Reed, Heat seriously impacts late varieties some years, but not so much in other years. It just depends on what sort of a roller coaster ride we're on in any given year. In 2011, in the county in which I live, our high temps in late July and August were in the 108-116 range. Do you want to guess how the tomatoes did during those few weeks? It was brutal.

In the summer of 2012, we had generally cooler temperatures though sometimes not by much and a little bit more summer rainfall, though it still was quite hot and dry, and the late varieties overall did better.

Who can even begin to guess what the summer of 2013 has in store for us?I I know I cannot.

Why don't you post the list of late varieties you're interested in and let folks here who have grown them in our climate comment on what they've observed with those varieties?

Dawn

Dawn, I would also like to mention that I've had a Brad's Black Heart come up potato leaved. There is absolutely zero chance it's mis-labled. Shall I see what it turns into or shall I pull it?

Reed

Reed, How much of a gambler are you? Because I love PL varieties and find they often seem to resist foliar disease much better here than RLs do, I'd be tempted to let it grow and see what you get. It depends, though. If your heart is set (no pun intended) on growing Brad's Black Heart, there would not be any reason to keep the PL seedlings except from curiosity. Of course, if you grow out the PL plants and get a PL plant with a black oxheart, then you could call it Reed's Black Heart Potatoleaf or something.

If you feel space-challenged and don't want to give up a spot for an unknown variety grown as a curiousity, then yank out those PLs and don't give them another thought. I have more space than the average home gardener so I'm more inclined to let the oddballs grow.

Do you know what your seed source for BBH was? If it is saved seed from someone who kept meticulous records, they might be able to tell you what PL, if any, they had growing near the BBH in the year the seed was saved.

As far as I know, BBH is completely stable. Or, at least, I haven't heard of it being unstable. You know, sometime these things just happen. KBX is a PL that came from a planting of Kellogg's Breakfast seed and many people really like KBX. So, I guess it could be worth growing out to see if it would produce something worthy.

Dawn

Dawn,

The seeds came from Brad Gates so I'd assume he'd have the records? If he didn't have anything near it would it be safe to assume it's a mutation? I have four of the BBH so I'm not worried about it. I'm going to graft two of them onto Maxifort rootstock.

Reed,

Oh, if it is from Brad's farm, I'd expect it to be stable. I've always gotten the expected variety from his seeds so assume he produces seed with some sort of isolation mechanism in place, whether he uses distance isolation, isolation cages, barrier crops or whatever. I don't know what isolation distances he uses, but he likely could tell you what he had growing close to it if you want to pursue the matter.

It could be a mutation, but because bees and other pollinators can fly quite a distance in a day, it also could be a cross. There isn't any way to be sure unless the seeds were raised in screened isolation cages. If they were, then you'd be safe in assuming a mutation. You still cannot be certain though, because even if he uses screened isolation cages, you still don't know how the seed was processed. Sometimes seed gets mixed up during the harvesting, cleaning, and packing process. I'm not saying that happened in this instance, only that it always is a possibility.

Tomato blossoms are perfect and pollinate themselves internally although pollinators can travel freely and introduce pollen from one variety to another so it could be that sort of cross-pollination gave some crossed seed. I don't know how often random mutations occur versus how often insect-induced cross-pollination occurs. Either one is a possibility unless you learn that isolation cages were used to produce the seed. If that were the case, then you can safely assume a mutation or a seed-handling mishap as the seeds were processed before being sold. Sometimes when these things happen, no one can figure out why or how it occurred.

By contrast, a home gardener who bagged their blossoms and saved seed only from the bagged blossoms would know if they had an off type, because they could exclude the possibility of cross-pollination. Then, they'd have to think about what else they were growing at the same time they saved that seed and would need to rule out the possibility of mis-handled or mis-labeled saved seed. If they could rule that out, then they could have confidence they had a spontaneous mutation. With purchased seed, you just never know what happened because generally more than one person is involved in the seed production process from the initial planting of the seed for production plants thru gathering, processing and packaging the seed, and one has no way of knowing what happened for sure during each step of the seed production process.

Reed I think playing with an unexpected potato leafed tomato is right up your alley. If you make your 2014 grow list now what are you going to do for fun next year? I think it might be discouraging to plant too many late varieties in one year. Why not make a balanced list so you will have success in any weather.