Shop Products
Houzz Logo Print
rickbubba_gw

St. Augustine grass help?

rickbubba
15 years ago

Some parts of my St. Aug. grass seems to need a kick to get going I put down some corn meal 15 to 20 lbs. per SF four weeks ago it greened up or most of it but I have checker board pattern dead spots.I beleive it may have some frost damage so I have raked out the dead spots and would like some advice on the best thing to use to jump start it.

I can get some dried horse munure from a friend or maybe some mixed grains SBM,CSM,Alfafa or maybe just some compost tea I did the compost tea with grains last year with very good results but I did not have as big of an effected then.What do you think about milorganite? Thanks for any tips.

Comments (18)

  • dchall_san_antonio
    15 years ago

    Where do you live?
    How much have you watered this year?
    Do you know what variety of St Aug you have?
    How high do you mow?

  • rickbubba
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    I live in n/Fla. Jax.
    I watered once a week heavy unless we have rain.
    Seville in my back yard, Floriatam on both sides and front to the tune of 18,000 SF.
    Always mow to the highest setting on the mower (about four to five inches).

    Thanks all.

  • lou_spicewood_tx
    15 years ago

    Corn meal isn't much of fertilizer. You might want to try soybean meal if it is available at your local animal feed store. Apply at 15lb per 1000 sqft and it should help grass fill in quickly. Floratam is known for its aggressive lateral growth so it shouldn't take long. I don't know about Seville though. Have you noticed that Floratam can go longer between watering compared to Seville? I usually water mine (Palmetto and Sapphire) whenever it is 50% wilted. Palmetto tend to wilt earlier even though it is in the backyard on the east side while Sapphire is in the front with south/west exposed to constant south winds. Usually it's every 2 weeks at the most during the summer. My mom's st augustine lawn (probably 5,6 different varieties mixed in) never gets watered at all although Houston does get pretty decent amount of rainfall to keep them satisfied.

  • dchall_san_antonio
    15 years ago

    You are doing the cultural things correctly. I'm going to guess that you had insects or fungus attack. The corn meal was what I would have applied. Insect damage from last season is too late now to do anything about.

  • rickbubba
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    The same thing happened last year thats when I read the post about using the corn meal to treat fungus it seem to get control of it then.
    Skootcat posted a question earlier this year on a possible fungus outbreak in his yard does anyone know how he came out he seems to be futher south from me so we lag behind from a seasonal point of view.What will sod webworms make your grass look like after an attack?

    Thanks.

  • lou_spicewood_tx
    15 years ago

    Skootcat may have had a problem with pest nematodes and was told to try granulated sugar to combat that problem. It has been a couple months though. I would be interested to see how that turned out.

    You can try beneficial nematodes for sod webworm if you have many of them. It will also kill fire ants and 200 other pests.

  • rickbubba
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    Thanks for reminding me of those events lou I remember reading about the test he was conducting .I do wonder what happened he was very proud of his yard its always a great feeling when you have lush green SA.
    I to have noticed that the Seville is alot more prone to drought then Floratam its seems to be sensitive cold s well.
    I going out Sat. to buy some SBM & CSM @ the local feed store I will also mix it with some Alfafa pellets I'm in hpoes this will do the trick.I'm think I may very well look into the benefical nematodes as a method of pest prevention.
    Have anyone ever tried just plain dried horse munure on your lawn?

  • lou_spicewood_tx
    15 years ago

    Yeah, Floratam isn't known for its cold tolerance. That's why it's only for zone 9. I have Palmetto which seems to be pretty cold hardy. I have Sapphire which isn't as cold hardy so it's a bit slow to green up but catches up right away when it's warm enough so it doesn't really matter when it's only a couple weeks apart. Sapphire is AGGRESSIVE. I may have Floratam got mixed in with Palmetto by accident when I ordered for some pallets of Palmetto. After a month, I noticed two different looking st augustine grass so I called the grass place and had someone come over and look at them. They said it's raleigh but I am not convinced because my neighbor has Raleigh and it looks different. Mine has thick reddish stolons. Grows fast. Wider blades. It sure sounded like Floratam to me but they told me they do not grow Floratam where Palmetto is! The mystery continues...

    As long as horse manure is fully composted, it's fine to use at the rate of 1 yard per 1000 sqft (only 1/4th of an inch thick).

  • dchall_san_antonio
    15 years ago

    What will sod webworms make your grass look like after an attack?

    Webworms are caterpillars that can be treated with bacillus thurengiensis (BT for short). A natural predator for all caterpillars, including tomato hornworm, is the paper wasp. These are the wasps that like to make a nest that looks like an umbrella hanging right outside in the eaves on your porch. If you can leave them alone (don't swat at them whatever you do), they make excellent neighbors for your organic program. These wasps usually tend to their own business and leave people alone. The can be curious but they are not aggressive unless you really (REALLY) disturb them. We lost all our wasp nests when we remodeled two years ago, but they are finally returning this year.

  • rickbubba
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    I rode in my subdivison today and it seems whatever has effected my grass has taken its toll on many other yards as well. One yard in particular has the same patch of dead grass as it did last year the area is only three foot or so. I noticed last year that spot filled in as the growing season progressed as mine did also. There has to be some qlue here? Its so strange this happens coming out of the winter dormant season. It seems to be the same spots of the yard with some added other spots effected.
    Hey as far as BT's are concerned what if both neighbors on either side of you are having there yard sprayed for pests will it kill, your friendly BT's?

  • dchall_san_antonio
    15 years ago

    Every time I read your original post I get hung up on the checkerboard part. Did you apply corn meal to the entire lawn or just to the spots? Even if you only have spots, it needs to go on the entire lawn or else you will have dark green spots where you applied it. You can apply any organic fertilizer now or any time and that should help with the checkerboarding.

