I buy my grains at the Elburn Coop's Blackberry Station.

Blackberry Station

They have CGM and soybean meal. They also carry urea 46-0-0.

Take 47 south to Elburn.

-Deerslayer

Price is ok Deerslayer. $14.99 per 50 lbs. Is this 50 lbs enough for my 9500 sqft lawn?

If I apply CGM, will it jeopardize or put my lawn into shock since 2 weeks ago, I have already put in Vigoro 28-3-3? I should have asked earlier here.

You'll need about 4 bags to do 9500 sq.ft. at 20lbs/k. Before you go into sticker shock remember you only have to apply it twice a year, and if all goes well you may not need it at all. There's no sense in preventing weeds that can't grow, right?

The only kind of "shock" you may get is your grass growing like crazy! None of the organic amendments can cause any harm to any part of your lawn or landscape. It's impossible to apply too much unless you put down enough to smother the grass beneath it. That would take quite a bit! Notice I called them "amendments" and not "fertilizer". That's because we're amending the soil and not fertilizing the grass. Did you get through my last post yet? LOL

deerslayer, do you know of other store that I can buy CGM? Elburn Coop doesn't have right now and they're also not sure if they will have tomorrow. I don't want to hope for that tomorrow. Do you know of other stores that you go too?

Regoles in St. Charles (my town) also sells CGM. They sell it as an organic crabgrass preventer at twice the price. Below is a link. Select "Garden & Pond" from the menu on the left side.

Regoles

Soil temperatures are forecast to remain low for another week. I see snow flurries in my backyard as I type. You'll be OK if you apply CGM by April 15. You may want to wait for a better price for CGM.

-Deerslayer

I got a call from Elburn Coop and they have the CGM now. :) greenjeans also told me that I can also apply alfalfa meal but I'm still waiting for his answer on the other thread I started previously.

CGM is normally used as an organic pre-em (preemergent weed killer). It also has high N and is a good organic fertilizer. Alfalfa meal is usually used as a starter fertilizer. Your initial post stated that you are looking for CGM. Let's backup. What are you trying to accomplish?

-Deerslayer

I replied to your other post, V1.

Hey deerslayer! How about that snow, huh? It's blowing my mind with all the warm weather we've had. My daf's and hyacinth's already bloomin' and it's bloody snowin' on 'em!!

I suggested applying alfalfa meal about a month or more after the CGM because he's got fresh sod (or fresh from last Fall anyhow). I'm assuming (because I'm not an expert on sod care) that it would help to have the root stimulating effect of the alfalfa to help his sod get good and rooted. That coupled with deep watering should send down nice, deep roots for his KBG/CRF/PR.

But he's not seeding, which I'm guessing is why you asked. He just wants to control the "aliens".

Thanks, GreenJeans...I understand now.

-Deerslayer

BAM, I arrived Blackberry Station 5:55pm today(5 minutes away from closing). I almost didn't make it since I came from Vernon Hills(my work).

Anyways, I got the 4 x 50 lbs CGM. Hopefully, our weather will change coz right now, it's 28F. I read somewhere that it's not good to apply CGM at this temperature. Ideal is between 50F-58F. Is it true? However, if I wait, looks like it's not going to go up to that temp soon.

You can apply CGM now and until about April 15 based on the current weather forecast.

When people refer to temperature here they normally mean soil temperature not air temperature. Here's an Illinois soil temperature map.

Soil Temp

I average the minimum and maximum temperatures 4" under sod. CGM should be applied between 52 and 58F.

-Deerslayer

That's an awesome link. I will apply it then tomorrow.

Oh, I have a 40 sqft area damaged by voles. I'm seeing some grass spots coming out now but about 80% are just dirt now. Should I also apply CGM to it?

"That's an awesome link."

Yep, I like the maps too. The soil temperature maps are published for Illinois farmers. It's one of the advantages of living in a major agricultural state.

