Dawn, That sounds like a great idea. Where did you order the seeds?
TIA
vickie

Hi Vickie!

I purchased the seed for Orange Pixie, Window Box Roma, Yellow Canary and Red Robin from Tomato Growers Supply Company back during the winter. I had previously purchased New Big Dwarf from Victory Seed when I was ordering some Livingston tomato seeds from them. I bet that Tomato Growers Supply also has New Big Dwarf though.

Be careful if you go to Victoryseed.com to order New Big Dwarf......they have so many wonderful tomato varieties that you will find yourself ordering far more varieties than you intended to get. lol I have the same problem when I go to Baker Creek's website.....I want to order one of everything!

Happy Growing!

Dawn

Thanks Dawn, I wont be tempted though i'll drool alot. Have to stick to growing in containers. and
New Big Dwarf sound like just what i want. I have to try growing some through the winter.

Dawn have you ever thought about writing a book about Growing Vegetables for Dummies? You have a talent for giving clear instructions. By the time i finish giving instructions people wonder why they asked the question.LOL

Hi Vickie!

I love New Big Dwarf. It peformed really well for me this spring in spite of torrential rainfall and flooding.

I bet there already is a book out there called Growing Vegetables for Dummies! Thanks for your kind words, but I think there are already plenty of good books about growing veggies.

I hope all is well there in Arkansas. We are finally having slightly cooler weather here in Marietta, but stil no rain.

Dawn

Years ago I planted Tiny Tim, under lights. It worked. The plants were very small and produced a fair number of cherry tomatoes. One could plant one of these in a 3 1/2" pot. My only real complaint was that the fruit tasted like store bought tomatoes!

George
Tahlequah, OK

George,

I had the same experience with Tiny Tim when I planted it, which explains why I never planted THAT variety again! :)
What I'd really like is a variety I could grow indoors in the winter that would stay pretty compact AND give me the great taste of an heirloom. New Big Dwarf is the only one I could think of that might do that.

If you have any suggestions for an heirloom (especially a determinate) that would be manageable in a pot in the wintertime and still give me great tasting tomatoes, I remain open to suggestions. I'd love to grow an heirloom cherry like Dr. Carolyn or even a currant like Coyote or Mexico Midget, but am afraid they'd be hard to manage in a pot. Both of those grow into huge monsters in my garden.

Dawn

'fraid I can't help you with a suggestion. Even the most compact of the tasty tomatoes, that I know, get too big for indoor culture.

Thanks George. If you can't think of any truly tasty compact heirloom tomatoes either, then I don't feel so 'dumb'. I was afraid that there WAS one out there, and that I just couldn't remember it.

I might try some winter tomatoes too. I got the list of tomatoes that Darrell is selling for winter:

Aker's West Virginia
Amana Orange
Aunt Ginny's Purple
Aunt Ruby's German Green
Azoychka
Basinga
Black From Tula PL
Box Car Willie
Bradley
Brandywine OTV
Cherokee Purple
Chris Ukrainian
Crnkovic Yugoslavian
Cuostralee
Dr. Lyle
Dr. Wyche
Druzba
Earl of Edgecombe
Eva Purple Ball
German Red Strawberry
Giraffe
Golden Queen USDA
Kellogg's Breakfast
Large Besser
Large Pink Bulgarian
Lillian's Yellow Heirloom
Little Lucky
Lucky Cross
Lyuda's Mom's Red Ukraine
Manyel
Olena Ukrainian
Orangina
Paul Robeson
Picardy
Polish Ellis
Red Brandywine
Red Zebra
Riesentraube
Silvery Fir Tree
Stupice
Tiffen Mennonite
Tigerella
Ukrainian Heart
Wisconsin 55
Zogola

Since they wouldn't get as much heat and will be in containers, I wonder if they maybe wouldn't get as large as they normally would? I'll have to order plants, I don't have enough time to learn how to grow seedlings right now. Is Ferti-lome good fertilizer? I bought moisture control soil for the containers I have now, and I think it was a bad idea, the plants haven't hardly grown. The soil never really dries out, it stays pretty wet.

