Mycorrhiza is not a type of fungi but the symbiotic relationship many fungi form with plant roots, different plants utilize (or maybe different fungi) this relationship for mutual benefit each getting some nutrients from the other that they might not otherwise get. So which species of fungi do that with grass and is that the species that store has to sell or does the store simply sell some soil that migh have some fungi spores that may or may not be what you want?
The best thing for you to do is build up the soil so it is good and healthy and your grass roots and the right fungi will develop that relationship without you spending more money.

It may be helpful if the lawn has been repeatedly treated with fungicide, brand new house with ruined,compacted soil from heavy machinery, etc. On somewhat decent lawn, it may not do much. You just add more organic matter, apply organic fertilizer and water deeply and infrequently.

I've seen pictures of minor miracles from mycorrhizae in desert sand to prepare golf courses, but I've never seen anything happen in better soil.

Since the term Mycoddhiza refers to a relationship between plant roots and fungi, and does not refer to any fungi, spending your money on Mychorrhizal Fungi is largely a waste. Build up your soil so it is good and healthy and that symbiotic relationship will happen without purchasing something of dubious value.

Inoculation with a variety of mycorrhizae can be of benefit to a soil that does not have a normal supply. I wouldn't hesitate to use these products on a deficient lawn anymore than I wouldn't be slow to inoculate my beans and peas with symbiotic bacteria.

Unfortunately, the construction process itself can be extremely harmful to micro populations, leaving much of our urban soils bereft of anything that one could call 'native'. Use your judgement in deciding if your soil has been damaged or not. Some clayey soil can be problematic for mycorrhizae, too.

The type of mycorrhizae fungi found associated with grasses are the ENDOmycorrhizae. They can't readily be seen with the naked eye unless you've had some experience, so you'll just have to consider what your lawn has been through over the past few years.

Yes, various chemicals CAN harm mycorrhizal populations, herbicides and fungicides in particular. I have a list of those chemicals in question, somewhere. If I don't get back to this thread soon, feel free to email me to remind me.

Mycorrhiza is a term, a word, that describes the symbiotic relationship that some fungi form with plants, a relationship. Most all fungi can form that relationship if soil conditions are favorable, but there are no mycorrhizal fungi.

Here is a link that might be useful: The definition

FWIW, I do like Kimm, Dave, etc., and rely on organic matter to set up beneficial structures in the soil over time.

Ignorance is not bliss

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/18396470/What-All-Growers-Should-Know-About-Mycorrhizal-Fungi

http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/ar/archive/may01/fungi0501.htm

There are literatlly thousands of articles in international journals on the scientific research done on mycorrhizae. THERER ARE MYCORRHIZAL FUNGI and they can benefit your plants even more than the fertilizer you add to feed them. It is nearly impossible for plants to ingest organic based nitrogen sources without the help of mycorrhizae.

Kissr can continue "crying wolf", but he obviously has no knowledge of soil biology or any involvement in the ag/hort/turf fields.

If you would like to purchase mycorrhizal fungi which ARE NOT already present in your garden, there are three US sources (growers): Reforestation Technologies (RTI - www.reforest.com), Mycorrhizal Applications (www.mycorrhizae.com), and Plant Health Care (PHC).

Usually the least expensive and most beneficial addition any gardener can make. Cost of top inoculant (top species and highest spore count) is $14.99 for 2.2 lbs (Mykos - RTI)

i have heard that some mycorrhizal fungi that will end up naturally in a healthy soil, and even in compost. and the mycorrhizal innoculants offer some that may not exist in your lawn.

if your lawn or soil is struggling, i'm sure it would help to add these, along with plenty of organic matter.

Kris, there are hundreds of fungi that form mycorrhizal associations with plants and many of these fungi will only form that association with specific plants. Mycorrhizal fungi can be any one of many species of fungi, that develop that symbiotic relationship but there are no specific fungi that consistently can be called Mycorrhiza Fungi.
Just as there are people that will sell you products to "eliminate moles" there are people (I call them snake oil salesmen) that will take your money from your for any reason and you need to be able to distinguish those that actually sell something worth the money you spend and those that do not. People that sell Mycorrhizal Fungi are in the snake oil salesperson category.

Kimmsr, sometimes you are SO EXASPERATING !!!!!!
PLEASE stop talking about subjects you know VERY LITTLE about.
If you had read the links that Kris posted, there is NO WAY that you could 'sanely' post the words you did in reply to his post.
Why do you continue to show your ignorance and stupidity in this way?
If you don't understand words, at least look at the pictures, for goodness sakes.