"I'm seeing some grass spots coming out now but about 80% are just dirt now. Should I also apply CGM to it?"

If you have seeded or plan to seed the bare spots before fall, don't put CGM on them now. Otherwise, I would apply the CGM and try to keep crabgrass and other rough grasses out of the damaged areas. KBG will fill in bare spots 8" in diameter or less.

-Deerslayer

That is a good link! Much better than the nationwide one I was using. Thanks Deerslayer!

Creeping Bentgrass fills in bare spots 8 feet and larger! ; ) But, OMG, it's a lot of work to keep up with. It's a love/hate relationship I have with my lawn...

so creeping bentgrass is invasive then?

By the way, I applied 200 lbs this morning of CGM to my lawn. It's not going to rain according to Weather.COM until Tuesday next week. CGM will still work right?

Yeah, it'll work. Don't worry about watering it in because seeds can't germinate without water anyway. Besides, watering a lawn in Illinois this time of year would just be silly!

Yes! Bentgrass is VERY invasive. Constant struggle keeping it out of my flowerbeds. It even grows in between the pavers on my patio. Then in the heat of Summer a large patch of it just up and dies right in the middle of my front yard last year. My wife teases me that I planted a grass that only grows where it's not supposed to, and other people tease me that I've planted my lawn with weeds. But I don't care. When it's healthy it's the softest and prettiest turf out there, IMHO. : ) Now if I could just get all the gravel from my fence install last January out of my lawn I could mow it. It's already about 3" tall and I like to keep it around 1/2". Understand that Bentgrass and Bermuda grass are the only two species (that I know of) that will grow denser the shorter its mowed. Other turfs will grow denser the longer they are kept.

Do you know what type of seeds are used in golf courses? It's because they're beautiful and it looks very thick/dense. But looks like golf lawn are high in maintenance.

Fairways in NE IL are primarily KBG blends...similar to your sod. Proper mowing, watering, aerating, and fertilizing are the main reasons fairways look so good in our area.

-Deerslayer

: ) Yeah, but the greens are all bentgrass. : ) And I think it's the 7th hole at Woodruff in New Lenox, IL that the fairway, aprons and greens are all Pencross Creeping Bent. Same as me! : )

by the way greenjeans/deerslayer, I took a picture of my lawn prior to CGM application. This way, we'll be able to compare it after 3 weeks or 1 month.

{{gwi:338280}}

Hmmm, I'm like the guinea pig huh :) hehehe

and here is a screenshot of CGM I bought at BlackBerry Station

{{gwi:1102115}}

Wait guys, I wrote date incorrectly on the lawn picture above. That should be April 5 instead. My brain think it's still 4 today. LOL

sheez, what's going to happen with the CGM I applied last week, it's now covered with snow?

The snow will melt and all the CGM will go to where it needs to be; in the soil.

No worries.

hey greenjeans,

Here is the result of CGM after 23 days.

prior to application on April 5, 2007
{{gwi:338280}}

23 days after application, April 28, 2007 10:30 AM
{{gwi:1102117}}

And also, the corn meal I bought from you were very easy to spread. I applied it this morning since I have powdery mildew disease. And here is the CM I bought from you. I want to eat it. hehehe :D

{{gwi:1102119}}

By the way folks, what does my lawn need since I see majority of the blades are still short? I still see a lot of yellow blades close to the ground at the backyard?

That's powerful CGM. It darkened your siding and shutters, too! 8^)

Kidding aside, your lawn is coming along nicely.

-Deerslayer

Grass blades green at about the middle point and not all the way to the ground. If you see a difference in certain areas, just keep an eye on them to make sure nothing else develops, such as another lawn disease.

You're looking really great, Ron. Good job! You can see corn gluten meal is a better fertilizer than corn meal, not that the lawn wouldn't have greened up nicely with corn meal.

