Ahhh...we thought you'd never ask! It's good to see I've raised your curiosity the same way someone did for me a couple of years ago.

The first step in organic lawncare is to stop using synthetic anything. That includes fertilizers, herbicides and pesticides. Everything I use on my lawn comes from other plants and compost.

The next steps are simple: mow on your mowers highest setting, water deeply and infrequently (1"/week as needed or not at all, let Mother Nature do the work) and mulch mow instead of bagging.

All of these simple steps help to eliminate weeds in the lawn. Other than that if you can find a feed store near you that carries Corn Gluten Meal you can apply that every Spring when the Forsythia blooms and again in the Fall to keep new weed seeds from germinating. If you don't mind telling me where in Illinois you are I can probably help you find a feed store that carries what you'll need. Not all of them do and I found that to be the biggest obstacle to overcome when turning organic.

Greenjeans

P.S. I suspect now you'll be asking "so just how is that gonna' work?!!" ; )

"I can tell that it's totally different from the sod I have. My sod is still around 2 to 2.5 inch in height but this 3 aliens that I'm seeing, the height is like 5 to 6 inches."

Pull out the aliens. I walk around my yard a couple times a week checking for weeds and the general condition of the lawn. Many weeds can be pulled by hand in early spring since the weeds are young and the soil is moist. For tough weeds, a tool by the name of "Weed Hound" works great, especially on dandelions. I purchased my Weed Hound at Home Depot.

-Deerslayer

I'll butt in with my questions rather than start a new pre emergent topic. I looked at CGM and it's too expensive packaged as a weed preventative and I can't find it at a feed store.

If i fertilize organically, which I started doing last year, is a pre emergent with Dimension and no fertilizer that harmfull? Or is it the synthetic fertilizers that are more environmentally damaging?

I did just buy a weed hound at HD for $20 and I think it will give the added bonus of aerating somewhat.

Thanks

Greenjeans,

I've been very busy at work so it's just now I was able to get back to this forum. Anyways, for your search on the store for the Corn Gluten Meal, my zipcode is 60142 which is Huntley. Are you saying that when I start doing this, I will never follow the 4 or 5 step process of Scotts or Vigoro or whatever vendor?

And yes, explain how it works. :)

deerslayer, my wife pulled the 3 aliens this afternoon. Hahaha! and now they're placed Area 51 trash bag. Hahaha. jk

Thanks folks!

Sorry, helped my parents move to Rockford this weekend. I've been REALLY busy!!

Huntley! Boy, you're way up there! The closest place I know of is about 60 miles from you near Orland Park. It's Ludwig's feed store (630)257-3097. I'm sure there are places closer so don't be afraid of the Yellow Pages! And if someone tells you "no" make sure you ask them if they know of a place that does carry what you're asking for. There are a lot of Farmers out there that mix their own feed and refuse to buy the "store bought" stuff. Odds are if they have one thing you want they'll have everything you want!

Corn Gluten Meal (aka: CGM) is a product of the wet mill process and is widely used in animal feed. As well as soybean meal (aka: SBM) and alfalfa meal (aka: 'falfa). If you do find a place that has CGM you shouldn't expect to pay more than $20 for a 50lb. bag. As mentioned by Bob-b, if it's packaged as a pre-m weed preventative it will be more expensive because of patent rights. But that doesn't prevent you or I or anyone else from purchasing it as feed and using it how we want to.

The principles behind organic lawncare are mainly what's been stated by the three laws mentioned above and mentioned in the FAQ. By practicing organic lawncare we are no longer concerned about the health of the turf and instead concern ourselves with the health of the soil. A beautiful lawn is a product of healthy soil and a poorly or sickly lawn is a product of poor soil. By addressing the needs of the soil you no longer have to address the needs of the grass and therefore eliminate the need for Scotts, Vigoro, etc.; all products that only address the needs of the turf.

"What does my soil need?"; you ask. Good question! You're soil needs protein, sometimes more, sometimes less. Depends how much your plants are using. You're soil contains microbes that turn the proteins into plant usable forms of all the nutrients it can handle. These microbes form a chain called the Soil Foodweb. It's how nature's been doing it for milleniums and up until after WWII how everything was done. All of the chemicals that we're given to put on our lawns are a product of what happens when the bomb makers no longer have bombs to build. Hundreds if not thousands of factories across the United States with a large surplus of ammonia that they used for making bombs and nothing to do with it. In steps the chemical companies and "Hey, we don't have Germans to bomb anymore; let's bomb the lawns of America!" So they used the ammonia and God knows what else to make "fertilizers".

Okay, now I'm ranting, and while I'm not a professional surrounding how chemical fertilizers came to be I do know they contain salts. In any shape or form salt kills microbes and when you kill microbes you kill your soil. Bottom line. Then what's happening is any nutrition your plant was getting from the soil it's no longer receiving because the soil is dead. So now your plants turn sickly and need more of the "fertilizer" to stay healthy. You've essentially made your plants (in this case your lawn) chemically dependent not unlike that which a heroin addict experiences when you cut off his supply of heroin.