First, I resent your 'snake oil salesman' inference.
I'm a professional mycorrhizal distributor.
Also a Master Organic Gardener, Texas Master Gardener, Master Composter and Compost Tea professional
and professional soil microbiologist with my own laboratory and manage thesoilguy website.
That's my profession you are blabbering away about, you ignorant person.

Secondly, there's only a few mycorrhizal types of fungi, and the word does NOT just apply to the symbiotic relationship.
In Encarta (your link) you searched for mycorrhiza - not mycorrhizal - the "L" makes a difference.
Easy to see you're not a researcher.
Your investigation technique sucks.

In the ancient Greek language, mycor = fungus, and rhizal = root. Root fungus.
The Greeks knew about this many centuries ago. Where have you been, Kimmsr?

There are two basic kinds of mycorrhizal fungi:
ECTO are mycorrhizae fungi that populate the OUTSIDE of plant roots (mostly conifers) and form a fungal "net" around the roots.

ENDO are mycorrhizae fungi that populate the actual root hairs of about 90% of the plants in the world. They reside in the space BETWEEN root cells - and do not actually penetrate the root cell. Enzymes make the transfer through the cell walls.

There are some plants that do not utilize the symbiotic mycorrhizae relationship (such as weeds, mustards and kales, and the Brassica family that includes broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage, etc., which utilize an actinobacteria capable of 'eating' mycorrhizae fungi) but the vast majority of plants DO utilize mycorrhizal fungi, which HIGHLY benefit from such symbiotic relationship.

A parasitic relationship. Plants feed mycorrhizae fungi sugars (made by plant leaves through photosynthesis), and the fungi bring in nutrients via their hyphae that extend to areas FAR beyond the reach of plant roots. That's the basic symbiotic relationship.

Endo-type mycorrhizae (technically termed VAM or "Vessicular Arbuscular Mycorrhizae") are almost perfectly-round spores that remain dormant until "awakened" by touching a plant root.

Actually it is the trehalose enzyme on a plant root that "awakens" the spore, that then has about 48 hours to colonize a root hair or perish. It takes about 40% colonization of VAM to optimize the fungi/plant symbiotic relationship. About 30 spores per vegetable plant, and takes a bit of time. Be patient.

If you want to know more, then READ the sites that Kris referred y'all to, and also check out http://www.soilfoodweb.com/sfi_approach1.html.
Good work, Kris.
And yes, west9491 and rhizo_1, you are both essentially correct.

SoilGuy

Here is a link that might be useful: Mycorrhizal Dealer's site

I use an organic fertilizer called Kellog's for my tomatoes which has mycorrhizae in it. It did help fairly quickly to my new garden with heavy clay. I noticed difference in every plant within a week.
From my studies in medical school and ag-school, I think Soil Guy is pretty close to having the correct information on mycorrhizae fungi.
I'm dealing with poor drainage, heavy clay, high alkalinity in a desert, along with iron deficiency so may have more challenges than most.

How 'bout them Cowboys.....

I have done a bunch of reading on this.. Tried to survey the literature....

Here's what I came up with so far...

As Kimmsr mentioned -- there are thousands of different Fungi that act Mycorrhizal to 1 plant or another... Many plants seem to have 1 or 2 "Optimum" pairs, while there are also many other fungi that will still colonize "Just fine", though they aren't "optimum"....

Many synthetic fugicides are very good at killing off "Fungus" .... Good and bad...

Sometimes factors occur that cause the natural populations to die off... Excessive mechanical tillage, Over-fertilization, Chemical treatment, leaving ground bare for long periods of time, etc....

Unfortunately, the literature points towards the "Beneficial" fungi not "Fruiting" particularly often.. No reason to when the "Status Quo" is to have a long term colony that lives in harmony with the plants... so they take much longer to establish or re-establish Naturally...

Unfortunately, the literature also points towards the "Harmful" fungi "Fruiting" quite frequently, and re-establishing populations amazingly quickly...

An analogy is how Poa annua starts putting out seeds the day it germinates, while KBG has to have things just right to seed....

But.. The good part is that the Beneficial fungi seem actually attack and suppress the "Harmful" fungi....

So.. Here's how this could play out in a "Typical" chemically managed lawn.... You have Brown patch or some other fungal attacks -- Wipe it out with powerful Fungicides.... and they just keep coming back... As soon as you have 1 outbreak under control.. BAM.. another one is at it's heels..

AKA -- Exactly what happens when you get rid of the "Pay for Spray" lawn service...

This is where I would consider some sort of carefully picked Myco-innoculant in conjunction with an ongoing program aimed at building the soil...

I really believe this is one reason Sod is so successful -- it already comes with a "Micro-herd" where Seed mostly doesn't.