Looking at the spreaderful reminds me to tell you never share your spreader or any other utensil or equipment with chemicals. If you ever find reason to use a chemical substance, use something else. I liked applying worm castings tea with a backpack sprayer, but I never used that sprayer for any other purpose and only put seeds, corn meal, or Milorganite in my spreader.

Yep, that spreaderful makes me want to make muffins or something hahahaha.

Grass blades green at about the middle point and not all the way to the ground. If you see a difference in certain areas, just keep an eye on them to make sure nothing else develops, such as another lawn disease.

There are 2 really dried circle spots about 5 inches away from each other. The diameter of the circle is somewhere 4 inches to inches. Could this be caused by grub? I actually pulled it very easily and the roots where dead too. The grass surrounding these 2 spots are healthy.

Regarding the dry circles, they may be the sites of buried objects. Probe the areas with a small diameter rod or long screw driver. If you hit something, peel back the sod (if its worth saving), dig up the object(s) then backfill. Buried stuff in the lawn is very common with new construction.

Disease or a few drops of gasoline spilled there are also possibilities.

-Deerslayer

Yeah that corn meal is some tasty stuff, isn't it? It is food grade; they offered me certification per FDA standards but somehow I don't think the microbes can read. That's the medium-coarse ground stuff, too. Not like the packages you find at supermarkets. It does spread incredibly well, huh?

HI BESTLAWN! Where you been? I had mentioned in another post that I'd been thinking 'bout you. Good to hear from you!

Ronneil the brown spots could be a variety of things. Take Deerslayers suggestion and also keep an eye on those spots. If they keep getting bigger it may be a fungal infection and the corn meal will work. It's hard to say on the grubs unless you actually saw them. Most of your new sod may pull up relatively easily so that can't be an indicator in your situation. There's also the possibility a dog peed there, too. Dog pee will do that as evidenced in my own backyard thanks to one always very happy to see me Siberian Husky named Kodi. At least she tends to go in the same area for me and not all over.

Greenjeans

It's hard to say on the grubs unless you actually saw them. Most of your new sod may pull up relatively easily so that can't be an indicator in your situation. There's also the possibility a dog peed there, too.
I tried deerslayer's suggestion yesterday. I pierced the two 4"-5" diameter spot about 20 times with a 10" screw driver. I didn't feel any object. It proved too that soil wasn't compact. So, the only culprit now is the dog pee. I see some of my neighbor walk with their dog with them. However, the affected area is something people will not pass since it's at the north side of my house and beside the open dirt. However, if the dog went there, it could it be then.

Anyways, I will look at the spot again tomorrow to see if it's getting bigger. I will let you know guys.

Greenjeans, about grubs, how can we tell if the area that was affected was caused by grubs? I remember in my old house, I was able to see one when I lifted a stone. Color offwhite, fat soft body, and about .75 to 1" long.

Keep in my mind not all neighbors are courteous enough to walk their dogs. I suppose there's also the possibility you have coyotes in your area though I'm not sure if their urine has the same impact on the turf.

You are correct in you description of a grub. I'm not certain grubs are heavy feeding in our area right now though. I may be wrong but I think they're in a stage of their lifecycle where they're becoming adults and they may be hibernating. I found quite a few in my gardens while I was planting this past weekend and they were all pretty deep in the soil. At least 6-8" down. Too deep to cause any significant root damage unless they heard me coming and were trying to escape, but they don't look like they move very fast.

The only way to be certain at this point would be by visual inspection. Correct me if I'm wrong but you didn't have any grass there last Summer, right? So I don't see how grubs could have overwintered there. Unless they were in the sod, but surely the sod farmers treat for the little buggers. Take a peek under the sod in the affected area and also into the soil a few inches down to see if you find any of what you described above. If there's enough of them to cause any significant damage you won't be able to miss them.

Greenjeans

Got it. Assuming it's a dog pee, is the grass going to come back? The reason I'm assuming dog pee now is because I remember when I was spreading the corn meal, I saw a poop in my lawn near the street side. It was a small one like from a poodle.