You are in a unique situation; you've just sodded your healthy unscathed soil with a fresh layer of new plant growth. Your soil hasn't yet experienced the years of abuse that many homes lawns have experienced. It can easily and effortlessly be converted to a rich organic and healthy atmosphere for your new turf. Speaking from experience: everyone I know that practices or has started the practice of nurturing their soil has the best lawn on the block. They've become "The Joneses". My Dads lawn, which he sadly had to leave behind when he moved to Rockford this past weekend (he did suggest loading it in the U-Haul), was ALWAYS the last to green up and first to brown out. He watered everyday it didn't rain, he kept it mowed and bagged the grass clippings, he dumped all manner of Scott's Weed and Feed and grub killer and Winterizer on it. He did everything he was told to do and the next step for him was to call Tru-Green to come out and continue the same; hopefully with better results. I went to his house with a crazy idea; "Hey Dad, let's dump these bags of soybean meal on your lawn and see what happens." He agreed, and after convincing him to stop bagging his clippings, stop watering so darned much and to set his new John Deere riding mower up as high as it would go; guess what happened? This year his lawn was the first on his block to green up, and three of his neighbors want to know how he did it. So now I'm coaching my Dad's neighbors on what to do with their lawns. We'll be seeing fewer of the little white "Fertilizer Applied: Keep Off the Grass" flags in my Dad's old neighborhood this year.

If you want to understand more about how all of this works I highly recomend a book by Jeff Lowenfelds; "Teaming With Microbes". It talks mainly about gardening but all of the same principles apply to the lawn. It blows my mind when people (my Grandmother) go to great lengths to build up the soil in their vegetable and flower gardens organically but neglect the majority of the soil on their property; the lawn. Not only neglect but down right abuse it! Look up Jeffs book on Amazon.com, he knows his stuff!!

Sorry this is so long, but you did ask. : )

Greenjeans

Hi greenjeans, what a priceless reply. I'm very soon will become a organic convert. I promise. This weekend, I will drive to Elburn, maybe about 20 miles south of me, to get a 200 lbs of CGM.

Another question. When applying CGM, do we have to make sure that the next day will rain? Am I correct that it's still OK to apply CGM this Saturday?

No problems with Saturday application. It is getting a little late but I suspect you'll get most of the weeds. Don't worry about the rain after application. Rain is on it's way!

What kind of spreader do you have? I'd recommend a broadcast spreader if you don't already have one. Load that sucker up with as much CGM as it will hold and open it all the way. If you get a couple of piles here and there where you stopped to turn or anything don't worry just kick it around a little. Half-hazard is the name of the game! No special theatrics neccessary; just throw it all over.

I bought a spreader similar to the one below. Holds a full 50lb. bag and has a nice big opening. I can dump 200lbs. of soil amendments on my lawn in about 1/2 an hour. Plus it's got a cover for the hopper so I can even do it in the rain (it's happened).

(sigh)...my links won't work!! Never had this problem. It was a link to NortherTool.com. Check out their site and do a search on "broadcast spreaders". I like the Agri-Fab but have never used any other kind so can't swear they're better. I've also seen them at Lowe's hardware stores by the riding mowers and such.

Darn it...I was putting the links in wrong...duh! Here it is:

Here is a link that might be useful: Good Broadcast Spreader...

Right now, the height of my grass is about 2.5 to 3 inches. Do I have to cut the grass before applying the CGM?

Nah, doesn't matter. The CGM works in the soil, not on the blades. ; ) When it rains (and it WILL rain) it'll wash down to where it needs to be.

Cut the grass on your mowers highest setting while only trying to remove no more than 1/3 of the grass blade. Set your mower on your driveway on its highest setting, measure from the pavement to the lowest part of the blade. If this proves difficult turn the mower on its side and with a straight edge across the deck measure from the blade to the straight edge, then measure from the deck to the pavement. Add these and there you'll have your highest cutting point.

Multiply the highest setting by 1.333333 and this will give you the tallest you want your turf to grow before you cut. You can cut more frequently, but I understand time restraints where lawncare is concerned. Another good practice is to keep it mowed before weeds start to flower. Keeping the weeds from flowering will eliminate many weed seeds in the future.

"But if I mow on the highest setting won't I have to mow more frequently?" Good question! No, you won't. Many people mow there grass short, thinking they won't have to mow as often, while in fact they are training there grass to grow faster. The longer it's kept the slower it will grow. Grass wants to grow to produce seed. That's the motivation behind any plant. Grass, being a plant, can't wait to get nice and tall and produce those pretty little feathery flowers (I'm sure you've seen them on a lazy neighbors lawn). When it's consistently mowed low we're telling it that it needs to grow faster if it ever will reach its goal of producing seed. When it's allowed to grow tall (or taller than...as the case may be) we're telling it that producing seed is just within reach before we dash its hopes with our mechanical wonders. So it's left thinking; "I was almost there, I'll get there again." Rather than; "OH MY GOD, I better hurry!!"