Thanks

John

Without wading in to the science, I take an approach to this question that I think is pretty hard to argue with. Shotgun it, a/k/a, The Prego pasta sauce "Its in there approach".

In lieu of fairly expensive fungi in relatively small amounts as an "innoculant" I buy good fresh compost from a local operation that gets it from combining feed yard waste and cottonseed burs. Both are rich in nutrients and have a lot of the soil that is anything but steril, mixed in.

Apply the compost at a rate of 1 cubic yard per thousand and you get literally a "ton" more fungi. Water in. Keep moist for awhile and the microherd is busting at the seams in your yard.

And, lastly, I don't think it is essential to do this too often once you get the soil micro organisms there and fed and watered and then follow good organic practices thereafter. OR... maybe I'm just too lazy to do it again after the first back breaker! ;)

This might be a bit off topic but........I have seen a huge benefit in the use of Mycorrhizal Fungi in my lawn and in my fruit, herbs, roses, & vegetables. Just about everything in my yard and garden except my rhododendrons. I've used and have seen incredible yields with Mycorrizal Fungi in both soil and hydroponic gardens. I use granulated, soluble, and even a gel type product for my rooted seedlings and have had nothing but great and productive results. For my lawn, since using these amazing fungi (and beneficial bacteria too) I've been able to use less water in the lawn. I haven't fertilized it in 2 years and it is still the greenest in the neighborhood. I water in compost teas a few times a year(as my fertilizer of choice).

Benefits:
Less water (expensive in CA)
No expensive, salty fertilizers
thicker bushier lawn
no burn or bald spots
better overall health

Negative:
lawn mower blade sharpening expenses have increased

Its a no-brainer folks.....BTW I like Plant Success Products, Fox Farm Happy Frog Fertilizers, & Mycorrhizal Applications products.

The Grass is Always Greener on MY Side.......

Amending your soil with fungal dominant compost and worm castings is by far the quickest way to reintroduce organic matter back into your garden. They contain a myriad of beneficial microbes (bacteria, nematodes, protozoa, flagelletes, ciliates, microarthropods, etc) which will re-introduce the nutrient cycling process.

Mycorrhizae must be added to your compost (or your compost tea before applying) due to the nature of its existence. Mycorrhiza is a root fungus and must have a host plant in order to survive and reproduce. Dormant spores may be stored in a medium such as clay (which will awaken upon contact with roots), but you will not find high levels of infective mycorrhizae in compost without it having been added separately. Compost is made of decomposed plant material (nitrogen) and woody material (carbon). This feeds the microbes (made of both fungi and bacteria) which decompose the materials and transform them into a plant-available form over the course of 6-12 months (usually requiring it be “turned” at least twice). There are varying forms of composting, the most cost-effective and successful way being “static” (thermal and vermi being the other most popular methods; it’s also worth noting that vermi �" worm compost�"is full of auxins, giberlins, and other plant growth promoting substances).

Compost teas (extracts) can have such high-levels of microbes that they are actually immeasurable by today's scientific standards. We have only a small grasp on the amount of life that is literally “teeming” in quality compost. The microbes which do appear in the process of composting (both bacterial and fungal) are saprophytic�"meaning they are the “decomposers” who are responsible for breaking-down the organic matter into a plant available form. Mycorrhizae is not one of these microbes. Mycorrhizae can actually act as a food source to many of these microbes which are present when brewing compost teas and that is one reason why it is important that mycorrhizae is added after a tea is brewed, prior to application. If applied in the beginning, all the mycorrhizae will be eaten over the course of the brew.

One of these simplest ways to ensure a healthy and abundant organic harvest is to amend your soil with mycorrhizae (the easiest and most cost effective way of doing this is by adding 1+ tablespoon of pure, fresh mycorrhizae into each planting hole at time of transplant ensuring direct contact with newly-developing roots or by amending you entire soil bed at a rate of 30+ lbs per yard). Add PGPB (plant growth promoting bacteria) such as azospirillum brasilense (a nitrogen-fixing bacteria which converts atmospheric nitrogen into a plant available form, works on 100% of plants fixing up to 80% of a plant’s required nitrogen from the air we breathe [sustainably as long as soil temperatures remain 60 degrees F or warmer], and also catalyzes the release of natural growth hormones present in all plants, such as IAA) and follow with compost tea feedings on regular basis (bi-monthly +) depending on your crop and soil condition.

