i hope that they see this as a wakeup call. this is great news. i would like to see their seeds disintregrate into thin air. with this news maybe even farmers will wake up.

Yay! Serves them right!

@jessaka I've known several farmers who adamantly defend Monsanto. They like the "ease" they get from their crops. Well, I tell �m where they can shove it cuz we're creating a REVOLUTION with our own gardens. hehe

i have a friend whose husband's works for monsanto and thinks they are a great company and protect its workers from the poisons and pay the latinos great wages. when i learned this,it didn't make our friendship any easier; it was difficult anyway. at that time i was on the bandwagon about povertry and the latinos getting slave wages. i have been on one against poisons also, just as her believe that roundup doesn't ruin the soil and you can plant right after spraying.

i seldom use roundup and reserve it for something like poison ivy.

Please.

Jessaka, if RU worked on Bermuda Grass, I'd use it, but it doesn't. I stay away from chemicals because I have a butterfly and moth garden, and provide food and shelter for other critters. I grow plants that the butterflies lay their eggs on, eat, and grow. I also grow nectar plants for the adults, and for the hummingbirds. I grow berry and seed producing plants for the birds. I provide water for the birds, too. They sometimes dine on my caterpillars if I don't raise them in protected environment, but I try to view it all as a sustainable gardem for them. I try to work WITH Mother Nature, not against Her.

BT Corn is dangerous to the other catsrpillars, not just the corn earworms and rootworms.

Susan

Susan, I don't know if you were meaning roundup doesn't work on bermuda or if RU meant something else. Roundup does works very well on bermuda. It totally kills it with a 2% solution and it will only come back by spreading from nearby areas. The roots are 100% killed where the spray hits.

We use generic roundup in a 3-ft radius twice per year around young pecan trees and it increases growth by about 30% and brings trees into production about 2 years earlier.

Scott, I used it 3Xs in the same area last year, in 2-week intervals, and it turned brown and then regrew with a vengeance. So, it didn't work well for me at all. Is there a secret to it that I don't know?

Susan

I agree Round up works well on bermuda for me. And I know that is what the recreation dept uses here to kill it when reseeding with another variety. I spray two times 7-10 days apart and have always had close to 100% kill if not 100%. You need to go to an elevator, TSC or some other farm store. I do know several who have tried to kill it with what they sell at Wally World ect and it hasn't worked. I have even shared some of mine with 2 coworkers who had tried the Wally World mix and after it failed they used the generic formulation I purchase at the local elevator and it worked for both. I'm not sure what the concentration of the Wally World mix is but must be a lot weaker. Jay

I have had no problem with Glyphosate using it as directed. I do have to keep applying it because of seeds germinating and grass spreading from surrounding areas. I keep it on hand all the time, but it will kill tomatoes in a heart-beat. I us it on poison ivy but I am not sure it is the best product to kill poison ivy.

The highway department around here uses it with a product called Ground Zero and one other product, or at least that is what an employee told me when I ask them not to spray the area close to my house. They spray from a truck and I was concerned about spray drift.

Larry

What I use is 41% Glyphosate, have had good luck with it from wally world and from Farmers co-op. I think the names I have used is Kills All, Eliminator and Round Up, I did not notice a lot of difference in it as long as it was 41%. I have seen some at a less percentage, and maybe a little stronger, but the 41% is all I can remember using

Larry

I don't really like to use it, but will in a pinch. Usually I put it in a container, wear gloves, and sponge it on to the mowed area so it doesn't drift. I have tried to kill small saplings with it by cutting them short, opening the trunk and pouring it down inside into the fresh wood. They all grew back, but with deformed leaves and branches. I guess I need to locate a product that will kill small trees because they tend to grow in my fence line.

And, back to the GMO corn, that is nonsense. If it kills the insect, it will probably kill me, but just at a slower pace. I refused free sweet corn this year because it was grown adjacent to a GMO field corn patch. I have stopped buying canola oil, and will also limit soy products in my diet. Those who are comfortable with it can eat them, but I'm not comfortable.

Larry,
After the coworkers had the problems with that bought at Wally World I checked when I was at the local one closest to me the next time and the only product they had was around 29.6 percent or very close to that. And that is what my coworkers bought. I just went and checked as I was sure what I bought from my co-op ran close to 50%. The jug I have now that I use to control the bind weed at my property line is 48.7 and an old empty jug of another name was 49.6%. So a lot of difference between what our co-op and TSC offers and what Wally World offers here. That is another of my complaints about Wally World. What you find at one you won't find at another. Jay

I bought my Round-Up at Lowe's, I believe. Under the brand name. I need to check the percentage. I really don't like to use it at all. I wait for a day with very minimal to no wind (does that ever happen in OK?) to apply it because I don't want risk it drifting to any other plant material.

I think Dawn posted something maybe a couple years ago on the things we eat (from the grocery at least) that are probably GMO products. Other than corn, the only product I know for sure that is genetically modified is soybeans. But I know there are others.

What often happens when they create something that targets (I'll use caterpillar for ease of explanation) something like caterpillars of Gypsy Moths, for example, it also affects larvae of other harmless butterfly or moth caterpillars as well as the larvae of beneficials and/or natural predators of the Gypsy Moth. The chem or bio weapon, thus, far outreaches the scope of its original intent. We may not know the future affects of BT Corn for some time yet. As the old saying goes, don't burn down the barn to kill the rats.

