besides what was sold at the big box stores. I was city through and through until illness forced me to start studying nutrition. Now this whole world of possibility and variety has opened up and I feel like I have been turned loose in Mr. Mooneys candy store.
As i have said I am very new, very very new.
kim

Well, if that's your worst confession you'll ever have to make, I think you'll be okay.

Why would you have known there were more varieties out there? Why would anyone know that? We humans tend to accumulate knowledge based on what interests us, so until a person starts getting interested in growing from seed, why would they even think about how many different plant varieties can be grown from seed?

One thing that I learned when I started growing heirloom, open-pollinated varieties was that some of the varieties my dad grew when I was a kid were now considered rare heirlooms. At one point I found Moon and Stars watermelon, grew it and surprised him. He had told me long before I found it that his family once grew Moon and Stars, but that it had gone out of production and "you can't grow it any more". I was thrilled to know it really hadn't disappeared after all.

It is fun to grow many different varieties, but if I get too much into the different varieties and trying them all, I find it hard to remain focused on the ones that produce best here, so I am trying to cut back on some of the experimentation. I'll never completely stop though. I like growing a few things every year that are new to me. You never know when one of those varieties will become a keeper. I am more interested in open-pollinated, heirloom varieties than the hybrid varieties. I try to not get too attached to any single hybrid variety because seed companies often abruptly drop them without warning and if you feel like you "must" grow that variety, then what?

For years I planted only hybrid broccoli because I didn't find any OP ones with short DTM. But this year I received a Territorial catalog and found an OP with as short as Packman, so I ordered it. Don't know how well it will produce here so am still planting Packman, but in the spirit of experimentation I picked up from this forum, I will try. Got Pinetree catalog too and am so tempted by all those CHEAP seed packets that I know I will be ordering something. Probably lettuce, which I am really enjoying experimenting with. The local feed store carries about five varieties--for years I planted Black seeded Simpson and Red Sails and a couple others only and had no idea the variety available out there. (For those years my main concern was the budget. With only one income and 4 kiddos to support, we gardened on a shoestring--but on a grand scale.)I don't remember ordering either of those catalogs, or several others I've received this year. Someone sold my address. I also get gobs of other catalogs I didn't order. Today a catalog featuring silk longjohns and other apparel, at prices way out of my range.

Luvncannin, for years all my leftover seeds fit into a shoebox divided with alphabetic cards. I stored the box in the coolest bedroom closet in the house. But when I outgrew the shoebox and started investing in more seed, I wanted it to last as long as possible so moved to the freezer especially for the summer. Sometimes in the winter I store them in an outside building that stays about 40 degrees most of the time.

Dawn,

You mentioned that the seeds of some vegetables tend to be viable for 5-10 years and yet others only 1-4 years. Not asking for a comprehensive list, but I'd sure love to know which tend to last a long time and which tend to last a short time. I just assumed they all had about the same longevity.

Charlie

I've linked a seed viability list below.

I have found most seeds will last a bit longer than the time given on these viability lists if the seeds are stored either in a cold deep freeze in airtight containers, or if stored in airtight containers in a cool, dry location where the humidity does not fluctuate constantly.

Sometimes once seed gets old, you can use various pretreatments to help induce germination, and some experienced growers can 'wake up' tomato seeds that are 15-20 years or older, although the average gardener probably lacks the experience to do that.

As seeds age, they don't just abruptly stop germinating all of a sudden because they have passed some mystical expiration date. Rather, they will germinate more slowly and a lower percentage of them will germinate as they age.

All of this knowledge about how long seed will last doesn't help as much as you'd think it would. In the USA, the seed packets that have dates on them usually have dates that say something like "Packed for 2013". That does not necessarily mean the seed grew in 2012 and was harvested and packed and is now on shelves, all nice and fresh. It could be seed from 2011 or 2010 that has been held in storage and was recently packed/shipped for 2013. When I buy Franchi-Sementi seed packets imported from Italy, they do not show the "Packed For...." date. They have an actual Expiration Date. I know that those seed packets usually have an expiration date 2, 3 or 4 years out in the future depending on what type of vegetable, herb, flower or fruit seed they happen to contain. Even with that expiration date, we consumers still have no way of knowing how fresh the seed is....or isn't. At least we do know how long the packet says it still should be viable.

Personally, (to quote Dr. Seuss), "If I ran the world".....I'd rather have them put the date of the year that the seed was harvested on the packet. I think they are afraid most people would misunderstand that, though, and think the seeds had expired already.

Dawn

Here is a link that might be useful: Seed Viability List

Thank you all for this great info. I havent decided how to keep my seed but I definately want to come up with a system before I get any more.

mulberryknob I too am searching for the short DTM Op varieties. I really want to get my garden in as early as possible and done early.I will probably be taking on a couple extra jobs this summer while school is out.