Compost teas are easily-produced using a brewer (which can be built with a 5+ gal bucket, a pump, and an airstone). Add compost/castings (and other beneficial ingredients such as kelp, humus, humic acid) and brew for 24 hours if ambient temp is > 70 degrees Fahrenheit or 48 hrs if ambient temperature is Compost tea (extract) does not necessarily have to be brewed. You may easily add raw compost, castings, kelp and humus to your soil prior to transplanting/seeding as long as you add the right soil microbes. The mycorrhizae you add to your planting hole will release compounds to break-down and “unlock” organic nutrients (such as phosphorus which roots have a tough time ingesting on their own) and facilitate in transporting them to your plant roots. The Azospirillum brasilense (there are hundreds of different forms of azospirillum, this particular one being the most influential toward crop production) will use the atmosphere (which is composed of roughly 78% nitrogen) as a sustainable source of N for your plants. The bacteria will convert atmospheric nitrogen (in the form N2) into a plant available form (NH3 - ammonia) which is unique because the conversion does not require protozoa to eat the bacteria like most nitrogen-fixers (the majority of which only work on legumes). It is then able to be taken up by the mycorrhizal hyphae (the vegetative part of the fungus) and ingested by your plant roots. It will continue to fixate N for the life of your plant as long as soil temperatures remain 60+ degrees (the bacteria will go into a dormant state in the winter).

The combination of mycorrhizae, azospirillum brasilense, and compost will provide all the nutrients your plant needs to survive and flourish. If growing in pots, in a sterile store bought medium, the addition of a low NPK organic fertilizer will help jump start the process. That small NPK will be continuously utilized by your plants and cycled through the biology in your soil. Note a fully-grown tomato plant requires less than 6 grams of phosphorus to grow to its peak potential. Chemical fertilizers have changed the scope of contemporary farming/gardening and many gardeners are unaware of just how little NPK you really need when growing with microbes. IF adding a nutrient source, use a dry organic one.

Most people are unaware that ALL organic nutrient sources require either fungi or bacteria to break-them down and make them available to plants. This is the main reason farmers have been led to believe that growing organically gives you a” lower yield and higher quality”. It’s a fact, that if you grow organically WITH the right microbes, you will have a much larger yield than chemical alternatives and a much healthier harvest (higher nutrient-density plus the benefit of secondary metabolites such as lycopene in tomatoes, which are not produced when plants are chemically fed). Every world-record breaking vegetable grown in the last 6 years has utilized organics and mycorrhizae (to verify this, lookup various competitive growers: Steve Connolly, Christy Harp, Chris Stevens, Don Young, Nick Harp, Joe Jutras…everything from pumpkins, squash, tomatoes, watermelon, gourd, sunflower, you name it).

All the microscopic microbes in your soil are comprised of nutrients. Although they’re microscopic, microbes eat and consume just like us. When we eat an apple, the nutrients within that apple become a part of us. The same goes for microbes. They eat each other and then provide plants with nutrients through their excrement and eventual death. Matter is neither created nor destroyed, it just changes forms. It’s a cycle. Plants support microbial life (through various exudates) and the microbes in turn support the plant, continuously providing nutrients in a cyclical manner.

For more information�"Google nutrient cycling and mycorrhizae (other key terms: carbon cycle, nitrogen cycle, phosphorus cycle,etc). Nutrient cycling is the results of hundreds of millions of year’s worth of evolution. It’s as efficient as it gets. A healthy establishment of good soil biology and organic matter will re-establish nutrient-cycling even in the poorest of soils and conditions. Also lookup “soil life in the rhizosphere”.

LOL @magoo1.

OK, time for my 2 cents. I put a lawn in this fall with a premium perennial rye blend we sell. Went in early Sept, and was almost completely filled in by the end of Oct. Used an endo mycorrhizae blend designed for grasses. I think there is no doubt it was the most beautiful lawn around by the end of Oct and until covered with snow. Used no fertilizer. It established fairly rapidly, and with only one watering per day thru mid Oct with a few hot days that got a short mid day watering. This lawn formed a beautiful dark green lawn. It was much prettier than a house around the corner that put in a sodded front yard at about the exact same time which got a yellowish haze by the end of Oct.

Now I live in a high desert area. There is almost no organic matter in our soil, and no mycorrhizae to speak of outside of the forested areas in the mountains.

I will reiterate what others have said in this forum. If you live in the upper midwest on an undisturbed soil, you are already going to have mycorrhizae in your soil. If you live on prior farm land, the tilling and various chemicals probably have killed off much of the mycorrhizae. If you are putting in landscaping on a newly constructed lot, you probably have no mycorrhizae left -- this is the case with almost all new subdivisions. The developers scrape off and sell all the top soil, and then put in sod on top of the subsoil when all is done. Hence, my neighbor's lackluster result with his newly sodded lawn which will need lots of fertilizer to maintain a nice green, and more frequent watering than mine. Mine will develop a deep root system and will be able to suck up water for up to six inches beyond the roots due to the "mycorrhizal roots." In this day and age of expensive water, this can make a huge difference for the home owner! So while looking at the two after his gets fertilized may not yield a huge visible difference, mine will prove to be much healthier, and cheaper to maintain - it will also be much less prone to lawn diseases.

