Th eonly way to tell if your soil is lacking in some nutrient is to have it tested. Nitrogen doesn't stick around, so it needs to be replenished on a regular basis, but other nutrients persist in the soil.

What type of Nitrogen have you been using. Organic or Synthetic? And also at what spread rate. Is this being sprayed on or is it a pellet? What all are you really using on your grass is part of the equation. That way the most reasonable answer may be given. Also you can buy a simple soil test kit over the internet, Just do a google search for a soil test kit. Most are only around $35.00 and have like 30 test that you can do with them. They are also pretty good in telling you what you must do to get the proper results. Did you ever have the soil tested that is one of the first things that should be done before anything is applied for the soil. The brown patches just might be grubs, mole crickets or european crane fly larvae eating at the roots of your grass. Which may be why you have the brown patches.

plush, Also on second thought I myself wouldn't really be so worried about growth as some are. Why would someone really want to cut it more? The thing that I look at mostly is the appearance. As always also most say I do this I do that but really all the tried and true ways sometimes just don't add up for other people. And another thing about your post what are they considering high nitrogen? Mostly the highest that you really need is a 10% for lawns. Also on the market is Organic Nitrogen BTW.

If you're going to spend $35, consider having it done at The Texas Plant and Soil Lab. Tell them you're looking for organic solutions. These are the only people I would ever trust with a soil test. Their soil test results actually correlate with plant uptake test results, and they do more testing for the money than other labs.

Here is a link that might be useful: Texas Plant and Soil Lab

Well www.outsidepride.com also sells a handy soil test kit for only $15.99 plus shipping which doesn't look like to bad of a good investment.

Have you used it with success?

terryb: "I've been Organic for 2 years" IBDU is a pellet. http://www.grasslandcorp.com/parex.html My soil was tested two years ago and was normal across the board, yet I have a lot of patches for some reason. I do not have any grubs or mole crickets.

The soil lab up in NY (Cornell) wants $15 per test (bag). I'll stand for the test at $35. IBDU is a synthetic high dose slow release, usually for a fall applications. It retains the nitrogen throughout the winter.

plush, I have to ask you these questions, hope you don't mind. Are you taking soil samples from various sections of your yard at a depth of 8" and also I want to know if you are taking samples in the spring time of the year? And are you mixing the soil samples from various parts of your yard together? Then sending them in to be tested? What about where you have the brown spots are you taking that area sample and sending that in as a sample only (not mixing it with other soil).

seperate samples were tested in March this year, including the 3 brown patches. (Nine seperate bags at 10" depth)

plush, what size are these brown patches. The things that comes to my mind would be an overdose of nitrogen or some fungal disease. Also is IBDU an organic product?

No Synthetic unfortunately...
Patches are 3x3 circles

The soil tests shown, for example, at outside pride, would be a waste of your money. Send it to a lab. But it sounds like you did that and there wasn't a real probably with your soil. Look elsewhere, fungus or insects if it is isolated brown patches.

I am curious as to why the soil tests were taken at such a deep level. It's my understanding that the highest percentage of (working) turfgrass roots (and woody plants, too) are in the upper six inches of soil. And I also think you get a more accurate reading of what is actually available to plants within that range. If you are also testing for OM content, 6 (or less) inches would be more appropriate, too.

Yes, I know that roots will grow deeper than that, but we're concerned about the major bulk of the root system within the most reactive part of the soil system.

What say you?

Here is a link that might be useful: IBDU (and other slow-release) Fact Sheet

Easy solution remove the soil in the area and replace it. Then reseed the area in the spring this should be done. Let me see also on the depth of the soil test uhmmmmm my pocket change says 8" is the protocol for soil testing. Been doing it for years that depth BTW.

The ideal depth for agricultural crops is certainly 8 inches or deeper. You want to get into the plow layer. I think that if you browse around some of the university sites, the recommendations run any where from 4 to 7 inches for shrubs, turf, and other landscaping purposes.