Sheri,

I have not liked the Moisture-Control Soil either. You can easily mix up your own potting soil. I have not used Ferti-Lome and have not been happy with Miracle-Grow lately....it smells too much like ammonia (which I think comes from composted chicken manure?) the last year or so.

I just mix up my own. It isn't hard at all. (Please do not groan.....I also like to bake and prepare meals from scratch, but that's just me.) You can buy the ingredients at Lowe's or at any nursery, and you can vary the ratio of materials as you learn what works best for you in your climate which, of course, is not exactly the same as mine.

Here's a basic potting mix 'recipe':

3 cubit feet of pine bark that is neither big chunks not extremely tiny shreds--you want fine pine bark but not so fine that is looks like peat moss

5 gallons of spaghnum peat moss OR good quality compost (I have been pretty happy with the mushroom compost carried by Lowe's when my own homemade compost is in short supply.)If you really want a little more variation, use 2.5 gallons of peat moss and 2.5 gallons of compost.

5 gallons of perlite (sold by the bag in various places like nurseries and big box discount stores and home center stores)

1 cup of agricultural lime

2 cups of a controlled-release fertilizer OR .....don't add any fert. to mix, but then, when you plant the tomato plants, put in a couple of handfuls of Tomato-Tone Plant Food (organic)

1 gallon of well-composted manure of your choice (cow, rabbit, hen, etc.) It is easy to find composted cow manure in most places that sell bagged soils and amendments. Chicken and rabbit manure are a little harder to find--I usually find them at feed stores or organic gardening stores/nurseries.

Mix all these ingredients together. I like to mix them together using a small wading pool, but you can just mix them together in the bed of a pickup or on top of a tarp or sheet of plastic, depending on your circumstances.

This mix is good for a couple of years. I do like to add new organic fertilizer, and a little more manure and compost whenever I remove old plants and add new ones.

If you don't want to mix up your own, lots of people like the Pro-Mix brand. Ferti-lome might be fine--I have no idea. The important thing is that it MUST drain well or your plants won't do well at all.

If you want to, you can try to rehabilitate your Moisture Control soil by adding perlite and maybe a little pine bark and some peat moss (or compost) to it to increase drainage.

So, which of Darrrel's amazing plants are you going to buy?

Of the ones he has available, I have grown the following outdoors either in the ground, in large containers, or both, but only in spring, summer and fall:
Aunt Ginny's Purple
Aunt Ruby's German Green
Azoychka
Black From Tula PL
Box Car Willie
Bradley
Brandywine OTV
Cherokee Purple
Dr. Wyche
Druzba
Eva Purple Ball
Golden Queen USDA
Kellogg's Breakfast
Large Pink Bulgarian
Lillian's Yellow Heirloom
Little Lucky
Lucky Cross
Olena Ukrainian
Paul Robeson
Red Brandywine
Red Zebra
Riesentraube
Stupice
Tiffen Mennonite
Tigerella
Wisconsin 55
Zogola

I have been happy with the taste of all of the above, except Stupice, Red Zebra and Tigerella, although some of them taste better than others.

A couple of things to help you narrow down your choices:

For indoors in winter, determinate will be easier to manage (size-wise) than indeterminate, BUT....

The size of your container and the cooler, cloudier conditions and less intense light also will help limit the size of indeterminates that usually grow into huge monsters in the ground.

If I had to choose only one, I'd choose Riesentraube. It makes a hundred-thousand flowers (I might be exaggerating a little, but not much), many of which set fruit, and it bears heavily all season in normal conditions. I think it might be your best bet for guaranteed tomatoes in winter. It does get really big, and will sprawl all over--so cage it. I do think the container size will limit the plant size though. The red cherry tomatoes taste good too.

If I was going to chose a second one, I would pick a plant that would produce a steady crop of medium-sized tomatoes that mature relatively quickly....like Box Car Willie, Black From Tula, or maybe Eva Purple Ball. I haven't grown Silvery Fir Tree, but it might be a good winter producer. I think it stays fairly compact and it tolerates cooler weather. Little Lucky and Lucky Cross are both WONDERFUL and are two of my favorite new (at least, new to me!) tomatoes but were huge monster plants in my garden this year.