    BT is a bacterium. Your neighbors would have to be spraying antiseptics like alcohol or bleach.

  • rickbubba
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    Yes David I applied corn meal completely on all of the yard thinking if this was a fungus I'd get a jump on it.This was a repeat of last years spring but this year its worse.I poured two gallons of water with two tablespoons of water on a two by two foot area today what came to the surface were little worms about the size os sewing string about one inch long.I guess the number was count was maybe ten to twelve.I read that if its sod webworms they are stationary so I guess they will not rasise to the surface to get away. I'm now looking into TADD I think thats what its called I see its treated with Peat moss wih good results.
    Maybe someone could varify the checker board dead grass pattern for this..I'm looking at some photos the roots and the blades look close to the same as my dead grass spots altought I do have some parts generating new growth(new born blades)??

  • dchall_san_antonio
    15 years ago

    If the cornmeal did not resolve it completely, the next organic step I would take would be beneficial nematodes. The best time to apply them is when the soil is completely saturated, like during a week long storm.

    Here is a link that might be useful: This is where I get beneficial nematodes

  • skoot_cat
    15 years ago

    I highly doubt its SADD if others in the area have the same looking disease. My guess would be brown patch.

    The area of brown patch that I had in the winter is greening up, but not fully recovered. The area has hardly any upward growth, it appears to be stunted, which is a usual characteristic after the BP occurrence. In order for these areas to fully recover and start upward growth, is to put some quality compost on the effected areas and keep it moist for a week or so. (bagged compost will also work). From past experience, compost is the only solution I have found for the grass to fully recover from Brown Patch disease.

    The experiment I conducted was to determine if I had Root Knot Nematode. I placed Corn meal on the area at the recommended rate and sugar on half of the effected area. Initially, the sugar half recovered faster, but currently the half with Corn meal only is doing better. It takes time to recover, try not to expect instant results.

    About sod webworms:
    The larvae are greenish with many black spots. Adults are dingy brown moths with a wingspread of about 3/4 inch. You will see alot of moths fly away (somewhat eradically) when you walk or mow over the area. The adults (moths) are laying eggs, and the larvae feed on the grass blades and cause noticeable injury within 2 weeks (early webworm damage resembles drought stress, even when there is sufficient moisture). They complete their life cycle in 5 to 6 weeks and have several generations each year. The soap flush technique is a good way to detect sod webworms.

    dchall is 100% correct. Last year he told me the same thing he told you about the paper wasp. In the past I would kill them because my wife was worried about them stinging the kids. In turn, I would get sod webworm damage every year. Last year I stopped killing them and I must say they proved to be a huge help to me. I only had a few very very small areas that were damaged by the webworms. I would always see the paper wasps hovering just above the grass blades hunting for there next meal.

    I also used the BT a few times last year. Timing is very crucial for the product to work. Apply BT 1 week after you first notice the adult webworm moths fly around, then reapply every 3-4 days if in full sun and every 5-7 days in shady areas until the moths are gone. If it rains or you run your irrigation you must reapply.

    Hope this helps

    Can you post a few pictures? It would help out a lot.

  • rickbubba
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    I hope I'm not to late posting my update of lately I have been looking desperately for answers before the weeds move in to take me to" battle control mode".I mentioned earlier that I put down corn meal about four weeks ago the corn meal I purchased was last seasons CM the store owner gave it to for last years price.Could the corn meal go bad over the winter?Whats the shelf life?
    Skoot cat I have one area that is begining to sprout new grass blades as mentioned but two other areas in different parts of the yard appear to have no new growth almost a natural sprigged look.
    I have a compost tumbler that I just purchased recently started my pile about four weeks ago its looking pretty good now its all black stuff inside their It will be ready very soon. Should I take a chance with my first expermental compost pile by adding it to my sick grass? I have tried to follow basic rules off composting 101 from the Garden Web site. Ingredients include oak leaves, lots of coffee grounds with filters, many fruits and vegetable parts,dried horse munure etc.
    How should I apply the compost, maybe around in the dead spots?
    If I need more compost what do you recommend?
    I used my shovel today in hopes of finding any bug acctivity while looking for white grubs below the surface nothing noted.I've already done a dishsoap test
    read above for in earlier post for results.
    The reason I question the CM shelf life is my grass is not as green as my neighbors lawns that all use synthetic fertilizers.I repeated last years applications the exact same way and had greener grass last year than my neighbors this year I had lousy results "What's Up With That"?
    Scoot Cat thanks for getting back with us on your test results And I'll try to include some photos later.

  • dchall_san_antonio
    15 years ago

    When organic materials go bad, they become full of bugs. If you did not notice anything, first of all I'm surprised, but secondly, it is still good. In fact it is still good even if it is full of bugs. It is rather icky to apply, but it is full of critter protein instead of grain protein.

    Is it possible you applied more CM last year than this year?

    The best compost discussions are over on the Soils and Compost forum.

  • ceelow
    14 years ago

    HI! I JUST WANTED TO KNOW IF LAYING DOWN GRNANULAR POTASH HELP FULL IN MAINTAINING ST.AUGUSTINE GRASS THANKS..

  • dchall_san_antonio
    14 years ago

    HI! I JUST WANTED TO KNOW IF LAYING DOWN GRNANULAR POTASH HELP FULL IN MAINTAINING ST.AUGUSTINE GRASS THANKS..
    Only if your soil is low in potassium. Granular potash is probably potassium sulfate - a chemical.

Sponsored
Ed Ball Landscape Architecture
Average rating: 4.8 out of 5 stars30 Reviews
Exquisite Landscape Architecture & Design - “Best of Houzz" Winner