Dawn thanks for that list. That will be helpful knowing which seeds must be planted or shared. My seeds are mostly only 1 year old.
The first year out here I planted the whole pkg because I didnt know. Drought/bad soil killed everything. Well I studied and studied and read everything at the library about gardening, and found gw and lurked here for awhile.I learned I did not have to plant the whole pkg in one year, among other things. So I have some seeds from last year but now I am learning from y'all about all these amazing varieties and colors and well I am hooked. I have stacks of seed catalogs to drool over.It is by far the healthiest addiction I have ever had but I can tell I should probably set some limits huh?
I also have "infected" my gardening sidekick a 7 year old neighbor. He helped me so much last spring/summer and loves it as much as I do sooooo I gave him a seed catalog to look over. I did apologize to his parents but the its too late. He is hooked too.
Kim

Kim,

Sharing gardening with a child is absolutely the most wonderful thing you can do. I have found that most kids love to be out in a garden, even if they're only chasing butterflies or dragonflies, watching the frogs hop around, or are bringing you handfuls of dandelions from the pasture so you can "plant these" in your garden.

About the same time we were looking for land to buy up here in OK, Tim's best friend became a first-time grandpa. By the time we had built the house, moved here and planted a garden, he had an grandson who was old enough to love everything about our place. He loved collecting eggs from the henhouse and taking them home (prior to collecting his own eggs from our coop, he wouldn't even eat eggs, but all that changed....), helping harvest veggies and fruit to take home to eat, and watching the fish and frogs in the lily pond. A child who has a garden (whether his own, or the garden next door) is a very lucky child indeed.

Dawn

Dawn its so true. His joy is mine too. Sharing a carrot and onion breakfast straight from the garden last spring is my favorite memory, along with watching his eyes when he dug potatoes. It makes all the expense ache and pain worth every second doesnt it.Of course I thoroughly enjoy it myself too.
Kim

Hi Kim:

A couple of years ago, I asked the same question: "How do you store all your seeds? I'd like to have a system that will allow me to find what I want fast." A friend from the Wintersowing Forum described her system. I liked it, and tweaked it to meet my needs.

VEGETABLE SEED

Sort and store seed packets by season / soil temperature when seeds are sown (cool germinators and warm germinators) and by food type (e.g. leafy greens, root crops). I use ziplocs.

"Warm TPO" holds tomato, pepper, okra, and eggplant seeds. "Warm - SBC" has seeds for squash, beans, corn, cukes, gourds, melons.

"Cool - Root Crops" holds seeds for beets, radishes, turnips, carrots, onions. "Cool - Greens" has seeds for kale, collards, lettuce, peas, and other greens.

These four categories correspond to the main waves of seed sowing.

I store the seeds in each category in gallon ziploc bags and label each bag (Cool - Leafy Greens - kale, collards, mustard, cabbage, broccoli). For some vegetables (e.g., beans, tomatoes) and flowers (e.g., zinnias, poppies, cosmos, sunflowers), I have a ton of seed. When I have many packets (like tomatoes), I put these seeds in a separate sandwich bag, label it (stick on label or 3 x 5 card), and put it inside the large gallon ziploc. This system makes it easy to find what you need.

As my seed addiction grew, the system grew with me. I started with quart ziplocs for the four categories. Now I use gallon ziplocs for the categories, and individual sandwich sized or quart ziplocs for some vegetable seeds within in a category - tomatoes, peppers, beans, peas, etc.

HERBS

I grow a few herbs, less than vegetables or flowers so I store all herb seeds (warm and cool germinators) in a one quart ziploc bag.

FLOWER SEED

If you have flower seeds, the system is similar. You store seeds by sowing time /soil temperature (warm or cool) and type (perennials, annuals).

The four categories correspond to the sowing seasons.

Hardy perennials (HP) are sown in cold months, may need cold stratification. Hardy annuals (HA) are sown in Feb-March (in warmer areas, we can sow hardy annuals in the fall). Tender perennials (TP) are sown after your last frost (for me, that's March, you may have a later date). Tender annuals (TA) are sown after your last frost.

Inside the main category bags, you can sort things further (Tomatoes > Container" or "Tomatoes > Main season" or "Hardy Annuals > Bee food"). I doubt you will have so much seed that you need to sort in that much detail soon - it usually takes years to amass so much seed.

I used to grow a lot of perennials from seed- one year, I planted seed for 2,000-3,000 perennials. That was one of my big mistakes - it's easy to plant seeds, but it's not so easy to transplant hundreds or thousands of seedlings.

Last year, I was expanding the vegetable gardens. That took all my time and energy so I didn't sow any perennial seed. This year, I continue to expand the vegetable gardens but I want to grow some perennials. I may plant the young perennial seedlings in vegetable garden beds.

Hope these notes help you!

Pam