Shekanahh,

In general, I like Fine Gardening magazine just fine and feel it is a very reputable publication.

I noticed that the linked article refers to "pruning" of tomato plants. However, you have to remember that this magazine is targeted to a broad national audience and that the general information in it may apply to people in many regions, but not to all. That's how I feel about pruning tomatoes. Let me preface my statements by saying that arguments for and against pruning of tomato plants can lead to conflicts that make the Civil War look like a minor squabble. However, I am absolutely against pruning and I'll explain why.

1. The fruit on pruned plants are more vulnerable to sunscald. While heavy pruning is a technique sometimes employed by people in milder climates than ours, it is not necessarily a good idea here.

Due to our intense sunlight and high temperatures, tomatoes sometimes get more sun than they can handle and they sunburn, which in tomatoes is generally called sunscald. Sunscald can ruin a tomato. Since sunscald is already a risk for fruit on tomatoes with all their naturally-occurring foliage, clearly it becomes a much greater risk for plants that have had foliage pruned away. The more foliage you prune away, the more fruit you'll lose to sunscald in our climate. If you prune away enough foliage, you'll lose every tomato to sunscald.

2. People who favor pruning argues that it gives them larger fruit, but I've never seen that happen except as practiced by people who are going to ultimately grow one tomato per plant in an effort to get a super heavyweight that will win a "Giant Tomato" contest.

The only way to get significantly larger fruit is to remove all but 4 to 5 fruits from the plant (the way people do when they are attempting to raise extra-large tomatoes for Giant Tomato contests). As the fruit mature and enlarge, the Giant Tomato growers gradually remove the smallest tomato left every few days until they have one left--and that is the tomato they'll enter in the contest.

The Giant Tomato growers generally do prune because they want the plant to put ALL of its energy into that handful of tomatoes which eventually becomes one tomato through the process of elimination. So, pruning works for them because their goals are different from those of us who grow tomatoes to eat. I don't know about you, but I want more than one tomato per plant no matter how big that tomato is.

3. The foliage on your plant is the "factory" that produces your tomatoes. Your plants need to be able to photosynthesize in order to produce the energy the plant needs for leaf, fruit and root growth. If you remove the foliage, you are running your "tomato factory" at lower capacity. Why do that? If the point of growing tomatoes is to grow tomatoes, you don't want to do anything that will impede their growth.

4. Tomatoes are prone to all kinds of diseases that can cause them to lose their foliage. So, if you prune off 50% of your foliage, and then a disease like Early Blight takes off another 25% of that plant's foliage, you aren't going to get many (and perhaps not any) ripe fruit to eat, although the compost pile may get some half-ripened sunscalded ones.

5. Some people argue that they use pruning so they can grow twice as many plants in the same space. Generally they do this in commercial greenhouses too, but the pruning is accompanied by highly specialized techniques to produce many tomatoes per plant---techniques we home gardeners can't emulate unless we set up a very expensive greenhouse system. And, for ordinary people who stake their plants to a single stake, pruning is a way to make that system work--but they pay for it with greatly reduced yields.

I have grown tomatoes all my life, first with my gardening relatives when I was a child and then, later on, as an adult. I generally grow 100-200 plants a year and get hundreds of regular-sized tomatoes and thousands of the bite-sized cherry, currant, grape and pear-shaped ones. I don't prune and never will. Do I know people who prune? I know people who have tried it because they read somewhere that they "should" and, after trying it once, none of them has eve done it again. I know market growers and commercial growers who do it as part of a highly-regimented, highly-specialized commercial greenhouse production. I don't know any home gardeners who try heavy pruning of tomato plants more than once.

My husband grew up in Pennsylvania and they staked and pruned their tomatoes when he was growing up. They had their reasons, and I think a lot of it had to do with their significantly shorter growing season, cooler temperatures annd significantly less intense sunlight. However, he's never once suggested I stake our tomatoes and, if he thought it was a worthwhile technique to use here, I am sure he would have recommended it. LOL

So, that's my arguments against pruning, and you can take it for what it is worth---it's just my opinion of what works versus what doesn't work.

