either will make a beautiful lawn. i do hopethats all you plan on having, no garden, or flower beds------

No, there are going to be more flower beds!!! You can't grow anything else besides zoysia or bermuda though. The summers are just to tough here. Fescue can't take the heat and St. Augustine requires WAY to much water (I would have to water everyday). I will just have to battle the grass.

Actually, zoysia is a variety of bermuda that was developed in 50s and 60s for golf greens. Its just a higher class, LOL.

KK

jodonne, before you put either one in, research some of the problems those of us that have ANY bermuda around--read of the unsussessfull ways we've tried to eradicate it--and the ways we've fought to keep it from taking over our flower beds and gardens-- i' personally have waged a 40 year war against it--and i'm losing! ticks--chiggers, snakes, any of our other pests, i'd rather have than bermuda grass----

I have both. I'd go with the zoysia. Both have negatives. Both put off runners that get into everything, although zoysia isn't quite as aggressive. Bermuda grows much taller and requires more mowing. Zoysia is more prone to disease and "bald spots". Zoysia is more tolerant to shade. Hope this helps.

Looks like bermuda has won!!

The bermuda is down and even though it's brown it looks awesome. Can't wait till it gets green so I can start mowing!!!

I hear ya, veggievicki!
I have found the only thing that will choke it out is St. Augustine. And I can't grow that up here! :((

I have heard rumors of some miracle drug, but they are probably just that...

Leesa

A friend of mine had bermuda and she sprayed it all with Round up and then planted flowers everywhere. Her whole yard is nothing but flowers and water features. It's just beautiful. That's what I want my gardens to look like one day.

Dixie

Hey Guys; I was just wondering about this same topic myself.
I live in Memphis, and we see alot of both grasses here.
My back yard is shady for the most part, and was wondering
how much sun does Zoysia require, versus Bermuda.
I have mainly Tall Fescue, rather ugly I think. There is some patchy Bermuda in both front and back. We tried seeding with Zoysia last year, but never saw any coming up.
We are considering sodding with Zoysia, as I hate Bermuda.
The runners are awful getting into flower beds. The Roundup
does work well, about keeping it under control.

notice the post above, that says zoysia is a "fancy" bermuda. i cant, for the life of me, understand, if youre already having trouble with bermuda, that you would consider zoysia.be patient, the bermuda you have will soon expand to cover the yard, mine did--and the flower beds, the garden---

From the research I've done, it looks like zoysia is a little more partial to shade than bermuda. Bermuda needs tons of sunlight the really grow well.

I have had Bermuda grass for fifteen years now,however, it seems that crabgrass, spurge and weeds have taken over, I have tried to fertilize and use weed remover but year after year the yard looks worse. My winter rye grass on the other hand looks beautiful. I was thinking of trying Zoysia this year. Any thoughts on what to do are appreciated.

I live in Arizona about 50 miles outside of Phoenix. The temperature is about 10 degrees cooler than inside the city, but it is still hot. I want a grass that is an alternative to bermuda that will survive the heat. I can live with bermuda, but need a grass that is soft, dark green, not way too invasive and can survive consistent 100 degree weather. I have princess 77, but am reluctant to plant it until I have explored all options. Basically I would like a grass that resembles Kentucky Blue.

Any info would be appreciated?

Zoysia and bermuda are 2 entirely different genuses. They do look simular though and are both warm season grasses. Zoysia can take more shade, but will not thrive in deep shade. Moss or ground covers are your only options there. Zoysia is not nearly as invasive as bermuda and seldom produces viable seeds. Both are fairly drought tollerant once established. They will both go dormant in an extended dry period. They will green up after water or rain. Bermuda is fairly easy to establish by seed if planted between now and the end of May. The seedlings must be kept moist until establishment. Sod can be planted yearround for either, but there's no way to determine the quality of sod in the winter. It may be full of weeds or crappy. You won't know this until it greens up in the Spring.

Zoysia must be planted by sod or sprig (pieces of sod). Zoysia seeds are sold, but very difficult to establish. Zoysia makes for a thicker, more lush lawn. This is a good thing if you're walking or lounging on it, rather difficult to mow. It grows slowly, so doesn't requuire weekly mowing unless you're the compulsive type.

Any lawn that is doing well will supress weeds. Annual weeds (winter weeds and crabgrass) require bare ground to germinate. Perennial weeds (dallis grass, goosegrass, dock, dandylions) will need the dreaded herbicide to get rid of. Some people rave about spot spraying of 10% vinegar on weeds.

