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turfqueen_gw

Need organic help! on el toro sod new install

turfqueen
13 years ago

Just installed 1 week ago 36 pallets (16,000 sq ft!) of El Toro zoysia sod in front/back/side yards. The first landscaper (now fired) put in 'top-soil'(it was really very loamy-sand (more sand than anything) ), about 2" to 12" in various locations to even out surfaces and erosion. With all the rain we've started getting, it started to wash out as I'm on a slope of about 20-30 degrees. 2nd landscaper added about 1/4 inch to 1/2 inch of real topsoil just before sodding. I lightly added pelletized lime just before he did this.

Now everything is really green with all this rain, but I'm getting some washouts near the bottom perimeters of property, which go down into a wetlands creek...Ugh! As soon as it stops raining, like in a day or two, I'm having the 2nd landscaper come back to fix the sliding pieces of sod and hopefully 'fix' the erosion.

Meanwhile, I'm deathly afraid of getting bad nematodes as a neighbor told me someone about 10 years ago put in zoysia and got nematodes and was unable to fix and had to tear everything out. I cannot!!!! afford to ever do this again, so I'm wondering what organic ammendments can I add and at what time?? and how much to add? Also I am deathly afraid of getting fungus' because it's pretty much super-humid here all year, espec. in the summertime.

I have a deep (125') well with (I think) very good water to water whenever needed, like this 1st week immediately after laying it down. But now it's raining cats and dogs, and will for about 3 more days.

Also, when should the first mowing be? I am getting the new-ish fiskars reel mower from Lowes . com that hopefully my son and I will take turns mowing, even though I know 16,000 sq ft is an awful lot to mow, but I don't want to mess things up even more with a heavy riding mower, and want/need the exercise anyway.

But how and what and when should I start organic ammendments?

Thank you!!

Comments (11)

  • west9491
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    i've heard that applying compost every one or two years will keep these nematode numbers in check. see if you can find out what kind of nematodes they are.

    man...that's a LOT to mow by foot........

    i dont see why u can't start with organic amendments as soon as the landscaper patches things up.

  • turfqueen
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks, but what organic amendments do I use and how much? What do I start with, and what's after that?

  • west9491
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    besides the compost, you could use shredded leaves for additional organic matter and some nutrients.

    Then there's the grain meals (like what you get at feed stores: alfalfa meal, soybean meal, corn gluten meal, cottonseed meal, etc) these are the probably the most popular fertilizers among organic lawn keepers. I've read people on here recommending to fertilize with feeds such as these about 4 times per year.

    most are the close to the same as far as nutritional values go, some have their advantages but:

    corn gluten meal also doubles as a preemergent when applied in the early spring, and triples as an antifungal (it promotes growth of fungi that are aggressive against bad lawn fungi)

    soybean meal has one of highest nitrogen contents

    alfalfa meal has good nitrogen content and has a growth hormone.

    What I am going to try to do is swap them out during the 4 times per year, starting with corn gluten in the spring, then soybean, alfalfa, then...well i don't know if i can access any other kind lol.

  • dchall_san_antonio
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The nematodes they worry about in Florida and Texas are root knot nematodes. They burrow into the roots and form clumps that impede the flow of nutrients. In Texas we find that people on an organic fertilizer program do not have root knot nematodes.

    To learn more about organic lawn care, go to the GardenWeb Organic Gardening forum and look for the FAQs. Near the bottom is one titled Organic Lawn Care FAQ. Read that for an orientation to the topic and to understand what west 9491 was suggesting. Something else you can try is to spray your lawn with a mix of molasses and milk, mixed 50/50 in a hose end sprayer, and sprayed at 3 ounces per gallon. Try to put about 3 ounces per 1,000 square feet. That is easy to do and feeds the soil microbes in many ways.

  • turfqueen
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks for both your comments, I am reading all I can about the organic lawn care.
    Does the milk HAVE to be raw? Can it be just a gallon of milk from the store, which is of course pasturized/homogenized, and other added junk? As you probably well know, getting raw milk is next to impossible here in Florida. Also, should it be whole or skim? Can I use honey granules instead of molasses? Thanks!

  • dchall_san_antonio
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm not sure where the raw milk craze popped up. As far as I know you want the enzymes and protein from the milk. Raw might have more but any kind has some.

    I've never heard of honey granules, but give it a try. Molasses is usually a cheap waste material. Honey granules sounds like something you would use on the table. I can get molasses for $1/gallon at the feed store if I bring my own container. Call around to find someone who sells it in bulk for about $0.10 per pound or so. With all the horses in Florida you should be able to get it cheap.