And as Carol mentioned, who knows how it will affect we consumers yet. For these reasons alone, I want to grow my own food.

Many of us are impatient humans, not wanting to take a "wait and see" approach, allowing Nature to intervene and do her own thing, as Nature often does after we have exhausted our arsenal of sprays, powders, foams, drenches, gases, and traps. Cough, cough, sputter, gasp. Yes, we are reverting to our Cowboy within, and have become trigger happy, yippy kye yay! "I kilt more bugs than you have, Naybor!"

Most of us have become more resposible in the last few years,. considering what the impact might be before picking up that Dust can or spray gun. Thank goodness.

Susan (now stepping down from her band wagon)

We each have to do our own research and make our own personal decisions on what we grow and eat. The concern I have with Round up ready products is it is sprayed on living crops that continue to live instead of killing the crop like it has in the past. Minute amounts have been found in the corn seed and in animals that have ate this corn or soy bean product. I was sent a link earlier this year about it by a local irrigated farmer who has grown Round up ready corn. He is concerned enough he is searching for alternatives. The problem is a farmer has to make money to continue to farm and his options many times are few. I still have the link he sent me. Like I said each has to make up their own mind about what they feel is safe. I had an uncle who was a spray pilot who handled chemicals in the 70s and 80s who died before he was 50 of cancer. Many of his family feel his exposure may of contributed to it. Again we will never know. But why I may be more careful than others. But try not to be a radical who spreads fear. Round Up ready Alfalfa is another crop that has just been approved to grow. I will be careful not to feed any myself. I spray very cautiously and on a limited basis. But it is the only way I can effectively keep the bind weed at my fence line. I remember when I went to work at my current employment 37 years ago. Many of the chemicals we handled on a daily basis that was deemed safe then is now considered highly toxic. And one reason we have had to do soil clean ups and drill monitoring wells on neighboring property to monitor the travel of it although the amounts are still way below accepted gov't levels. So with that being said I'm more careful about what I grow and eat. That is one reason I'm trying growing my own onion plants. That way I know they aren't sprayed with a post emergent. Again the chemicals used by onion growers is deemed safe but I like to eliminate risks if practical. Jay

My younger brother died a little over 2 years ago. He had no problem getting a VA disability check because he worked on airplanes in Vietnam after they had made there spraying runs in the 1960's. They said the exact type of cancer he had was caused by Agent Orange, which I think is 2 4 5 T, which is no longer sold in the U.S.. He was not exposed to Agent Orange for long, but it looks as tho that is what killed him.

Larry

Sorry Larry. Many were exposed to it, and my husband says he slept right beside the storage area for 50 or 60 days.

There are scary herbicides that once were sprayed out of crop dusters in the US. If you have ever watched a crop duster, you know how many places that stuff went in addition to the crop it was aimed for. All of those were approved at one time also.

Jay, I haven't studied the alfalfa issue but have read a few articles that indicated that it was approved once before but then quickly pulled back, but now was out there again.

Although the seed issue isn't a problem to home gardeners now, I am concerned about what it is doing to the seed supply and the pollinators. I watched a video the other day which was a researcher who has studied the effects on the fertility of animals, and not just the four legged kind.

Think of all the pesticides that detroyed so many other caterpillars, etc, other than the targeted pests back before bt corn became widespread. We are saving so many more beneficials and other non-targerted insects/etc. now that I believe the benefits far, far outweigh the risks in what we can measure so far. And that says nothing about the cost savings.

I have never had any bermuda live after getting hit with glyphosate as long as the grass is actively growing between Memorial Day and first frost, and as long as I have a surfactant and no rain falls in 24 hrs. I never spray after about 4pm because it might not dry before the dew forms, and I never spray if the target is not healthy and green. I have used 4 different brands, mostly 40% strength which I dilute to between 2% and 4% before spraying.

Well, that might have been my problem, Scott. I think I was spraying in early April last year, trying to clear a bed for my Zinnia seeds, so it would have been before May. Okay, I know what a surfactant is, but didn't know I needed to use one. Recommendations?

Thanks for the info, Scott, really appreciate you helping me get to the bottom of my problem.

Susan

I think most of what you buy in small bottles already has good surfactant (check label), but I think you can add some more to get a better stick. I use large, expensive bottles of surfactant for ag purposes and will add a drop sometimes to my small containers of glyphosate. I don't know if basic soap would work or if you can find small quantities for sale at retail stores.

I normally use crop oil concentrate when I apply any chemical. Mainly because that is what the specialist for our local co-op suggests. He did tell me once that you can use dish washing soap and it will work decently also. I have used it a few times when I was out of the crop oil and it seemed to work fine. Jay

I think I see spreader-sticker type products sold in smallish bottles every year at Tractor Supply and other feed stores here.

I have used dawn liquid for years as a surfactant and it works well for most things and its cheap .Clover seems to be the hardest plant to break the surface tension on.

I love my clover patches, so won't be attacking those. They are also larval host plants for several species of butterflies, and they provide nectar for the honeybees.

But dish soap is something I easily find. There is no Tractor Supply near me nor other farm supply for that matter. I am deep in the center of OKC! Most of them are in outlying areas far from me,

Thanks for the tips everyone!

Susan