Shop Products
Houzz Logo Print
wanna_be_green_in_il

Lacking Topsoil & Want to Start to Be Green

Hi, my husband and I are completely new to organic lawn care (and basically lawn care in general). Firstly, yes, I read the Organic Lawn Care FAQ. I did a search on previous questions. I tried to read the strings to as many as possible, but after several hours, I couldnt devote more time as I have a baby to chase! I think our situation is ever so slightly different from the other newbie "how do I get started questions" that are out there. Here is why: I am wondering if our lacking topsoil could be contributing to our problem and thereby, we need a lawn care regimen a bit different than the beginning organic regimen (which I am not entirely sure what that should actually be as I got confused with corn gluten meal, soybean meal, coffee grounds, etc.).

Here is our lawn status: Our house was a new construction in 2006. We contacted a national lawncare company, and had them start to treat the lawn in 2008 for rampant weeds that we inherited from the unkempt lot across the street. We were instructed by the "lawncare professional" that the builders had scraped off most of the topsoil. The lawncare company treated our lawn with pesticides and fertilizer, almost to no avail last summer and fall. They identified the following weeds in our yard: thistle, dandelion, oxalis, foxtail, and crabgrass. The lawn was aerated last May. I have no idea what kind of grass we have. We are located in zone 5A. I noticed on some of the questions, that the size of the lawn matters for the particular treatment: 6,000 sq. feet.

I would love a regimen (including timing) that would help me eradicate the weeds and then keep them under control. I know that you have provided regimens for other folks, but I am wondering if we need to take a different tack since we started out with little to no topsoil under our grass. Thanks in advance. I truly appreciate the advice.

Comments (7)

  • organic2009
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It is very common for developers/builders to remove the top soil and sell it before they even pound one nail in any houses they are going to build. However, it is also very common for lawn guys to use this as the perfect excuse for why your lawn looks bad. Look around the neighborhood, do all the lawns look equally bad or is it just your house? It is likely that you have to have a few inches of top soil just maybe not as much as we would like. Depending on your budget you have a few options. If you don't have any budgetary concerns I would contact a reputable landscaper and have her put together a quote to install a new lawn with plenty of topsoil. You should get at least three estimates and have them hold off on the work until August. Spending that much money on an install in spring is a bad idea because you would have many weed and crabgrass issues. Any good landscaper could have you with a picture perfect lawn by September. Not all landscapers are good.

    The second option would be to continue to treat your lawn and attempt to build it slowly. You will need to have patience and a tolerance for some weeds. If there are bare areas or parts of the lawn that are thin I would suggest you make an attempt to seed them now, however, as I said before, seeding in the spring time is never particularly effective. Temperatures and competition from grassy weeds usually leave you with less than perfect results. If it is possible you should rent a core aerator (or hire someone to aerate) and then over seed the entire lawn with a mix that includes mostly improved rye grasses. (I am assuming your lawn is mostly sun and not a lot of shade) Rye grass will germinate faster than any other type of grass. (using bluegrass or tall fescue will result in about a month of waiting for the seed to germinate. Rye grass will come up quick) Make sure you water effectively if mother nature doesn't provide enough. It will be very important that you make a concerted effort to water properly and set your mower at the highest setting it will allow. Mow high all spring and summer to crowd out weeds and crabgrass. NEVER EVER mow your lawn during the heat of the day when temps are over 85 degrees. This is very important....do NOT mow your lawn during the heat of the day.

    Finally, you should get on some type of a program to help feed your lawn and your soil. A chemical program would be the easiest, cheapest and most convenient but probably not the most effective. (The tech you get treating your lawn will probably be a hard working person but not particularly knowledgeable and his/her goal is to sell you more stuff) With topsoil that is less than great you will want to improve it as best you can. Synthetic, chemical fertilizers won't do that although they may help your lawn to grow and be green. An organic program would slowly build your soil and promote some good biological activity below the grass. You should also look into compost tea. Remember; seed now, water effectively, mow HIGH, feed the soil and have patience!!!!! Good luck!!! Oh, by the way...stay away from corn gluten if your seeding.

  • Kimmsr
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "Topsoil" is the top 4 inches of soil, usually that also means if would have some organic matter in it maybe 5 percent. What your soil needs more than anything, most likely is organic matter so spending money to buy something with maybe 5 percent organic matter is a waste of your money. What you want is organic matter, leaf mold, compost, which will improve the soil you already have much better, and faster, than would "topsoil". Once you get sufficient quantites of organic matter into the mineral soil you have you can grow about anything.

  • dchall_san_antonio
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The Organic Lawn Care FAQ sort of assumes you are already doing the basics of lawn care. Here they are...