I would stay completely away from any oxhearts in winter because they do not produce very many tomatoes per plant. For almost the same reason, I would stay away from plants that produce extremely large fruit, with the issue being that they tend to take a long time to produce any ripe ones.
I haven't researched all the tomatoes on Darrel's list, but would try to stick with determinates or semi-determinates if he has any, or maybe a compact indeterminate. You are going to have to have a way to carry or drag or roll the plants outside to pick up some sunshine when possible (unless you have a greenhouse or garden room). Dr. Wyche's Yellow has always been a pretty heavy producer for me, and so was Azoychka.

Be sure you know what you are getting yourself into. Darrel's plants, at least the ones with which I am familiar, would undoubtedly be VERY HIGH QUALITY, but I am worried that they would get too big to handle indoors. On the other hand, having never tried winter tomatoes before, maybe I am worrying needlessly. Maybe the containers and the cooler weather will keep all of the plants smaller than I think!

George, if you have any comments, please, please, please share them. I know Darrel has great plants, but am not sure any of them are truly appropriate for winter tomatoes in our climate. (Maybe Sherri and I are nuts for even trying winter tomatoes......but I'm gonna do it anyway!)

Dawn

Dawn,

Ok I am groaning, but will use your recipe anyway, seeing how my container tomato plants are about 1 foot tall, 2 months after planting them :) Do you put any bark or rocks at the bottom of the container? Also, do you think the WalMart cow manure is good enough?

One I have in the container is Riesentraube, but it is so tiny, I think I will buy one from Darrel. I think for the larger size Eva Purple Ball, I wanted to try that one anyway.

Also, I am fighting a large spider mite infestation on both spring and fall tomato plants, they did sneak up fast!! They seem to like the black and purple's the best, almost killed the Black Krim and Black Ethiopian. I ground up some jalepeno's and garlic in water and sprayed it on some of them, and then cayenne POWDER mixed in water on the other half, it has been cloudy for a couple of days. Do you think either one of those will burn the leaves when the sun comes out? I know I'm suppose to use a strong blast of water, but there are so many plants, and so close together it would be hard to do. Wonder if it's too late to get some lady bugs?

I located my diagram that I made when I planted the fall tomatoes, I have a Persimmon and didn't even realize it. Sheri

Oops! I didn't see this activity for a couple of days. Sorry!

Wish I had more input on this subject. But, actually, my suspicion is that it will be next to impossible to do, apart from trying something miniature or else doing some really special lighting. To get a feel for what I'm talking about, try digging up one of your plants and arranging it in the house with adequate lighting. At least in my house, that would be nearly impossible one plant would take up most of my planter, and even then I'm not sure it would thrive.

Sheri, if you e-mail me I can send you a guide I wrote on saving tomato seeds. It also discusses starting your own plants. Really, it's not hard. Not only will it save you a lot of money, but it opens the door to so many more varieties. If I were trying to grow tomatoes indoors I'd definitely start mine from seed. I'd also probably try something like Napoli or even Roma and try pruning some of the growing tips, kind of like doing bonsai with a tomato plant.

In Mexico I've visited hydroponic outfits, growing tomatoes during the winter (yes they have winter in the highlands). They string up indeterminates which then grow up to 12' tall. But their light is natural sunlight coming through the roof of the green house. There, they have plenty of sunlight, even in winter. Light will be your greatest challenge.

Remember, to grow tomato transplants the lights should be only inches from their leaves. The question is how to give this kind of exposure to a larger plant. I almost would envision a bank of fluorescent lights around AND over the plant.

George

Sheri,

Sometimes I put a layer of really large chunky bark a couple of inches deep in the pots, and sometimes I don't. If the plants are in pots that have good drainage holes AND a potting soil that is well-draining, it isn't necessary to put anything in the bottom of the pot, although you can do it if you want to. I'd change that answer, though, if your pots were going to be sitting directly on the ground on top of soil that is infested with root-knot nematodes.