When we lived in Fort Worth, we had a neighbor who wasn't very friendly and didn't speak to any of her neighbors, including us. She decided to grow tomatoes one year and she tried the staking/pruning method. As the summer went on, we had our usual heavy crop of "more tomatoes than we could eat" and she had tall, single stem plants attached to tall stakes. She kept pruning off all the limbs and suckers, and pinching off all the blossoms.

Finally, her poor hen-pecked husband asked me what she was doing wrong. I knew that whatever I said would make her mad, so I just said "Whatever book she's using that's telling her to grow the tomatoes that way was written for a northern or northeastern gardener and those techniques don't work here. You need to get her a book about growing tomatoes in Texas." They never said another word about their tomatoes and took out those plants a couple of weeks after he and I had that conversation. And, under normal conditions, I would have talked to her about her staking and pruning when I saw her doing it, but since she refused to speak back to you if you spoke to her, there didn't seem to be much point. I'd learned long before that conversation was not welcome.

You have to wonder though. When someone prunes off most of the foliage, and pinches off the blossoms, just what part of the plant is left to produce tomatoes?

Dawn

Dawn...
AGREED! Thank you for posting all this wonderful info! Even though I live farther north than you, this is still Oklahoma, and the July and August temperatures are enough to swelter the most determined tomatoe, (pardon the pun).

I am using a fence type trellis, and I am going to have to figure out a way to control the inevitable top growth. I'm not too keen on having to use a ladder for harvest. My fence trellis is only going to end up being about 5 1/2 ft tall, or so. I may try to train these vines horizontally..I don't know. I guess I'll figure that part out when the time comes. I still have the tall kennel poles to utilize.

BTW, I inadvertantly posted the "pruning" part of that link. I thought the rest of it was pretty good general info, but it's always best to talk to local Oklahoma gardeners that have been growing here for a long time.

The general principal in allowing a sufficient numbers of leaves for photosynthesis, and developing the "sugars" in the tomatoes, and to protect the fruits from sunscald is bascially the same as for grapevines, except the grape vines will have to have some of the leaves removed....with caution.

I wish GW had at least one "sticky" thread for tomatoes only, because I keep going back searching endlessly through the various threads for tomatoe info. I'll bet if Okies had to narrow their choice of one vegetable to grow, it would be tomatoes. Thankfully we don't have to make that choice!

Anyways, again, thanks again for the info on NOT PRUNING! It makes perfect sense.

I have read that some people top-cut their tomato plants as you are considering in order to control the size of the plant. Yes, it reduces production overall, but it keeps the plants to a more manageable size. That's not the same thing as pruning.

Dawn, hello again from the Ozarks. This is quite interesting to me.

I learned gardening from my dear old Dad. I started out doing tomatoes his way....pruning every growth that began next to the stem and a leaf. Over the years I gradually began just pruning until the first cluster of fruit begain. Sometimes I don't prune at all. Sunscald was the thing I was avoiding.

I am curious on your method. Are you staking tomatoes? With that many plants???? I tried not staking one year and lost so many to rot, I quit that method quickly.

I grow my 36 or so on cattle panels. They do topple over but so far that hasn't been a problem. I rarely have one break.

I might top a couple this year to see how that works.

You all have a very informative and interesting Forum.

Glenda

Shekannah, Have you visited the Tomato Forum here at GW? It is about tomatoes, tomatoes, tomatoes. There are many wonderful people who post there and, as with any forum on GW, there are many divergent opinions and a few very opinionated people. I read the stuff there every day....but seldom, if ever, post becase I don't care for the personality conflicts and "disharmony" that are fairly common there. There are a few "experts" (some real, some imagined) there who are always looking for a fight or trying to impose their opinions on everyone else, but you find that on some forums. However, there are also some very, very knowledgeable folks there who are the essence of kindness and helpfulness (and they are, by far, in the majority). After you've read the threads there, it will become apparent who truly knows what they're talking about and who's a "pretender" or who wants to shove their opinion down everyone else's throats. One caution, though, and that is that you can read it all for informational purposes, but you have to remember that everyone grows in different climates. What works for people in some climates won't work in other climates and you do have to keep that in mind.

There's also a Tomato Pest and Disease Forum, but you have to be careful whose answers you trust there since there's a lot of people who think they know more than they know. Sometimes the answers there make me cringe, but the knowledgeable folks who post accurate responses there help a lot of folks. You just have to figure out who knows what they're talking about and who doesn't.