...and don't bag it! As the biology in your soil grows stronger the faster the clippings will break down. Those clippings and the remaining blades are where your grass is storing and using nitrogen (again, for seed production). By removing the clippings you are cutting off and removing 1/3 of the nitrogen every time you mow. By allowing it to go back into the soil the microbes break it down into a plant usable form and the roots suck it back up again. The only time I ever bag is when I've not had time to mow and cutting more than 1/3 is neccessary. Then I'll bag them and compost them rather than allowing them to clump and smother the plant beneath. And there are times when my compost pile needs a little shot of green so I'll bag it then, too.

hi greenjeans,

Thanks for all the guidance. I will follow all the things you have mentioned. I contacted Elburn Coop this afternoon and they told me that CGM will be available either tomorrow or Thursday. They'll call me once they receive it.

Anyways, I'm just curious, what is the smell of CGM? Does it smell bad? Also, what is the color?

disregard, I found some pictures :)

CGM at Google Images

Hmmm...I guess it just smells like corn meal. Sorta. I don't really know, none of the grains have any particular odor to them with the exception of alfalfa which has a strong, freshly cleaned hamster cage smell. Other than that soybean meal smells mighty powerful bad if you put too much down at one time. On its own it's not bad, but once SBM sits for a day it'll start to sour. It's only bad if you apply a lot, though. I usually put down 50lbs. on my 5-6k sq.ft. (and shrinking) lawn area every two weeks or so. If I use two bags it gets kinda smelly. For your lawn, if it's a true 9k sq.ft., I wouldn't apply more than two bags at a time of SBM. Otherwise you'll be smelly for about a week.

By the way, from this link, right at the very first sentence, it says "safely inhibit germination of grass and weed seeds".

That means, if I am planning to overseed this coming fall, I should not put corn gluten meal. Am I correct?

Yes, that's correct. Any Spring applications you make will not affect your Fall seeding, but definitely don't apply any CGM or regular corn meal before you seed this Fall.

Also, it suddenly occured to me, you may want to look for some alfalfa meal, too. Alfalfa has an enzyme that promotes root growth. With your new sod it will help it to get firmly rooted into your existing soil. If all they have are pellets, which is sometimes the case, those will work too. I just like the meal better because it seems to get in the soil faster.

You read my mind. :D

I was about to ask what other organic stuff I should put. It's because, I was thinking last night that CGM is just a pre-emergent. Oh, it also 10 nitrogen or however they call it. :)

So when is the best time to apply alfalfa? Should it be before it rains? Should it be spring/falls or anytime? How much of alfalfa meal do I need for my 9500 sqft lawn?

Thanks again! :)

I like to call alfalfa "Natures Starter Fertilizer". While I'm not sure if fresh sod would need any "starter fertilizer" I'm sure it could benefit from anything that would stimulate additional root growth. After all, it is pretty much just laying on top of the soil until it sends roots down.

Unlike synthetic starter fertilizers; alfalfa does contain everything a plant will need, so it can be used anytime. I'd probably wait about a month or more to apply after you've put down the CGM. That CGM's got a lot of protein in it (by the way, protein=nitrogen in the organic world) and with the other application you've made of the synthetic fertilizer I'd hate to see you have to mow that lawn everyday for a month! It's gonna start growing pretty crazy when that CGM gets to work. You'll see!

9.5k sq.ft. apply the same as CGM on the 'falfa. About 20lbs./k or four 50lb. bags in your case. ALL of the feed grains are about the same in that regard, 20lbs./k, with the exception of soybean meal which I like to do at half rates more frequently. To figure how many total pounds you need for 9500 sq.ft. I just call it 9.5x20=190lbs or four 50lb. bags. It's not an exact science like synthetics. A little more or a little less never hurt anything where organics are concerned. That's the fun part! Knowing there's no chance of screwing up and burning your grass.

Thanks buddy! ;)

I will keep you posted.

I just put corngluten on my grass and my local feed store suggested I also put down melorganite 6-2-0 and Healthy grow 2-5-4. This is my first year doing it myself and I am not familiar with the melorganite or Healthy Grow. Is it ok to use?

The Milorganite ( Milwaukee Sewer Sludge) wont hurt anything, but with the CGM (Corn Gluten Meal) you just gave your lawn a major shot of Nitrogen that should be noticable over the next couple of weeks. Plus im sure that after you put down the Milorganite there will be a very unpleasent aroma coming from your lawn for a few days.

Here is an update folks. I'm seeing some improvement in my lawn. Some areas are more darker green now. But I still see some dead blades about 30% and the blades are still short as compared to what I see from my neighbors. It could be that their lawn is very well established and mine isn't since sod was just put September of last year. Also, it hasn't been raining for more than 3 weeks now. Weather.COM have been missing very badly lately for our area.

Since I learned about ACT(aerated compost tea) a few days ago, maybe, my application of Vigoro winterizer last year and Weed&Feed mid March killed the majority of the beneficial organisms. Or my other guess is, it burnt the blades. What am thinking now is that, once I apply ACT, from what I've read, the organisms will eat the dead blades and nurture the lawn.

Am I correct folks?

Was this question answered: "is a pre emergent with Dimension and no fertilizer that harmfull?"?

If so, how is it harmful to soil or soil microbes? Why?