  • turfqueen
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm in Pensacola, Fl (though I'm not really new anymore!!). We had 36 pallets (yep! ..a lot!) of El Toro installed in the Spring of 2010, and it is/was INCREDIBlY beautiful. But I've had my ups & downs. The ups are that I treated it organically only, so far, by not using any chemicals, but I did fertilize it 3 times over the spring and summer with rabbit food pellets (alfalfa pellets). The alfalfa pellets helped the roots take exceptionally fast, except along the house where there's shade, and under 2 large oak trees, where there's only about 4 hours of sun/day. So, where I had a lot of sun, and had put down alfalfa, it grew TOO well!! I was mowing twice per week, and (are you sitting down?) I was doing all this all summer long with a Fiskars Reel mower, the new orange one that came out that throws the grass forward, with NO catcher!!) Let's just say I was always mowing!! Every day, I would mow for about 1-2 hours, and use that as my exercise. After the large $$$ investment in the grass, I didn't see fit to buy a riding mower....just yet anyway.
    Actually, I LOVE the Fiskars mower, but I have almost an acre, and if the grass would grow more slowly, I think I'd be ok with it.
    So, although it greened up and took root, and was LUSH and THICK and quite possibly the prettiest grass in all of Pensacola, the down-side is that I don't think I can possibly repeat all that work again this coming summer. And the 1 other main problem I had was my own fault. On July 1st, with family/friends coming over for the July 4th weekend, I decided to cut the grass short so I wouldn't have to mow for the whole upcoming week. MAJOR MISTAKE!! I cut the 3" grass down to about 1". It looked FANTASTIC for the next week...and then, boom! It all turned brown! It took about 3 weeks for all of it to come back green again, but meanwhile, the weeds crept in, especially in the shaded areas under my 2 oak trees in the front yard. The side yards and back are in full sun, and though some weeds did get in, there aren't too many that I probably couldn't go in and hand-pull. But the weeds in the shaded area in the front yard (for all my inquisitive neighbors to gawk at) are getting worse throughout the winter and have pretty much taken over the zoysia.

    My question would be, when and what should I do, for either/or a pre-emergent, and/or post-emergent, even though I hate using chemicals. The alfalfa pellets were so amazing and even my roses and flowers on side beds were phenomenal, once I used alfalfa. I do have very sandy soil, and have been warned that if I ever go to using chemicals, I will kill off the GOOD nematodes, and will end up helping the BAD nematodes, and once I have the bad nematodes, this grass is pretty much a permanent bye-bye!! (Another neighbor about 10 yrs ago lost all his zoysia to bad nematodes)
    The only other problem I've had over the last 6 months or so, are mole hills and tunnels, and I've heard that I can use dishwashing soap in the water-sprayer to get rid of the bugs that attract the moles in the first place. I still have a bunch of mole hills/tunnels in the front yard, where there's shade and weeds. I've not really had any mole tunnels in the super sunny areas.

    So my questions are:
    1. should I use chemicals for the weeds, and if so, what and when?

    2. When should I scalp the grass this spring? And how short should I scalp it?

    3. Should I keep using alfalfa, and when, and what else would help as far as fertilizer?

    4. Any other thoughts?

  • Kimmsr
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "Chemicals" to control any "weeds" are generally anathama to any organic grower. The best way to control "weed" growth is to grow a good, healthy turf that can crowd out any "weeds". Since the introduction of these "weed" killers in the 1950's more environmental damage has been done then in the previous 1900 years.
    Scalping any grass at any time is bad because it eliminates what those plants need to gather sunlight to manufacture the nutrients that feed the crowns and roots that grow new grass blades that gather the sunlight to manufacture the nutrients the grass needs to grow. As a rule the more grass blade exposed to sunlight the healthier you turf will be.
    What you use to feed the Soil food Web that will feed your turf depends on what a good, reliable soil test tells you that soil needs. Many grass species need a fairly good amount of Nitrogen so Alfalfa pellets might be one source.
    Ma Nature mixes a lot of different types of organic matter to make new soil so the more, different, nutrient sources you use to feed your soil the better it will be, and when you have a good, healthy soil your turf will be healthy also.

  • neweltorozoysia
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Turfqueen,
    I live in Tallahassee and recently laid 8 pallets of el toro zoysia (at least that's what I was told I was buying).

    I'm interested in fertilizing and adding some topsoil or sand, especially in certain lower areas.

    I know nothing of organic fertilizing. I am familiar with buying pelletized fertilizers, etc.

    Based on your experience, what would you recommend to get my lawn thriving?

    I'd also love to see some pics of your lawn.

    Thanks!

  • jmac30
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Dchall the raw milk craze is from a dairy farmer in Nebraska. Google "David wetzel dairy".

  • Kimmsr
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The "raw milk craze" started long before 2002, so David Wetzel is not the beginning. I can remember people looking for raw milk in the 1960's and maybe well before that. Some relatives spent a lot of time and energy looking for milk sources other than grocery stores long before then because of healthy issues.
    Many people look for something called "topsoil". What is that? Define "topsoil".
    Contrary to what most people hear from the garden gurus "topsoil" is not a magic elixar and neither is "garden soil". Good soil would be something close to loam, which ois what most people have pictured in their minds when they talk about "topsoil" and there is not enough loam available for everything being sold as "topsoil" to be loam.

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