As far as the height of tomatoes, I let mine climb as high as they can. Once they get a foot or two above the top of the tomato cage, the limbs begin to hang back down. So, theoretically, if you have a 6' tall cage, the plant climbs to the top of it and then goes up another foot or two and then grows all the way back down. You can end up with limbs back down almost to the ground.

Game bird, Some folks do top off their plants, especially in the fall because they want to put all the plant's energy into fruit production, esp. as the first fall freeze approaches.

I don't top off my plants and have never known anyone who does. Everyone here where I live in southern OK lets their plants go on growing and producing for as long as possible.....to the point that at the end of the season, they start giving away increasingly larger amounts of tomatoes because they have canned/dried/frozen and eaten all they can and are sick of them. To me, that is a successful tomato year....having so many that you get sick of dealing with them. LOL

I never have topped a plant and probably never will, but that's my choice and, of course, anyone can top off a plant if they want to. Our climate is so erratic that I don't try to "grow by the calendar" and that includes topping. For example, say your first fall freeze normally occurs around the first week in November. So, maybe you decide to top your plants the last week in September so all the plants' energy can go towards ripening the fruit that have already set. You continue to harvest throughout October and you may find that you are about through harvesting all the existing fruits about the time that your first freeze is expected. Then, since this is Oklahoma and the weather has a mind of its own and does as it will, maybe the first freeze doesn't come until December. Since you topped your plant in anticipation of an early November freeze, you've pretty much ended your tomato producing season, but a plant that wasn't topped will keep growing and producing until that first frost.

Even if frost threatens and you have plants covered in green tomatoes, you can pull up the whole plant, hang it in a cellar, attic or garage and the fruit will continue to ripen, often for weeks and weeks. I've had fruit ripening on an uprooted vine in the tornado shelter at least a month after the first killing freeze. Of course, you also can harvest the green tomatoes and use them as fried green tomatoes, in tomato pie and for chow chow and other relishes.

Glenda, I grow all my tomatoes, determinates and indeterminates alike in cages made from wire fencing. I have cages in 3' sizes, for very small determinates, and I have cages in 6' sizes for the "average" indeterminate tomato. On a few of the larger and more vigorous plants like Tess's Land Race Currant, Sweet Million, Brandy Boy, Brandywine, SunGold, Black Cherry and Better Boy, I add a 3' cage on top of the 6' cage, using zip ties to attach the two together, as conditions warrant. Some of these, like Tess's Land Race Currant would probably grow easily to 12' to 15' if I would keep adding more sections to the cages, but there's a limit to how high I'll climb on a ladder, especially since parts of the garden have quite a slope to them.

All the cages are staked. Normally I use 3' tall stakes, but the larger, heavier tomato plants like the ones I listed above have 8' tall green metal fence poles as their stakes, and some of the medium-sized plants have 3' or 6' tall fence poles as their stakes. The 3' wooden stakes are the ones sold in bundles of 25 at home center stores and are normally used for marking construction sites, etc. In a dry year when plant growth is more refined, most cages are fine with two stakes, but in a year with a lot of rainfall like this year, the cages get 4 stakes.

My tomato beds are labor intensive up-front. At the time that I plant, I put a handful of Espoma Tomato-Tone in each planting hole. I plant, water in the plant, put in cutworm protection (the type I use varies depending on the plant size), mulch the plants, cage them, stake the cages, and mulch very heavily. Each plant has one stake that has a label so I can keep straight which variety is which. The labels are made from miniblind slats duct-taped to a stake, and I use a non-fading garden marker from Harris Seeds so the labeled stakes last for several years and I can reuse them from year to year. It is, as I said before, very, very labor intensive and that includes the planting of companion herbs and flowers in each bed. However, once the plants are planted, caged, staked, labeled and mulched, the hard part is over and only minimal effort is needed the rest of the growing season. Mostly I just pull the few weeds that spring up in the mulch, water occasionally--but not too much, and harvest, harvest, harvest.