Don't know much about grass in Arizona, but it seems like bluegrass would be about as far away from reality as you can get. Bluegrass and fescue are cool season grasses which will not do well there at all. Talk to local nurseries or native plant group to see if any native grasses do well there. Buffalograss is the only western native grass I know, and it might do well for you. Lack of water and excessive heat will be the things you will have to deal with. It makes no sense having to pour water in a desert to obtain a lush lawn. Finding a species more suited to your area will help with the water and heat.

As for me, I only have a small patch of bermuda along a shared yard with my neighbors. The rest of my yard is either beds or woods. I had visions of slipping on my steep slope while mowing and watching my feet slide under my mower. This convinced me to keep adding terraces in all of the places where grass once grew. Now, my yard is made up of several small terraces full of natives and ornamentals. I still have to water, but don't have much to mow at all. Mulch keeps the weeds down and some of the water in. I have to weed and dig up small trees which pop up everywhere. The only chemicals I use are roundup on wisteria and the occasional privet which can't be dug up.

I HATE burmuda grass! I am also allergic to it. I can't get rid of it. It just keeps coming back and thru everything.

Does anyone know if your can overseed bermuda with Zoysia Grass Seed. My developer put Bermuda in the front yard and Zoysia in the back, and I seem to like the Zoysia Grass better. It is also doing better than the bermuda.

Anyone try the new varieties of Buffalo grass ? I've been looking at the website of this one mail order place and wondering if that might be a good alternative.

Here is a link that might be useful: Buffalo Grass lawn plugs

Warm season grasses do better here as they tolerate summer heat.Either bermuda or zoysia will also repair themselves and fill in any bare spots.Fescue does not fill in bare spots. When one of the plants dies,it leaves the lawn open to weeds and erosion.

Here is a link that might be useful: timber fencing Sydney

I was just wishing today. What pests would I get rid of if I could do magic. Plants to vanish:
1. cinnamon vine with the little potatoes
2. Bermuda grass
3. thistles
4. Johnson grass

Animals to vanish:
1. ticks
2. stink bugs
3. mosquitoes
4. flies except the ones that attack horn worms

Helen, don't forget to add Bindweed to the list--either the white, or blue morning glory type.

Just found this site today and the posts here about Zoysia vs Bermuda really helped me decide on what grass I will use to replant my backyard with. I live in Orlando, Florida and the grass here that is always put down in new home subdivisions is the dreaded St. Augustine. Our homeowners association finally listened to the home owners and voted to allow us to either keep the St. Augustine or dig it up and replant with either Zoysia or Bermuda. With the help of everyone's opinions here, I've decided to go with the Zoysia and I look forward to seeing how well the Zoysia will be here in Orlando's hot, steamy sun.

Thanks again to everyone for their honest opinions on the subject. :)

It's a tough call. Zoysia makes a softer lawn, but it doesn't spread like Bernuda does, at least not unless conditions are perfect. I sodded most of my lawn with Zoysia over four years ago, expecting it to spread to the areas I didn't sod, and it hasn't spread at all. I'm glad I didn't plant plugs, or I'd still have a dirt yard with a tuft of grass in every square foot.

That being said, Bermuda will take over everything if you let it, and even if you don't let it. A strong herbicide is probably the only thing to control it. It won't grow in shade, but it will grow in the shade: I had a Bermuda lawn growing up that the self-propelled mower wouldn't propel itself through, but it was bare dirt under our shade trees. However, I also had plastic down as a "deck" around an above-ground pool last summer, and when I pulled up the plastic, the Bermuda had totally invaded the area (one of the places I hadn't put the Zoysia sod down) and choked out all the weeds.

Everything is a trade-off.

I have bermuda in the front yard and had a tough time with it growing under my bradford pear trees. I cut down the pear tree (knowing it would split anyway). My yard looks like a golf course. My neighbors were so impressed they cut down their bradford pears too (31 in all on our street). Now we have the best street in the neighborhood. We call it, "The Street of Dreams". The secret to bermuda is a three inch border. As the summer months progress - add one inch to your mower height each month. By August I am cutting at a height of 3.5 to 4 inches tall. Scalp it in the spring and aerate after a good rain (both in March). Fertalize with SCOTTS in late April and late June. Spray once a month with fungicide during the hottest summer months. My back yard only gets 4-5 hours of sun so I am going with zoysia. Looking forward to see how it does.

I don't know anything about Bermuda grass, but our lawn is (mostly) Zoysia and I love it.