I am surprised that you have spider mites this late in the season. I think that you can successfully spray your tomato plants at this point without being worried the foliage will burn.

The important thing is to trouble-shoot and figure out WHY the spider mite population is out of control. I have found in my own garden that I have a spider mite problem only if one of three conditions exist: (1) the plants are extremely heat- or drought-stressed; (2) the plants have been overfed, esp. if they have received too much nitrogen (I used to overfeed them before I learned better!) or (3) the natural bug population has been wiped out and there are not enough beneficial insects around to take care of the spider mites.

Since the cold fronts have come through and we are seeing cooler weather, the spider mite problem may take care of itself. I don't know that it would be beneficial to release any sort of beneficial insect at this point, since freezing temps are not that far away.

I have always found that a spray of liquid seaweed, compost tea or Garrett Juice is very effective in combatting spider mites.

This year I haven't had any spider mite problems at all and I think the cooler, wetter weather in June and July was one of the main reasons why.

George,

I do, in fact, have a large bank of fluorescent lights that I generally use for seed starting, so my winter tomatoes can grow under these lights when they are in the house. (smile)

In general, though, they will be either on the screened-in porch (we cover the screened windows with plastic in the winter time to help hold in the heat) or sitting on the concrete apron that is on the south side of the garage/barn so they can soak up heat and sunshine.

All the winter tomato plants I am growing will remain QUITE small, especially Red Robin, Yellow Canary and Orange Pixie. I'm a little worried that Window Box Roma will get too big, but hope the size of the container will keep it smaller that it gets in the ground here. New Big Dwarf grew well for me in a container last spring, although it did eventually get about 3' tall after the weather finally warmed up.

I'm pretty sure I can get the winter tomatoes to grow, bloom and set fruit. I do wonder if the flavor will be any good at all, though, since tomatoes flavor up better with heat.

I guess it will be an interesting experiment anyway. I have wanted to try winter tomatoes ever since someone from Florida (maybe it was Farkee?) posted pictures a few winters back on the Tomato Forum that showed his Red Robin tomatoes growing inside in his Florida Room or sunroom. I think he had made his own window box-like containers out of rain gutters. Seeing those little plants covered in little red tomatoes in the dead of winter gave me a severe case of "tomato envy". And, yes, I know that I am not in Florida. (sigh)

Dawn

Dawn,

I haven't fertilized with anything but the liquid seaweed since planting them. I have used seaweed about every 2 weeks, would that cause to much nitrogen? How often can I use it, I noticed in Carolyn's book she suggested once, but I had aphid, grasshopper & gnat problems, now spider mites.

Also, now the last 2 evenings there are tiny pure white gnat-looking bugs swarming around the plants. They were landing on the tops of the leaves, would that be aphids or fungus gnat? I had white aphids and yellow aphids earlier on the canteloupe, but none of them were flying around. Should the seaweed help with them also? Just out of curiosity, why does seaweed repel some insects? I looked on the internet but couldn't find any answers.

George,
I sent you an email, I would definitely like that seed guide, I appreciate any help. I saw that you live in Tahlequah, by chance do you know Dr. Eric Mix? He started working in Talequah about a year ago, and bought some land near Tahlequah. He is a friend of mine, and an excellent Dr. incase you should ever need one.
Thanks for your help, Sheri

Sheri,

I think your little pests are probably whiteflies. See the link below for a photo.

I don't think two applications of liquid seaweed would cause an excess of nitrogen in your plants. If, in fact, they do have excess nitrogen it could have gotten to them through rainwater runoff. So, if either your lawn or a surrounding piece of property, for example, had been treated with a slow-release granular or pelleted lawn fertilizer, it is possible rainwater carried some of it into your garden. Of course, maybe the problem is NOT over-fertilization at all. :) I just know that excess nitrogen makes tomato plants extra-attractive to pests, so I always give it strong consideration.