I'm not disagreeing with you, terryb, it just seems kinda important to take samples that will be most useful for the individual 'customer'. False readings aren't helpful. I would also think that plush would want to know the CEC of his soil.....which would vary dramatically the deeper you go.

plush, potassium is easily leached from the soil, if you don't have a high CEC. A soil test reading at 10 inches could very possibly be in an accumulation area, giving you a false impression that you're soil has plenty of K, when it really doesn't (at least not for the turf grass use). Conversely, other minerals and elements stay put and may not show up accurately at that depth. Follow my meaning?

Opps!!! I typed in the wrong depth of soil sampling for turfgrass
Ohio State University Extension Factsheet
Horticulture and Crop Science
2001 Fyffe Court, Columbus, OH 43210-1096

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Soil Testing is an Excellent Investment for Garden Plants and Commercial Crops
HYG-1132-99
Gary Gao
Horticulture Extension Agent
Clermont County

Joe Boggs
Horticulture Extension Agent
Hamilton County

Jim Chatfield
District Specialist and Assistant State Specialist
Northeast District, and Horticulture and Crop Science

The soil test is an excellent measure of soil fertility. It is a very inexpensive way of maintaining good plant health and maximum crop productivity. The standard soil test provides the status of phosphorous (P), potassium (K), calcium (Ca), magnesium (Mg), pH, cation exchange capacity, lime requirement index, and base saturation. Additional tests are also available for iron (Fe), zinc (Zn), manganese (Mn), soluble salts, and nitrates.

The Research and Extension Analytical Laboratory (REAL-LAB) run by The Ohio State University was closed in December 1998. However, there are several commercial labs that offer the same or similar tests as were used by the REAL-LAB. There are also soil and tissue testing labs administered by land grant universities such as Michigan State University, Penn State University, and the University of Kentucky. For a fee, most of these labs will test soil, soilless media, plant tissue, compost, and water. The amount of fertilizers, timing of fertilization, and amount of soil pH modifying agents such as lime, will be given according to the type of crop, based on soil test results. Refer to Table 1. for a list of these soil and tissue testing labs in Ohio and neighboring states.

Why Do I Need to Soil Test?
Soil fertility fluctuates throughout the growing season each year. The quantity and availability of mineral nutrients are altered by the addition of fertilizers, manure, compost, mulch, and lime or sulfur, in addition to leaching. Furthermore, a large quantity of mineral nutrients are removed from soils as a result of plant growth and development, and the harvesting of crops. The soil test will determine the current fertility status. It also provides the necessary information needed to maintain the optimum fertility year after year.

Some plants grow well over a wide range of soil pH, while others grow best within a narrow range of pH. Most turfgrasses, flowers, ornamental shrubs, vegetables, and fruits grow best in slightly acid soils which represent a pH of 6.1 to 6.9. Plants such as rhododendron, azalea, pieris, mountain laurel, and blueberries require a more acidic soil to grow well. A soil test is the only precise way to determine whether the soil is acidic, neutral, or alkaline.

Most soil nutrients are readily available when soil pH is at 6.5. When pH rises above this value, nutrient elements such as phosphorus, iron, manganese, copper, and zinc will become less available. When soil pH drops below 6.5, manganese can reach a toxicity level for some sensitive plants.

The soil test takes the guesswork out of fertilization and is extremely cost effective. It not only eliminates the waste of money spent on unnecessary fertilizers, but also eliminates over-usage of fertilizers, hence helping to protect the environment.

When Do I Soil Test?
Soil samples can be taken in the spring or fall for established sites. For new sites, soil samples can be taken anytime when the soil is workable. Most people conduct their soil tests in the spring. However, fall is a preferred time to take soil tests if one wants to avoid the spring rush and suspects a soil pH problem. Fall soil testing will allow you ample time to apply lime to raise the soil pH. Sulfur should be applied in the spring if the soil pH needs to be lowered.

How Frequently Should I Soil Test?
A soil test every two to three years is usually adequate. Sample more frequently if you desire a closer monitoring of the fertility levels, or if you grow plants that are known to be heavy feeders.

What Soil Sampling Tools Do I Need?
A soil sample is best taken with a soil probe or an auger. Soils should be collected in a clean plastic pail or box. These tools help ensure an equal amount of soil to a definite depth at the sampling site. However, a spade, knife, or trowel can also be used to take thin slices or sections of soil.