    1. Water deeply and infrequently. Deeply means at least an hour in every zone, all at once. Infrequently means monthly during the cool months and no more than weekly during the hottest part of summer. If your grass looks dry before the month/week is up, water longer next time. Deep watering grows deep, drought resistant roots. Infrequent watering allows the top layer of soil to dry completely which kills off many shallow rooted weeds.

    1. Mulch mow at the highest setting on your mower. Most grasses are the most dense when mowed tall. Bermuda, centipede, and bent grasses are the most dense when mowed at the lowest setting on your mower. Dense grass shades out weeds and uses less water when tall. Dense grass feeds the deep roots you're developing in 1 above.
    1. Fertilize regularly. I fertilize 4 times per year using organic fertilizer. Which fertilizer you use is much less important than numbers 1 and 2 above.


    If you are watering three times a week or more and mowing at 2 inches or less, you will get a weedy yard like you have described.

    You won't get much sympathy blaming your topsoil around here. Many of the forum members live in pure sand. My "topsoil" is pure white, crushed, limestone rubble. It ranges from minus one inch deep (exposed rock) to 15 inches deep across my property. Below that is solid limestone to limit my root growth. The sooner you get to doing 1 and 2 above, and you get some compost on top of the soil (application rate is 1 pound per 1,000 square feet), the sooner your subsoil will become topsoil.

  • wanna_be_green_in_il
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thank you for your responses. I will try to answer all three of you here. No, it is not in the budget to get a new lawn installed. We will certainly take on board the suggestions of watering deeply and infrequently as well as mulch mowing at the highest setting. Our neighbors almost all have pristine lawns (using nasty chemicals) except for the ones that are adjacent to vacant lots which are full of weeds. Our lawn does not have any bare areas, just grass and a LOAD of weeds. As the soil is rather compact, I gather we should aerate again (this month), add compost, and then start to fertilize when we see the first tree in our area leaf out. Does that sound right?

  • billhill
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Your plan sounds good. You may find compost expensive and hard to find the good stuff. As Kimmsr suggests, Mulch mow all your autumn leaves into your lawn. Collect as many leaves as you can next fall to mulch into your lawn and to begin making your own compost. Before going to the effort and expense of aerating, see if you can press (not pound) a screwdriver 6 inches into your soil. If you can do this, then your soil is probably not compacted to the point where mechanical aeration is required. Aeration, if necessary is best done in the Fall. Bill Hill

  • dchall_san_antonio
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Don't fertilize until you have mowed real grass (not just the weeds) for the second time. Otherwise you are fertilizing only the weeds. When the grass has grown enough to be mowed twice, you can be sure the roots are working. Don't do anything about weeds for two more weeks after you fertilize. At that point the tall, healthy, grass will have choked out some weeds, and the only weeds you have left will be the sturdiest ones. Assuming they are broadleaf weeds, that is the time to spot spray only those weeds with something like Weed-B-Gone.

    If the people living next to the vacant lots followed the watering and mowing plan above, they would not have weeds. Dense turf keeps weeds out. The beauty of watering and mowing is that it doesn't cost you anything. You were going to water and mow anyway.

    Hard soil is not necessarily compacted soil but it might not be the best for your grass. If you are going to aerate anyway, and I sense you might be, I have seen a good argument made on this forum for really going after it. Run it north south (N-S), S-N, E-W, W-E, NW-SE, SE-NW, NE-SW, and SW-NE. You should end up with about a dozen holes per square foot. Then follow up with compost. The normal compost application rate is 1 cubic yard per 1,000 square feet; however, with all the holes, you can probably use twice that much. After you apply the compost, sweep it into the grass with a push broom. Grass can be smothered even with compost if the compost is too heavy. The broom will lift the grass blades out of the compost and allow the compost to fall down between the grass plants. You could use a leaf rake for this, too. Actually you could probably use a leaf blower for this. Finally water and water and water until you can't afford it anymore. Try to fill up the holes (you can't - it's a joke). The point of watering heavily is to try and get a relatively even moisture content all through the soil at once. Since you have holes and compost in the holes, you have a chance at softening the soil but the moisture has to be right. In this case I would water every morning for an hour for three days or so. I have not done this myself, but the theory is that if the moisture is right for a long enough time, the soil fungi will grow. Those are the critters that soften your soil for you, but they need the right moisture levels all throughout the soil. If you try this I'd like to know how it turns out.

  • lou_spicewood_tx
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    {{gwi:79083}}From Before and After Lawn
    {{gwi:79084}}From Before and After Lawn
    {{gwi:79085}}From Before and After Lawn

    That's my lack of topsoil. After 3 years of organic program, it sure improved a lot. I have tens of thousands of earthworms improving the soil for me. the upper 4-6 inches turned black. You just have to be patient with it. It takes time to get there...

Sponsored