As far as how liquid seaweed works to repel pests, I know that studies have shown that it does. Understanding HOW it does is more complicated. Sometimes, with organic products you can see a cause and effect that is not easily explained or understood. I think mainly it works because liquid seaweed provides so many trace minerals (over 60 different ones) that are needed by the plants AND it provides them in the porportion they are found in plants, so it is the ideal plant food. Liquid seaweed also contains growth hormones that stimulate both root growth and branching. Seaweed also aids in fungal control. Often you can prevent a lot of foliar diseases by regular applications of liquid seaweed. I don't think I have stated it clearly, so let me say it this way: the application of liquid seaweed gives you stronger plants that are healthier and less-stressed and which are, therefore, less attractive to pests AND diseases. Think of liquid seaweed as a health-food tonic for your plants!

The fact that your plants are under attack from various pests tells me a couple of things--one is that there is a lack of predators in your garden. That's not unusual. Predators move around, going to where the pest bugs are. So, if you haven't had a lot of pest bugs all summer, the predators have gone elsewhere looking for some. Now that pest bugs are showing up, the predators should follow soon.
Also, it may be that the city has sprayed for mosquitoes all summer and killed off the predators/beneficials. When widespread spraying is done, many bugs die. First the bad bugs rebound, and then, more slowly, the beneficials and predators rebound. This is one reason that I oppose widespread mosquito-spraying (and it doesn't kill many mosquitoes either!) Are the pests doing enough damage to your plants that you feel compelled to do something? You can often ignore them and they will go their own way or get eaten by something else or whatever.

In order to have fungus gnats, which are black, you would have to have really, really, really wet soil that doesn't dry out. If your soil is THAT wet, your plants are probably showing signs of excess moisture. In a rainy year like this, it wouldn't surprise me at all for you to have excess moisture in your garden or fungas gnats either. So, if fungus gnats appear, that is a problem that will fix itself as the soil dries out. If EVER there was a year when fungal gnats would be a garden problem, this is it. In general, fungal gnats are more of a problem in containers that aren't draining properly.

If this info 'causes more questions than it answers, let me know. We can discuss tomatoes forever.

I picked and ate some Dr. Carolyn cherries while working in the garden today. Yummy!

Dawn

Here is a link that might be useful: Whitefly Photo

Dawn, got my seeds planted today. I'm excited to see how they'll do. I have a very sunny south window that gets sun most of day. So hope they make even one tomato this year and may can make adjustments if i need to next year.
I use a potting soil from a local nursery that comes from Canada and has done great for me. I learned on another forum to use coke cans (mashed once in the middle) for the bottom of pots and so far has done well and makes the pots very light and easy to move.

Here's to maters in the middle of winter.
vickie

Vickie,

That's terrific! Which tomatoes did you plant?

I hope those of us who are trying winter tomatoes have success.....and ripe tomatoes in the dead of winter! Wouldn't that be a thrill!

Dawn

what catalog's do most of you use to order your plants and seeds from ?

Around here there is just not a very large amount to pick from.
At least half the ones on the list I have never seen and would love to try growing them

Hi Bessie!

Long time no see!

My favorite tomato seed companies include the following:

Baker Creek Heirlooms Seeds (www.rareseeds.com)

Victory Seeds (www.victoryseeds.com)

Tomato Growers Supply Company (www.tomatogrowers.com)

Seed Savers Exchange (www.seedsavers.org)

Southern Exposure Seed Exchange (www.southernexposure.com)

Harris Seeds (www.harrisseeds.com)

Another great source for many heirloom seeds (and poultry!) is Sandhill Preservation Center (www.sandhillpreservation.com). However, as their name states, they are dedicated to preserving heirlooms and are NOT a full-time, year-round retail source. I think they do not process any orders from August through December. They have an amazing selection though.

Two outstanding sources if you wish to order plants instead of raising your own are Laurel's Heirloom Tomatoes (www.heirloomtomatoplants.com) which is in California and Selected Plants (www.selectedplants.com) which is in Alabama, I think.

For what it is worth, some people on the Tomato Forum were a little unhappy about disease issues with the plants they got from Laurel's this year, which is highly unusual and NOT indicative of her plants' performance in past years. The gentleman who runs Selected Plants posts often on the Tomato Forum and offers top quality plants and fantastic shipping to protect those plants.