If you live on a nice forested lot, great, but otherwise new landscaping will almost always benefit from mycorrhizae fungi. And in case someone wants to debate -- most types of fungi are not mycorrhizal.

I am also going to introduce it into my garden plots next yr. I am planning on not rototilling my garden. It is going to have a microclover cover crop yr round.

Mycorrhizae fungi can be sprayed on a lawn afterwards, but this method is going to have very limited benefit to trees which need soil injection and different species of mycorrihizae.

Don't know what happened to this last sentence of my post: My lawn seed installation actually deposited the spores into the soil with the seed, and therefore the seedlings benefitted as they grew.

All I know is that mycorrhizae works on many plants, as in most. My bamboo plants love the stuff. I grow california wonder peppers healthy and large, the size of red bell peppers. I have my own blend of species and tricoderma called Myco Blast, but there are many good blends to use. The more diverse the species in the blend,the wider range of plants it will work with. Thanks for the great info friends.

Here is a link that might be useful: supreme growers

I live in NH and I am having a terrible time getting my Barrel Cacti and Sage Brush growing. They seem to do alright July and August then they just die. I think I am going to try some of this Mycorrhizae stuff, bet that will help. There is a message in here but you will have to think about it.
BTW do you know that if you do a Google search and go to more you can search scholar and see what real research is saying.

I'm new to growing plants and I know this forum in on lawn care, but my on-line search for info on Mycorrhizae fungi led me here and I would really love some advice. I'm growing wheat'grass' agro-ponically (indoors) Mold tends to be problematic in wheatgrass. I'm trying different things: cold temperatures, fan, less moisture and soaking the seeds in GSE (grapefruit seed extract). This morning I found white 'fuzz' on the roots of my WG roots and sprayed it with a high concentratin of GSE and filtered water. (I'm using something like 'Light Warrior' as a growth medium, which contains Mycorrhizae fungi, worm castings, oyster shell, granite rock dust.... to name a few. I only need 1-1&1/2 inch(es) of growth medium in a large tray (10X 22) to grow WG. So even though the bag is expensive, it will go a long way while providing a healthy medium.

The white fuzz disappeared after spraying ( I think, it may just be wet, so not visible to the eye - I'll see this evening). The other thing is maybe it wasn't mold. I think I read in someone's post that Mycorrhizae fungi is not visible to the eye? Typical WG mold is blueish and not harmful. This was white.
#1 Will the GSE destroy the Mycorrhizae fungi?

#2 I'm thinking of adding soil to the "light warrior' mixture - 50/50 - should I? Is my medium missing something by not using soil? This seems almost unatural. What would be the benefit? WG only requires about 1 week before harvest.

Grapefruit Seed Extract is supposed to be an anti fungi, a killer of fungus. Using it will probably kill off any Mychorrhizal fungi you might have.

Whew! Really heating up around here. I have been using mycorrhizae for the past two years on two first year start up gardens in the Sulfur Springs Valley in SE Arizona and the results are phenomenal! I would visit soilsecrets.com for the best education I have found on this subject. I humbly suggest visiting my educational website (thedoublevictorygarden.com) also. Mike Melendrez is one of the foremost experts in the world on humus and mycorrhizae. By the way, mother nature has been using mycorrhizae on 95% of the plants on spaceship earth ever since there were plants. The remaining 5% of plants don't form a mycorrhizal relationship, their roots use a different microbiological relationship. Good growing. Popeye
"The game of life will be won or lost in the soil - under the microscope."

Came across this discussion and I am amazed by the passion expressed on both sides. What is known about mycorrhizal fungi is fairly new research. During my undergraduate years (BS-Plant and Soil Science), mycorrhizal fungi were not even mentioned. Even though we know a lot about the mechanics of how mycorrhizal fungi work; we may still have a lot to learn about their application.

Jeff Gillman, PhD in horticulture, tells us (in an article in Fine Gardening) that purchasing Mycorrhizal fungi is a waste of your money. Lee Reich, PhD's in both horticulture and soil science, has told us the same thing, in the same magazine.

The research into Mycorrhizal fungi, and what they do, is not new and was suggested by
Sir Albert Howard over 100 years year's ago, and it was known even then that there were different types that populated different plants.

kimmq is kimmsr