How Do I Take Soil Samples?
Remove the top debris, residue, or turf thatch from the soil surface before taking the sample.
Sample gardens, trees, shrubs, flower beds, and orchards 6-8 inches deep.
For the lawn, lift the sod and sample 3 inches deep.
Sample a row crop field or garden between rows to avoid fertilizer bands.
Sample when soils are suitable for spading or plowing.
Take separate samples from fields that have received different fertility programs.
Take separate samples from soils that are distinguishable by color (i.e. light vs. dark), drainage, or other factors.
The test results are only as good as the sample taken. It is extremely important to provide a representative sample to the testing lab so that a reliable test and recommendations can be made for the entire area. This can be accomplished by submitting a composite sample. A good representative composite sample should contain 10-15 cores or slices. Each core or slice should be taken at the same depth and volume at each site. Sample at random in a zigzag pattern over the area and mix the sample together in a clean plastic bucket.

More samples need to be taken if the area was recently limed or fertilized. Separate samples need to be taken from lawns, gardens, flower beds, or shrub borders. Separate samples should be taken from areas with distinctive soil types or plant performances.

How to Prepare Soil Samples for Submission
Contact a soil testing lab for instructions, soil test kits, and appropriate forms.
Break up lumps and air dry the soil at room temperature with no artificial heat.
When the soil is dry, mix well and crush soil lumps to the size of wheat grains or smaller.
Take about one pint of the composite sample and place it in the sample bag associated with the kit.
Where Do I Send My Soil Sample?
You need to mail soil sample(s), completed sample form(s), and appropriate payment to the soil testing lab you selected. Generally, soil testing labs will provide a complete set of instructions, either with sample kits or upon request. Follow the instructions carefully.

How Long Does the Soil Test Take?
Soil test results and fertilizer recommendations are usually mailed in two weeks, depending on the labs you work with. Make sure you fill out the form for the types of plants you grow or will be growing. Otherwise, no recommendations will be given. Indicate whether the crop is planted, or is to be planted. Incomplete forms may cause delays in receiving results and recommendations.

What Kinds of Soil Tests Are Available?
The kinds of available tests vary with different soil and tissue testing labs. Some of the common tests are lawn and garden test, horticultural soil test, agronomic soil test, and soilless media test. Refer to Table 1 for a suggested partial list of soil and tissue testing labs and the types of tests available in Ohio and neighboring states. The types of tests that individual labs offer could change without notice. Check with the lab for current tests available. The following list was provided by Dr. Maurice Watson with the School of Natural Resources, Ohio Agricultural Research and Development Center, The Ohio State University. The inclusion of a lab on this list does not necessarily imply any endorsement by Ohio State University Extension, nor does the exclusion of a lab imply any condemnation. Hence, Ohio State University Extension does not assume any liabilities associated with the selection and use of these labs. Table 1. A List of Soil and Tissue Testing Labs and the Types of Materials Tested.
Name, Address, and Phone Number of Soil and Plant Tissue Testing Labs Types of Materials Tested
Soil and Plant Nutrient Laboratory
MSU Extension Service
Department of Crop and Soil Sciences
Michigan State University
East Lansing, MI 48824-1325
Phone: (517)355-0218
Soil, soilless media, plant tissue, compost, nutrient solutions, water, and other special analysis upon request.
Agricultural Analytical Service Laboratory
Penn State University
University Park, PA 16802
Phone: (814)863-0841
Soil, soilless media, plant tissue, manure, compost, sludge, and other special analysis upon request.
Soil Testing Laboratory
University of Kentucky
103 Regulatory Service Building
Alumni & Shawneetown Roads
Lexington, KY 40546-0275
Phone: (606)257-7355
Soil, soilless media, plant tissue, compost, nutrient solutions, water, and other special analysis upon request
Alloway Testing
508 Bissman CT.
Mansfield, OH 44906
Phone: (419)223-1362 (Lima)
Phone: (419)525-1644 (Mansfield)
Soil, manure, sludge, water, and other special analysis upon request.
A & L Great Lakes Lab
3505 Conestoga Drive
Fort Wayne, IN 46808
Phone: (260)483-4759
Soil, soilless media, plant tissue, feed, manure, compost, sludge, nutrient solutions, water, and other special analysis upon request.
Brookside Labs
308 S. Main Street
New Knoxville, OH 45871
Phone: (419)753-2448
Soil, soilless media, plant tissue, feed, manure, compost, sludge, nutrient solutions, water, and other special analysis upon request.
CLC Labs
325 Venture Drive
Westerville, OH 43081
Phone: (614)888-1663
Soil, plant tissue, water, and other special analysis upon request.
Calmar Lab
130 S State Street
Westerville, OH 43081
Phone: (614)523-1005
Soil, soilless media, and plant tissue.
Countrymark/Land O'Lake
Affiliated Local Cooperatives
950 N. Meridian St.
Indianapolis, IN 46204
Phone: (317)685-3000
Soil and feed.
Holmes Lab
3559 U.S. Rt. 62
Millersburg, OH 44654
Phone: (800)344-1101 or (330)893-2933
Soil, feed, manure, and water.
Na-Churs
421 Leader Street
Marion, OH 43302
Phone: (800)622-4877
Soil, plant tissue, feed, manure, water, and other special analysis upon request.
Ream & Haager Laboratory
1226 Kaderly Street
New Philadelphia, OH 44663
Phone: (330)343-3711
Soil and other special analysis upon request.
Spectrum Analytical, Inc.
P.O. Box 639
Washington Courthouse, OH 43160
Phone: (800)321-1562
Soil, soilless media, plant tissue, feed, manure, compost, sludge, nutrient solutions, water, and other special analysis upon request.
Woodsen-Tenent
313 Helena Street
P.O. Box 164
Dayton, OH 45404
Phone: (937)222-4179
Types of Materials Tested
Feed and other special analysis upon request.