Even the 30 or so tomatoes that I have in containers all have cages, including the determinate ones. Depending on whether it is a 5-gallon container or a 20-gallon or larger one, the cage may be inserted into the soil in the container itself or the cage may sit around the outside of the container and actually rest on the ground.

The only tomatoes that go uncaged for quite some time are the extra-early ones that I plant in containers in February and drag or carry into the garage/barn or house at night. They're easier to drag or carry if they don't have cages. I usually cage them in April around the time of our last freeze, and around the time I am starting to harvest fruit from them.

I've never tried growing tomatoes on cattle panels, but they are becoming increasingly popular. I have a huge number of cages and grow lots of stuff in them, including melons (including small watermelons like Yellow Doll and Black Tail Mountain), cucumbers, the taller, heavier pepper plants that tend to break, and small types of vining winter squash and pumpkins. (You can support surprisingly large melons, squash and pumpkins with knee-high stockings and 'slings' made of lightweight fabric like cheesecloth. Growing vertically as much as possible, in combination with intercropping and serious succession planting, allows me to grow 4 times as many plants as you'd expect in the space I have.

Every year I have a lot of beds that are mostly tomato plants with a few companion plants like annual flowers to attract beneficial insects, annual herbs and a few perennial herbs. This year, just for fun, I decided to reverse one bed and grow it "backwards", using dwarf tomato plants as a border for a different vegetable. It's been fun and has worked out fine so far. The raised bed has a double row of Packman broccoli bordered by three varieties of dwarf tomatoes--Red Robin, Yellow Canary and Orange Pixis. The little tomato plants are cute--all blooming and fruiting despite their tiny size (they're all under a foot tall and loaded with fruit and flowers).
Dawn

Will add my 2 cents. First I agree with all Dawn said. And as I always say remember what works for one area or even garden may not work in yours. So try several methods and use what works best for you.
Here sprawlers will usually out produce caged and trellised plants. Why? First we have low humidity and are usually fairly dry so with a good mulch cover on the ground you lose few if any to rot or other problems from laying on the ground. The sprawlers bear more fruit in an average year. I attribute that to the wind and they are closer to the ground and not as exposed to the wind and sun. Here in SW KS and the OK Panhandle we have few trees. I use what I have. Have planted more and waiting for them to get big enough to be of benefit. I also plant my corn on the south side of my flowering crops to provide protection and some shade. Also planting sunflowers this year and put up windbreaks all of which helps. Like Glenda mentioned above in some areas you lose too many if you let them sprawl. There is no one way fits all method.
I used to prune a few stems at the bottom of a plant on those in cages till I started mulching heavy and don't much anymore. I removed the suckers a few times and compared the results to those I didn't. I did notice a very slight increase in size but fewer tomatoes and pounds. I grow for pounds so will give up a little size. It wasn't enough to really matter.
Here sun protection is very important so removing any foliage should be well thought out.
Last year in a difficult year and one that most of my plants didn't set fruit till late I topped a few to compare if it made a difference in ripening times on set fruit as I had seen it posted by several so called "experts" it didn't and then others along with some extension articles and horticulturists say it helps. My experience was it sped up ripening on the fruit that was set when I did it 5-7 days. If we would of had an early freeze it would of made more of a difference. In a normal year I have so many by the end I don't care. Last year was an exception. So in short it isn't anything I plan on doing every year but will if I feel the need. I just let my caged plants fall over the cages and head back down and the sprawlers just spread and grow into each other. I have never tried it too control growth so can't comment on that. I usually grow 50-80 plants a year. This year will be around 80 again. And with just myself taking care of them my methods maybe different than those who grow a few. Labor and time is a prime consideration for me.
Shekanahh I basically treat my indeterminates and determinates the same. The one exception is I use more of the determinates in the containers. And going back to pruning you never want to prune a determinate. I know a few who have read articles and then did. I'm sure you know that but adding it as a warning to others who may not of grown as many maters as some of us. Jay

Dawn I was typing my message in between doing other things so took a while. Hit send and let. Came back and saw you had posed again while I was gone. Covered some of the same topics and that is good. Gives different points of view. Like we both stated in the end find what works for you and go with it. Don't fall for that "you have to do it this way" or "you can't do that". There is exceptions to the rule. I grow tomatoes some different than those north of me on the NE border. Shorter season there. And only around 200 miles away. So can only imagine what it would be like to grow say 1200 miles away in a different soil than my trusty ole sand. Jay

You all just gave me a new idea (for me) use farm fencing cages for some more vining things. I am running out of space for all the squash and melons I want to try.