Thanks greenjeans!

I got a dog over the winter and have a couple spots where her pee killed the grass. The grass is dead as a doornail and the dried up dead grass is decomposing.

I think my options are either to seed the spots, take some plugs from a less conspicuous part of the yard or to wait and see if the rhizoming TTTF I planted will close the gaps on its own.

The good news is that the lawn only seemed to be burned when the grass was totally dormant. Now the places where she does her business grow the fastest and thickest.

Yeah I've got the same, but it didn't seem to matter whether the grass was dormant. Of course I did mow it awful short all at once and I haven't seen a lot of new spots show up. I wonder if the urine had a negative impact because the grass was stressed?

Greenjeans

Ron if those are the areas you're referring to, they are neither pee nor grub damage.

Nope, that's not the one. The one on the picture above is really mild as to what I was describing earlier. It's a real dead, quite dried circle spot.

I'm never going back to synthetic fertilizers. In just a month, my grass is more greener, darker than the grass on my right. By the way, I have a question where the arrows are in the picture below. What are they? Crabgrass? Tall fescue? or what?

{{gwi:1102125}}

This is how they look like
{{gwi:1102127}}

It isn't crabgrass. It might be young Foxtail. In any case, it's a rough grass that you don't want. It doesn't appear that you have much of it. I'd pull it.

-Deerslayer

At the back of my yard, I've got 3% of it. :( I've pulled about 15 of it last week. This morning, I saw about 15 of them again. And from what I've noticed, they grow in the gaps. Are they invasive?

Looks like quackgrass that hasn't flowered yet. Flowers can be seen in photo on bottom right. They will begin flowering this month and next month though. Yep, it is invasive because it grows from rhizomes just like your grass does. When pulling it, you have to be sure to get the whole root system, including the horizontal stems (the rhizomes). This link gives you information and photos about lots of different weeds you're likely to encounter in your area.

Meant to add your grass looks really nice.

If I have sometime tomorrow, I will pull more. Once the blades reaches the height of 4 inches, I'll start mulching to the highest setting. I've seen my neighbors mow last week. I haven't.

Thanks Mallory. :)

You know what guys, I noticed that I'm the only one who have those foxtail or quackgrass. Or maybe, it's not foxtail or quackgrass. Is it possible that it came from CGM?

Yep, I've heard of cornstalk-like growths from CGM. The way to find out for sure is compare the various parts of quackgrass with the pictures from way up close. You might need a magnifying glass.

Ron, I don't believe that you need to over think this. Just pull the buggers! If you want a positive ID, take some samples to your County Extension.

What are you going to do with the information once you have it? If the answer is "nothing"...don't bother getting a positive ID.

-Deerslayer

Oh, the reason I want to know what it is, is to find out the proper way to prevent it. I read a thread somewhere that he applied an incorrect product to his lawn due to incorrect ID.

It's annoying me now. They're popping everwhere. I'll pull about 20 of them later from different locations and compare it to the pictures.

And yes, I will take them to my county extension as well.

"the reason I want to know what it is, is to find out the proper way to prevent it."

If you are organic, your only pre-em choice is CGM. Again, if you are organic, vinegar or bioling water are your post emergent alternatives. Both organic post emergent choices are nonselective (kill everything green).

-Deerslayer

Yes, I will be doing organic from now on. So with vinegar or boiling water, whatever it touches, it will kill it? If so, then I have to seed it in fall then. And also, you used "or", that means I can choose either.

Please let me know.

Oh, before I forget, I just started doing organic just April 5. So I may not know all of this yet. :)

Yes, you can use either but both will leave a dead spot.

I would pull the foreigners rather than using a nonselective herbicide. Pulling takes about the same amount of time as carefully spot treating. The good news is that you don't have a dead spot if you pull them.

-Deerslayer