Dawn

Thanks Dawn will check these out

Been busy in the yard and working on the house trying to finish up some remodel job's before the fall when I will need to be in the gardens getting things ready for winter

Dawn,

The white flies are definetly what I was seeing. It looks like you were right, the spider mites seem to be dissapearing too. So would it be ok to spray with the seaweed once a week? I am starting think that I may skip the winter tomatoes, this winter anyway since it is getting so late. I am wondering when freezing the tomatoes, instead of coring them, can I just slice them?

George,
Thank you for the seed information, it will be very helpful to me in the future. As many different varieties as I want to grow between the tomatoes and peppers, I will definetly need to save the seeds! Thanks Sheri

Hi Sheri,

I see no reason why you can't spray with liquid seaweed at this point. It will promote good growth and hardiness, and might help make the plants more resistant to the bugs.

I know that the first freeze is bearing down on us, and probably sooner rather than later, but keep this fact in mind: if you can cover up your tomato plants with sheets or blankets and protect them from that first hard freeze, they may have another 4 to 6 weeks to live and produce before another freeze arrives.

When freezing the tomatoes, you can slice them without coring them. However, depending on how large the core it, you may have to remove that core when you thaw the tomatoes to use them later. If so, cut out the core and toss it before the tomatoes thaw. Once they thaw, they are mushy and harder to handle.

Dawn

Dawn, i ended up with a Celebrity tomato. It's abt 6" high now with a good thick stem. No blooms yet. I've got seeds
for Giant Big Dwarf and silver Fir for spring.

I've just started some tomatoes inside under a 1000 watt light. I wonder if it'll make or not. If it produces anything viable, even if the lights are not powerful enough to set fruit, I'll atleast have mature plants to begin with in spring.

Motes

Motes,

I hope your plants do well. I harvested my last fruit from the tomato plants in the ground around Thanksgiving.

I had a few winter tomato plants in pots that I carried inside at night if cold weather was indicated, and then carried back outside in the morning. One night last week--either December 2nd or 3rd--I forgot to carry the plants inside. The overnight low was supposed to be about 32 degrees, so the plants might have survived.....but it went down to 21 degrees here in Marietta that night, oddly enough (and the weather guys never said exactly why we got so cold here that night when the surrounding area did not), and the plants froze. So, no fresh tomatoes for us until spring!

However, we had our first ripe tomatoes on April 25th, from plants in pots, and our last ripe ones harvested from plants in the ground a couple of days after Thanksgiving, so I can't complain--that was a solid seven months of home-grown tomatoes in 2007! I will say, though, that the tomatoes that ripened in mid- to late-Autumn, once the nights were consistently in the 40s, were not as tasty as those that ripened under the hot weather conditions of summer. Still, a homegrown tomato beats store-bought tomatoes any time!

Dawn

Dawn,

Oh darn! I just got on here to see how your winter tomatoes were doing. I've thought about you with envy everytime I pass by the grocery store tomatoes. I hate that your tomato plants froze. I probably would have had the same fate, if I had attempted, because they were forecasting us to be much warmer than we were on several occasions in December. Oh well, spring is getting closer!!! Sheri

Hi Sheri,

Well, it was my own fault...I did forget and leave them out there. Maybe I'll be smarter next year! Our weather has been VERY erratic....it was down to 12 degrees one night earlier this week and today it will be around 70.

I do still have 2 pots of lavender that I carry in and out of the garage daily, and one of them is blooming! I also have 2 very large pots of brugmansias that are overwintering in the garage, and they had blooms until recently. The brugs that were overwintering on the screened-in back porch finally froze and are now dormant.

I'm working on my 2008 tomato grow list and will be starting seeds soon. How about you? Making plans for spring? My list of tomatoes that I absolutely, positively MUST grow and CANNOT live without keeps changing daily....on the day of seed planting, I will have to make that final decision on what makes 'the list' this year!