We are in MO and though this yard was sodded and established long before we bought the property, since we have been here I haven't had a lot of trouble with it taking over any of my flower beds or anything. In fact, we have had a couple of bare spots crop up that have been slow to recover. It is hard to eradicate completely if you are creating a new bed or veggie patch though.

What I like best about Zoysia is that it is very soft, and once it greens up I think we have the prettiest lawn on the street. :) Also, since it doesn't come out of its dormancy until the nights begin to get a little warmer, it makes it very easy to get the clover and other undesirables out of the lawn in early spring.

Interesting topic because I have to build me a 40k 'lawn' ... read green area... in the Southern hot Bahamas.

All I want is aggressive growing grass that can handle heat, drought and salt after establishment and take over weed, sand spurs etc.

So I will try to seed the Sahara Bermuda next spring. :) :) :)

Hopefully I can keep the soil moist (lots of sand) ...

(dont mind my English, I am Dutch)

Here is a link that might be useful: My crappy lawn

This post was edited by ItsJorgen on Sat, Dec 14, 13 at 10:05

Don't want either one within a mile at least of my yard. I have enought trouble keeping weeds out of the flower bed to add weedy grass to the mix.

Sandy

I'm an ex California landscaper. The thought of either grass makes my hair stand on end. When I was in central Calif, I wouldn't have clients who had these grasses in their yards. It would spread to many of my other clients yards. I now live in mid-Mo and I see it here often. But then again I see mainly grass in peoples yards here. Great if you don't have flowerbeds, terrible if you do.

I'm an ex California landscaper. The thought of either grass makes my hair stand on end. When I was in central Calif, I wouldn't have clients who had these grasses in their yards. It would spread to many of my other clients yards. I now live in mid-Mo and I see it here often. But then again I see mainly grass in peoples yards here. Great if you don't have flowerbeds, terrible if you do.

I've often wondered how the OP likes her lawn now. Like the above post--either grass? wish it would just die out on our farm!! Well, I tried to warn everyone I could...

So listening to everyone on their interesting comments. Here is my comment and hope is useful... If you live in hot areas where your grass will be under intense sun, then bermuda grass is the answer. If you need a parcial shaded area in hot weather areas, then zoycia grass is your pick.

Now, both are invasive species so maintanance is the key to avoid them taking over your plants. Dethatch and fertilize every spring and fall for a year long green lush lawn.

Water only against the weather... coldest time of th day in the summer and hottest time in the winter. I prefer bermuda. When bermuda is well fertilized, it looks like a green golf course carpet that your neighbors will envy. Both grasses self repair on their own provided watering is proper. Cut short only in moderte weather and keep it long in summer to avoid dry spots. Hope the information helps.

Any thoughts on zoysia vs. bermuda in the Orlando, FL climate? Only some trees on the perimeter of my property. How about maintenance, insects, or disease issues?

I agree fully with ceresone. And Helen, I have that same hatred for certain insects and weeds, adding puncture vine, bindweed, grasshoppers, tomato hornworm and Japanese beetles. The beetles aren't so much the problem because they're beetles for only about a month here in NE OK. But their larvae, the grubworms, are in the ground all year long. They ruin most of my sweet potato crop EVERY year. I have tried Milky Spore. They laugh. Every time I dig in the garden, I extract any grubworms I find and put them in a tray with a raised edge so they can't crawl out. Placed near the birdbath, they are treats for the birds. But this time of year, the birds' digestions are changing from bugs to seeds and they are ignoring the grubworm gifts that I leave. Other than food for birds, nothing would be lost if the Japanese beetle went extinct, but pretty sure that won't ever happen.

I struggle against Bermuda all the time, it is in my raised beds and everywhere. Nothing kills it, believe me I have tried. Not even RoundUp but I won't have that stuff on the place anymore anyway. They say Bermuda can be shaded out but I have seen it emerge through the top of a 4' tall pile of wood chips and punch through cardboard. Bindweed is equally invasive and seems to put poisons into the ground that affect germination of seeds and out-competes the plants I want to grow. I have trouble growing good bean plants. So far my best, but not perfect, ally has been the use of cardboard. It will not completely "shade it out", but it does seem to encourage the roots to grow closer to the surface so that I can more easily dig it out and get all the root. But, make no mistake, once established ANYWHERE, keeping it out of garden spaces is a whole career. Tilling will work in the short term but in the long term makes the problem worse. What's in my open areas is regularly mown, but never watered, not even during drought. And yes, it makes a lovely lawn and is a good choice if that's all you ever intend to grow. And I mean EVER.