Thanks. I will be checking in more often.

You never get too old to learn new ways...sometimes I just keep on doing the same things. You all make me think outside the box and that is good! Thanks.

Jay, I'm glad you addressed how you treat determinates vs. indeterminates because I forgot to address that in either of my two earlier responses, and I meant to address it both times. I treat mine the same way you treat yours.

Generally, the only indeterminates I put in pots go in old cattle feed tubs. I don't know how large the containers are, but they at least 20 gallon containers, I think. I'll put determinates in 5 gallon containers.

The only time I've had luck with sprawling tomatoes was on raised beds filled with a sandy loam/compost mix and those beds were built atop caliche soil that drained very well. On clay soil, both in Texas and here, sprawlers on clay lose too many fruit to rot and have a lot of foliar diseases. How lucky you are to have fast-draining soil!

One of my "old farmer" neighbors (he's almost 90) came over the other day and asked me to sell him some tomato cages. He's grown sprawlers all his life, but has liked what he's seen with my cages and wants to give them a try. Of course, I gave him all the cages he wanted and told him to come back if he needs more. He always gives me old spoiled hay (and wonderful watermelons from his 2 or 3-acre melon patch) so, naturally, I wouldn't let him pay me for the cages. I hope his plants do well in the cages. He has a sandy-clay-ey mix that drains better than our soil, but he doesn't mulch, so sprawlers give mixed results depending on the weather. With almost 18" of rain in the last 31 days, the sprawlers really needed to be caged to get them up off the wet ground.

Glenda, I have become the queen of vertical growing, mostly as a way to get out of continually increasing the size of the garden. I think I enlarged the garden for five years in a row after we moved here, and at one point I had a fenced-in garden inside a larger fenced-in garden although now I just have the fence around the outer perimeter of the entire garden. We have horrid old red river clay and it takes a lot of soil amendment and raised bed building to get the soil fit enough to grow veggies in, so I have found it easier to grow vertically than to keep breaking up more sod and building more and more beds.

Right now the garden looks fairly normal, but 4 to 6 weeks from now, as plants climb taller and taller in the cages, it will start looking like a jungle. By late July or early August, you can almost hear the elephants and monkeys roaming through the overgrown jungle that I think is a garden. LOL

We do a lot of thinking outside the box here. I'm glad you're finding useful information, and I hope you do check in often. I suspect your climate and growing conditions really aren't that different from ours.

Jay is going to become our cold frame expert and teach us how to get an earlier, safer start on raising seedlings and/or hardening them off in a cold frame, right Jay? I just love how we all learn from one another and exchange ideas.

Dawn

After a few attempts I got a link to my pictures of my cold and screen frames attached on another thread. Have another frame I will try to add pictures of later. I will gladly share my opinions and experiences and answer all questions I can about mine. I'm no expert by any means just have a little experience. And still trying to improve them. The main thing I hope you see is you can make one that will work for not that much money. I know I may be fortunate right now as we are having several farm sales and I've been stocking up on things cheap. Like they say one mans junk is another's treasure. Jay

Since this seems to be the tomato thread, I just have to brag about the fact we've been munching on ripe cherry tomatoes for a week or so now. Yum!!! It's certainly not early for ripe cherry tomatoes but, after the spring we all had, it seems appropriate that we all brag about ANY harvest this summer. LOL

Our old timer neighbor, in his 80s, completely gave up on his garden this year, losing it all due to the rains. First time ever. It's so sad to see. Of course, we'll sneak him some of our veggies (without the mooch neighbors seeing) but it won't be the same for him.

Diane

Diane,

Congratulations on the yummy harvest! It is indeed an achievement to harvest tomatoes this early after a wet and wild spring.

Cherries are all we've had too, so far, but two large tomatoes are now showing a hint of blushing. The broccoli harvest, on the other hand, is in full swing.

I feel bad for your neighbor. I am sure he is very disappointed about losing his entire garden. It is so sweet of y'all to share your veggies with him.