Dawn

Dawn,

Yes, the warm weather we have had this week has got me making some plans too!! I am going to order some plants off of ebay again this year, but I am also going to try to grow some of my own from seeds. Also, I have a friend who has moved out to the country, and I think I am going to see if he would let me throw a few plants in the ground out there as well. The only thing holding me back last year was lack of space. lol. After the dogs lost half of the back yard, I decided it was time to stop!

I was wondering what do you do with the lavendar? I am planning to plant a lot of peppers and also alot of herbs this year. Sheri

Sheri,

You can cut and dry the stems/flowers and use them as a natural type of potpourri. One of my "old lady" gardening friends in Texas (when I met her, I was in my early 30s and she was in her early 70s) used to cut armloads of various herbs, wire them into swags, or wire them to metal wreath frames, add a ribbon or bow, and hang them in her house. Her house always had the aroma of an amazing blend of aromatic herbs. She would bring us swags and wreaths to sell at Cub Scout garage sales/fundraisers and they were very popular. I like to use lavender and other herbs in the same way.

You also can cook with lavender. I intend to try that this year. I love, love, love the scent of lavender but have had a hard time growing it in my slow-draining soil. That is why I am trying it in pots.....and, so far, so good.

I am toying with building a raised bed garden just for some lavender. If I do so, I will fill it with very fast draining gritty dirt/gravel with a few inches of very fast draining soil on top. I might have a chance of keeping the lavender alive that way.

Are you going to order some tomato plants from Darrell Jones this year? I am toying with ordering some of them just to get some of his crosses that are not available from anyone but him.

Remember that peppers need to go out into the soil a few weeks later than tomatoes because being planted into cold soil can prevent peppers from having a good, productive year. For what it is worth, I start my pepper and tomato seeds at the same time, but I set out my tomatoes from 2 to 6 weeks earlier than I set out my peppers.

I'll dig up some lavendar recipes and post them in a day or so....you will be AMAZED at what you can do with lavender (and many other herbs as well). I am also a huge fan of lemon-scented/lemon-flavored herbs like lemon balm, lemon verbena, lemon thyme, etc. I also grow tons and tons of chamomile (think chamomile tea), mints, basils and chives. Oh, and sage and rosemary, and catnip for the cats!

With this week's hot and windy weather, I am in the mood to work in the garden! Might go out tomorrow and dig in the dirt a little.

Dawn

It's 37 degrees in Grove tonight so I am having a hard time thinking about tomato plants. I do have a stack of seed catalogs waiting when the spring "big" hits me tho.

I can think about gardening all day long, as long as I am inside the nice, warm house! Then, I step outside and that cold wind hits me, and I think to myself "What were you thinking?" LOL

We have been fairly warm here, only down to 12 degrees for a couple of nights a while back, and it was 21 degrees Tues. night so everything was frosty Wed. a.m. Here in southern Oklahoma, though, it can get warm pretty quickly and I want to be ready for it.

I've received a tons of gardening catalogs and enjoy looking at them, but I really already have plenty of seeds, so I am trying to ignore the copywriters' dazzling words and focus on growing what I already have.

Dawn

That's a good idea with the swags, I might try that. Dawn, is there anything else that needs extra "fast draining" materials applied. I read that it is a good idea to add some sand for strawberrys, but I was afraid it may attract some nemotodes, so I refrained.

I am going to order from Daryll this year, I'm glad you reminded me about that. I'll probably just order more tomato plants and start the peppers from seed. Do you start all of your herbs and vegetables indoors and transplant later? I read on some of the packets from walmart that some of them could be planted directly in the ground. I there anything else that needs to be set out later, or just the peppers? Sheri

Sheri,

Most plants benefit from well-drained soil, but there are only a few, like lavender, that truly need exceptionally well-drained soil. For strawberries, you can lighten up the soil by adding any kind of compost instead of sand. It is wise to steer clear of sand (if you can) simply because nematodes can be almost impossible to get rid of in sandy soil. I have a neighbor who has pretty much given up on veggie gardening because of severe nematode infestation.

I do start many, many (but not all) of my veggies and herbs inside and then transplant them outside because I am an impatient gardener and, once the weather warms up, I want everything in the ground and growing "NOW!.