The authors would like to thank Jane Martin and Maurice Watson for reviewing this fact sheet.

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All educational programs conducted by Ohio State University Extension are available to clientele on a nondiscriminatory basis without regard to race, color, creed, religion, sexual orientation, national origin, gender, age, disability or Vietnam-era veteran status.

Keith L. Smith, Associate Vice President for Ag. Adm. and Director, OSU Extension.

TDD No. 800-589-8292 (Ohio only) or 614-292-1868

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: Ohioline : Search : Fact Sheets : Bulletins :

But then on the other hand we discussed the depth at the office today and we still come up with 8" deep for soil test. How we still come up with 8" is the grass roots for most grass is 4" and we go down, up to 4" below the grass roots for soil testing. So it's still 8 " below the soil line. But on the other hand that still doesn't solve the mystery of the brown spots in the lawn for Plush's lawn problem.

I get your reasoning! ;-) Though I still stress the importance of collecting the sample at the 3 to 5 (or so) inch range, since that's where the vast majority of roots will be present.

Of course, it's pretty easy to see where the root development stops (especially if using a probe). I've recently moved to red clay land, though, where I've had to stop embarrassing myself with the stupid probe (which won't penetrate any further than the darned thatch layer, if there is one!

Plush, I've read this thread again and I don't see that you've taken some grass samples (blades and roots) to your local extention office for examination. Typical fungal diseases have very specific foliar patterns or lesions that can be identifed either by the naked eye or by a simple hand lens. Most extension offices have at least one staff member on hand who can identify turf diseases by sight.

I also don't see that you've mentioned what kind of grass you have. That might make a difference.

sorry for the delay. Happy New Year.
My organic lawn was originally established from Lesco shade Tall Fescue mix 4 years ago. I have soil sampled twice, back in 2004 (6 inches) then again last March at 10 inches. You ask why so deep? I had an landscape engineer come and access a 20' steep cliff which sits in front of my house. He recommeded that since I have so much drainage, being that my house stands in a moderate slope, I should soil sample at lower depths. This will determine the root system better as too much water could be the culprit, while in other places not enough. Thansk to this I have a built in sprinkler system to focus on certain spots, yet I still get too much drainage when it rains. For the most partr, my lawn looks 90% great, except for a couple of areas that get too much water and run off