I've seen several older, long-time gardeners give up on this gardening year almost before it started and feel quite sad for them. I do think some of them will put in a fall garden since it is kind of late to start over on a spring garden from scratch at this point. We have had 18" of rain in the last 33 days, so I think it remarkable that most of our garden survived.

Dawn

Hi everyone...
I am late checking in today...busy day in the garden, (again). Tis the season!

I've been reading through the posts here, absorbing as much info as I can, and in one sitting, that's a lot to take in. Sooo much good advice, and I must say, it's really helpful.

Dawn, backing up a bit, I had to laugh about that neighbor of yours, she reminded me of that British woman who played the part of the overbearing wife with the hen pecked husband in the comedy show on OETA, "Keeping up Appearances". I'll bet anything when that lady's husband told her what Dawn said about the tomatoes, she went and ripped them out either in embarressment or anger/or both.

Well, I did check out the tomatoe forum, and found a few good tips. One of the problems with that forum, you already gave me a head's up on. For a less experienced gardener, (as self here)one would have to discern what was good advice, and what was not. Still, it was interesting browsing and looking at some of the pics.

One of the ideas you gave me was that I have double windows on the front of my house, which faces west. I have just made a rustic trellis and lashed it together. I think it looks pretty cool. This is replacing the one that just wore out after several years. Anyways, I usually grow Purple Hyacinth vines on that trellis, to block that sun and shade those windows,.... and I have some started this year as well. I thought since the Black Cherry tomatoes grow so "viney" and tall, I might plant one or two right in the middle, bordered on each side by the Hyacinth vines.

I would never have the space to winter store a bunch of tomatoe cages for as many tomatoes as I'm growing this year, so I generally use fence trellis's for good or bad, they seem to work okay for me. And yes, I like the idea of letting the vines "flop" over. It used to bother me when they'd start doing that, but now I'll just let em do their thing and not worry about it.

About cutworm protection. My dad used to put a 16 penny nail just at the edge of each newly planted tomatoe. It must have worked for him. I don't know if other folks do that or not.

Jay, your gardening techniques seem really well adapted to your climate out there. It must get pretty challenging at times. There are times when I wish for "few trees", since as I've said before on this forum, my neighbors humongous tree's have roots that sneak over in my garden area because they know there is water and food over here. If I didn't have good sandy loam I'd be done for. I ran into some of those feeder roots today when I was out there digging holes for the fall tomatoes I'll soon be planting. I put extra homemade compost in each hole to at least make sure they get a good start. No "sprawling" for my tomatoes. For several reasons, space, rot,.......and snakes. Ill be growing Old Time Tennesse and Evan's Sweet muskmelons and Blacktail Mountain watermelons on some cattle panels that I have. I have to grow vertically wherever I can, to save space, and I think it looks neater, and keeps you from having to bend over so much. It might discourage pests, I don't know. I have found that snakes like to hang out, (literally) on any kind of vines tho. Weather or not, your still pretty blessed up and over there. I grew some beautiful tomatoes in Wyoming, but we only had three months time to do it in. There is no such thing as spring and fall gardening in Wyoming. I've known it to have an 8 ft snowfall in May, and early snow in August. Sure feels good to be back in Okie again :) All in all, what we are able to grow without being spoon fed genetically modified stuff on the market, makes all the labor intensive work and challenges well worth the effort we put into our gardens. It really does have to be a labor of love, and one has to love doing it. And we do. Shekanahh

Great thread! Okay, maybe this is over kill. But I only prune when a branch gets in my way, as in blocking a path. My favorite support method is the cage. My favorite varieties all grow LARGE and bushy. As Dawn commented, the size of the fruit seems to hardly be affected. But there is more of it, and it's protected from the sun.

George

PS. Found my Rio Grande tomato seed last night! It's started now. Can't wait to see how this one does for a fall tomato.

George,

I am just like you. I will not remove a branch unless it sticks out so far into a pathway that I can't walk down the path.

I'm glad you found the Rio Grande seed. I'm trying them for fall tomatoes too.