You can direct-seed almost any annual herb or flower, and many perennials as well. However, our property is on a slope and direct-seeding isn't easy on a slope. Just one good downpour before the seeds sprout, and my seeds are all floating down our creek and into the Red River.

Many veggies can be direct-seeded, including beans, beets, broccoli, brussels sprouts, cabbage, cantaloupe, cabbage, carrots, collards, cucumbers, kohlrabi, lettuce, mustard, okra, peas, pumpkins, radishes, southern peas, spinach, squash, sweet corn, turnips, and watermelons. Most herbs can be grown from seed as well.

Veggies that perform better when set out as transplants OR roots/tubers include asparagus, eggplant, onions, peppers, potatoes, sweet potatoes, and tomatoes. I also prefer to set out cole crops like broccoli, cabbage, cauliflower and brussels sprouts from transplants because the weather here in southern Oklahoma goes from cold to hot so quickly in the spring.

For most plants that are set out as roots or as transplants, it is a timing problem that makes such action necessary. For example, you absolutely can direct sow tomatoes or peppers from seed. However, by the time the seeds sprout, grow and produce plants that are large enough to flower and set fruit, the air or soil temps are warm enough to inhibit flowering and fruit set.

With onions, in general (and, or course, there are exceptions), the seed has to sprout, grow a little, go through dormancy, then begin growing again and eventually bulb up when the day length reaches the right point. That is why it is easier to grow onions from transplants.

I have grown many herbs from transplants and from direct-seeding, and sometimes they grow themselves from seed self-sown the previous season. Most do equally well either way.
Some of the herbs I have grown successfully both from direct seeding and from transplants include basil, parsley, chamomile, chives, cilantro, catnip, borage, marjoram, summer savory, yarrow, lion's tail, lemon balm, and dill. There are a few herbs I have only grown from transplants, including rosemary, lemongrass, sage, lemon verbena, sage, mints, thyme and lavender.

Different plants have to be set out at the time the temperatures are ideal for them. In general, the earliest crops that can take cold soil temps, and cold air temps (up to a point) include onions, potatoes, asparagus roots, beets, broccoli, cabbage, cauliflower, carrots, collard greens, kohlrabi, lettuce, mustard greens, spinach, snow peas/English peas, radishes, turnips and rutabagas and some cold-hardy herbs like chives and parsley.

Plants that can go into the ground, either as seeds or transplants, on or after the last freeze include beans, corn, and tomatoes.

Plants that prefer to go into the ground after it is fairly warm include southern peas (crowder peas, black-eyed peas, cream peas and field peas), peppers, melons, squash, cucumbers, pumpkins, eggplant, okra, and sweet potatoes. All of these will be slow to grow in cool conditions and have to be protected from frost.

The first plants I transplant are onions, and the last ones I plant are usually peppers, eggplants and sweet potatoes from transplants, and squash/pumpkins, cucumbers, melons, southern peas and okra from seed.

Most seeds sprout differently at different temps. Carrots, for example, will sprout very slowly when planted in 40 degree soil, but they will sprout. At 95 degrees, carrots will often sprout in as little as 24 hours. However, since carrots grow best when temps are between 40 and 85 degrees, we plant them in cold soil so they are growing during the spring to early summer when temps are in that range.

It took me a lot of years of growing to get a good understanding of the role that both soil and air temps play in the sprouting of seed and subsequent plant growth. (We didn't have the internet back then,so you couldn't find the info easily.) Since I have learned to work with the weather, and not against it, I have much more gardening success than before. LOL

Dawn

Hello,

I have been away from this forum for a few years. Could someone please tell me how to order plants from the *Darrel* who is mentioned frequently in this thread? Thank you very much. Is he also known as Fusion?

Hi Geri,

Yes, Darrel Jones does post as "Fusion" and I've linked his website below. Ordering directions are on the website.
I've never ordered from him because I raise my own, but Sheri has ordered from him in the past and this year as well, I think. His reputation is impeccable.

Dawn

Here is a link that might be useful: Selected Plants website