I'm in a similar situation - I only bought my current house a year ago and am still working against all the 'evils' of the previous owners.

I had a ton of pre-existing ground ivy that I had to kill with herbicide. Then I overseeded and had a very nice stand of grass going into the fall.

Then over our mild winter, the wild onion and wild garlic sprouted like crazy. They were hidden in bulbs under the ground, so I never saw them and they were not effected by my treatments last year.

There was so much that, again, I had to spot treat with herbicide.

All this time I have also been using the recommended mowing and watering cultural practices - and using organic fertilizer.

The grass is stronger than ever and is definitely keeping most weeds away just by virtue of being thick, healthy and tall. My need for chemical help is greatly diminished and will eventually drop to zero.

The fertilizer is still broken down by the microherd and works very well. This tells me that the microherd isn't getting decimated.

So, don't despair, you have not been sent back to step 1! Encourage your grass to grow by using organic fertilizers and amendments and eventually the grass will take care of iteself.

Did you know microbes are the primary mechanism that break down Dicamba herbicide in the soil?

Wild onion is a wildflower. It dies whether you spray it, mow it, or leave it alone. But spraying it does virtually nothing to it. You have to dig out the bulb, about 8 inches down.

But back to robyn. Just keep after it. In the fall you can overseed and really hit the thin areas hard. Come back here and ask about the seeding process at that time when we're geared up to help with that. Fertilize as often as you want to with no fear of overdoing it. Summer is not the best time to use fertilizer but your soil will still benefit from it.

How deep is your soil? Can you pound a spike 6 inches deep?

Hi dchall,

In the thin areas, there's barely any soil at all-- just compacted ground leftover after construction (the house is 2 years old). I could pound a spike in 6 inches (it's not concrete) but it's nothing I would consider soil or fertile. Part of it is on a slope, so the topsoil we put down in those areas has suffered from erosion the most. In the thriving areas, there's probably about 2-3 inches of topsoil-- hardly impressive, but working at the moment. As I mentioned, we're trying to amend it-- we'll be looking at ways to break up the existing compacted soil in addition to adding the organic material on top.

I was pretty upset this morning after I had applied the weed killer. I'm looking forward to the day that I don't have to go that route any more. But it sure is a lot of work getting there!

Thanks,

robyn
: )

I too used ortho weed be gone this weekend to push back the clover as the weedhound only goes so far. The house is on a previous farm that then went to a meadow. All non actively managed lawns (common areas, vacant homes)are quickly weeds or meadows.

From all of my research I can find on the web, I think the environmental risk of spraying was minimal and I will beef up my organic program in an attempt to further mitigate and pay penance for my sins. My mix had 1.56% Triclopyr 13.72% MCPA 1.35% Dicamba. From my research Triclopy and dicamba are most effective against clover. Dicamba may persists in soils and I probably won't use it if I ever use another herbacide.

I too used ortho weed be gone this weekend to push back the clover as the weedhound only goes so far.

Ditto, I had to use Certainty on my Poa trivialis issue.

Do I feel guilty? A little. Do I feel like I'm not organic? Temporarily. However, the rest of the lawn is thriving organically, so that's a lot fewer chemicals on most of it. Just that one bit needed more help.

Philosophically, I go for the integrated approach--organics under any circumstance I can. Mechanical controls on weeds. That sort of thing. However, when something's out of the control, it's time for an Ortho Assist, then back to the organics.

There is a place for chemicals, and it sounds like you found that place. You put down compost and you'll use organic feed. That's great! The soil will recover quite nicely with your help.

Figure you'll probably have to spray again next spring in a smaller area until the newest grass strengthens, but after that you should be pretty good.

If it bothers you, watch your neighbors using Weed and Feed on their lawns, followed by the Summerguard insecticide, and realize that you're doing a much better job by targeting only what you can't handle mechanically.

Hey, try pulling clover by hand, it's addictive. When you pull one horizontal vine up, you will inevitably find an intersecting one and it just keeps going on and on. I virtually removed a whole patch of dutch clover in my front lawn, my 3 and 1/2 year old enjoyed it too.

For a while I was pulling the weeds by hand. It was DEFINITELY addictive and my daily moment of zen. But eventually I realized that my 'moments' were turning into hours and I needed another plan.

As it is, I'm still spending way too much time distributing UCG, but that appeals to both my organic lawn interests as well as my recycling interests, so I'll probably keep up with that a bit longer.

robyn
: )

In the thin areas, there's barely any soil at all-- just compacted ground leftover after construction (the house is 2 years old). I could pound a spike in 6 inches (it's not concrete) but it's nothing I would consider soil or fertile.

I definitely consider that soil. If it is not rock or rocks, then it is soil and can be reclaimed. My soil is pulverized limestone. It is white when all the organic material is stripped out, but it works great for us.

Do this:
1. scatter some sort of organic fertilizer on the thin areas. Anything includes dog food, corn meal, wheat flour, soy bean meal, alfalfa pellets, coffee grounds, etc. Apply as heavily as you want but at least 10 pounds per 1,000 square feet.
2. Run a black soaker hose around in the thin areas. Turn the faucet on to a trickle and leave it running day and night for a week. This will give the soil a very slow soak. What you are doing with the slow soak is establishing an environment in the soil where the beneficial fungi like to grow. Once these things get started, they can grow several inches in a week. It is these fungi that give you the soil you want.