Dawn

When I had to rebuild my cattle panel hoop house frame for pole beans (storm knocked tree down on the corner and shaded the whole area so....), I had left the exact right amount of fencing (cattle type) to build one cage about 36 inches across. So I took two Romas from my 'toss' pile and buried them inside it....watered and mulched. This is my trial run with cages. I also restrained myself from pinching any suckers from all the rest!

Should be an interesting little trial run.

George and Dawn will be watching your results and impression of Rio Grande. I grew it last year. And it was the worst year I've ever experienced so not a good year to judge a variety by. If it does well for both of you may have to try it again.

I don't remove many branches and none after I cage them. In a normal year the sprawlers even on 4 ft spacings each way will be grown together. You have to pick spots to get to the rip ones. And I do miss a few under the foliage at times. Last year never had that problem. I just try to walk around the branches or crawl in if necessary to pick. On the big plants even in cages they grow together. I try to save all my seeds early from the center of the plant before that they all become one.
Shekanahh - Yes it can be trying here at times. But then we have our advantages here also. If only rainfall would get back close to normal. Every year is different. So many ask me what a normal year is. I always reply I've been here since 66 and have gardened most of that time and have never seen two years alike yet so not sure what normal is. My company has several stations in Wyoming. All my friends that left here and went up there always said if summer comes on a weekend they have a picnic being that it only last one day. There is a lot of difference between here and the north part of the state. Even 20 miles north. We have a river 9 miles north of town. Once you top out on the north side the ground it tight and the temps in the winter are lower. I know a heirloom grower 17 miles north of me and their average frost date is 4 days later in the spring and 4 days earlier in the fall. We are blessed here as we have enough days to grow most anything. And like onions I can grow any of them. Jay

Gldno1, definitely don't prune Roma. Indeterminates may not grow back from pruning. Pruning, when done, is generally for indeterminates. I have 8 Romas out and they are looking great, which is typical of my experience with them.

Jay, it does sound like you live and garden in a good place. Now, to top things off... tell me that you're above the ... "Bermuda (grass) line!"

George

George,
No I don't live above that line. And thanks to the good folks at OSU they have developed a more hardy bermuda grass for the cold and traffic for ball fields. The severe drought here last year killed part of mine. The first time I've ever seen that. Sure when rainfall returns to normal that it will spread and fill in the areas that died out. We have our issues here. Like all areas you learn what works in your garden by experience. Likewise I never prune determinates. I have removed a stem a few times at the bottom when I transplant them but don't even do that much. Of course most I grow are indeterminates. Jay

Attwoods has metal tomato cages for $.99!!!! I bought 30 and decided I'm gonna go get 20 more!

Kristy,

You do understand that those cheaper cages purchased in stores generally are not strong enough and sturdy enough for the rampant growth of indeterminate tomatoes in our climate, don't you? Most of us use cages made from Concrete Reinforcing Wire (CRW) or heavy cage woven wire fencing or PVC pipe cages or cattle panels as trellises. Those smaller store-bought cages just aren't sturdy enough or strong enough for indeterminates, particularly when a strong thunderstorm rolls through.

I use these smaller cages for pepper plants and some flowers though, and for a very limited number of dwarf tomatoes that get only 2 or 3' tall. I don't even like using them for 4' tall determinate tomato plants like New Big Dwarf because the cages tend to fall over in a thunderstorm even if well-staked. I have about a dozen of these smaller cages that my mom gave me after my dad's Alzheimer's finally caused him to give up gardening. He always used them for very small tomato plants he had in containers or for taller pepper plants. For his indeterminates he used large cages made from Concrete Reinforcing Wire. They cost a lot up front, but I think he used his original ones for over 25 years.

Some people use two of these store-bought cages put together for one indeterminate tomato plant. They connect the top ring of the two cages to one another with wire or zip-ties, stick the 3 or 4 prongs of one end into the ground, and let the 3 or 4 prongs on the other end stick up into the air.

I've linked a page with photos of some heavier-duty tomato cages that resemble what many of us use.

I know that you are new to gardening and I think you will find as you go along, that the taller, sturdier tomato cages made of various materials perform so much better than the little ones you see in stores. The smaller cages do have lots of uses around the garden, but generally not for indeterminate tomato plants.

Dawn

Here is a link that might be useful: Info On Different Kinds of Tomato Cages