You can't flood the area and hope it will work, because these fungi need air to live. So trickle-soak the area for a week and move the soaker hose to another spot for a week. Continue until you are happy with the areas you've soaked. Then repeat the process starting back at the beginning. When you have finished for the second time, repeat for a third time. At the end of the third time your soil in that area should be exactly like a sponge. Recall that a sponge is very soft when wet and very hard when dry. That's what you're after. When you walk on the recently watered ground, it should be very soft under foot. After a week it should be very hard, but it should absorb water quickly and soften when you water it again.

And for all y'all weed b gone users, I don't know what to do with y'all. Please try spraying ONLY the foliage of your weeds with household vinegar (full strength). Spray on the hottest part of a hot sunny day. Be sure to protect the surrounding plants and grass from overspray. If, for some reason, that doesn't work, look for some 20% acidity vinegar. That stuff is the most dangerous thing in the organic arsenal but it makes very quick work of most weeds. My oxalis turns black in 20 minutes and is dried up and crispy in an hour. If you find the strong vinegar, please come back here and ask how to use it. It is definitely NOT for use around children, but the hazard is very temporary.

Hi dchall,

Thanks for the info on the soaker hose. I hadn't heard that solution before. My only concern with that is that the hose would run over areas of good grass, and my experience with having a hose out in the sun is that it would burn up the areas it is lying on. I guess since it has cool running water continuously going thru it that may not be a problem, right? (I'm remembering regular hoses left on the grass, as well as stagnant water in a kids' plastic pool that heated up and left a dead circle of grass).

What about treatments with Nitron A somethingorother to soften my compacted soil? I haven't begun researching that yet, but it was on my radar.

As for the vinegar, I definitely considered it. The problem is that the weeds are so intermixed with existing grass that I was afraid to kill off what I was trying so desperately to grow. I have some weeds where the lawn meets the street; if the chemicals didn't reach that area, I will certainly use vinegar on those for round 2.

Thanks again for your helpful advice!

robyn
: )

Clover in patches looks horrible and is hard to kill. The abundance of seed is overwhelming due to prior care. My organic lawn care program (mow high, water 1" at once/week, use grains, etc.) has greatly improved my lawn but clover is invasive in NE and hard to control. Areas that were clover free last year due to manual means have reestablished. I can't control watering in spring and fall as NE gets alot of rain (~1"/week) and usually excessive amounts of rain when weeds like to germinate.

For me Clover is a weed. Besides having a complete clover lawn, no one had been able to provide ways to control clover organicaly. If I should have to apply weed-b-gone at or below direction rates every 1-2 years to give the good grass an advantage, I appologize. I continuously experiment with my lawn and if anyone has a theory of organic clover control in New England I would love to hear it.

Thanks
Gary Random

Grayentropy--Until the end of your post, I thought you were describing Nebraska rather than New England. I was trying to figure out which part of Nebraska you were in, because a lot of NE is a lot more arid than you were describing.

I think there are a couple of ways of dealing with clover organically. The first is considering it a beneficial plant since it adds nitrogen to the soil. The second is manually pulling it. You can spot spray with vinegar, but that'll kill everything it hits.

I'm not completely organic, but I try to minimize my chemical use. I'll spot spray WBG on weeds that had their roots break off when I took the weed hound to them, for example. I recently planted some strawberry clover (similar to dutch white, but better adapted to alkaline soils) to introduce clover on purpose. I have a problem with black medic, though, and I do what I can to kill it when I see it.

Dog food really works? We switched our aging buddy over to different food a while back and still have half a bag of the old stuff. I haven't had the heart to just put in in the garbage. Does it have to be crushed? As for letting the hose run continuously for a week, you can't imagine what we pay for water in the New York metro area! Not an option. I collect rain in barrels, and even sometimes water in pails in the shower. (organic soap) I use that to augment whatever Mother Nature doesn't supply. My feeling is, if a plant can't survive in the conditions we have, then it's out of luck. I amend selected areas and beds with home-made compost, and that seems to work well. And, yes, I too have found weeding to be extremely zen - and cheaper than therapy!

Dog food really works? We switched our aging buddy over to different food a while back and still have half a bag of the old stuff. I haven't had the heart to just put in in the garbage. Does it have to be crushed?

Dog food really works. I used a cheap 40 pound bag of it to renovate one particularly nasty section of lawn. This year, it's one of the nicest sections.

You don't have to crush it, just throw it down. I'd advise watering it in or keeping Old Buddy away for a bit. It's not really dangerous, but he'll eat it. Once decay begins and there are bacteria all over it, that's probably not a good idea.

You could crush it a bit if you want to get it down to the soil faster and keep the dog from eating it. Personally, if I were going to, I'd pick up a cheap blender at a garage sale and use that--if it breaks, I won't care. Or, if the bag is sturdy, jump up and down on it for ten minutes or so (the neighbors may stare).

My dogs don't have any attraction to gerbil food which I can get very cheaply at my local pet place. That's got a lot of alfalfa and soy in it, both of which are phenomenal for the soil. The size is pretty small, and it's dark brown and next to invisible. I also use pure soybean meal, bought at the (semi-) local grain mill.

They all work soil wonders.