There's a kazillon buckets of ornamental grasses in the nursery I need to move...not looking forward to it'cause they're mighty snakey looking. I may just have to wear my fire dept turn-out gear to move it so I don't get snake bit. I would wait until late fall but I need the weedblock they're sitting on for the new display area.Oooooo,I """HATE""" snakes!!!!

PP

I remember a little girl being bitten here in July of 1954 by a copper head that was hiding under some barn metal. If anyone listens to the weather reports, you know that 1954 set heat records that haven't been broken yet...how in the world could that snake stand the temp under that metal?

I've only seen a copperhead once; it was laying right in the middle of the gravel driveway, baking itself in the sun. It wasn't the least bit aggressive or threatening, but it also wasn't about to move. It's not unusual for snakes to sun themselves on surfaces that may be a little over 100F as a means of regulating their body temperature. Copperheads prefer to maintain a body temp of 75 - 85, and may need to find a spot significantly warmer to literally 'soak up' the heat, since they can't generate any on their own.

Dont know why we have to have snakes. Hate them and spiders. Judy

I see lots of grown up copperheads, but don't know what the babies look like. I've read they have yellow tails. I have been seeing baby snakes in my yard. I didn't kill them because they looked harmless and they are fast little creatures. Anybody have a baby picture?

I don't have a pic of a baby but they do say they have a yellow tail.
A copperhead is marked with rusty orange and brown triangles on
there backs and kind of a creamy tan under belly. Females being less
colorful than most of the males. If you run into one hopefully you don't
get bitten but they are not deadly so they say.
Just becareful the babies are worse I think than the larger snakes because
they are harder to hit wil the shovel.Lol

I googled baby copperheads because I didn't know they had yellow tails. Here's a website with pictures:

http://www.snakesandfrogs.com/scra/snakes/copperh.htm

We've already had to kill a couple so we're planning to go to this place where we get sulphur. We do this about once a year or get enough for a couple of years. This year, we just haven't gotten around to it.

They look just like the big ones. Thanks for the info.

Just a bit of info, seems like the first reaction for most of you when you see a snake is grab a shovel or hoe and flail away to kill it. I suppose given the phobia most people have regarding snakes, that is a normal reaction, but a foolish one when you think of it. Snakes are a valuable part of the natural ecosystem, and do an important job by keeping the number of rodents under control. Besides, snakes try to avoid human contact as much (or more) than we try to avoid them. Also, for those of you in Missouri (like cat_2100 who made the original post) killing snakes in Missouri is illegal. ALL SNAKES ARE PROTECTED in that state, and many species (particularly rattlers) are protected in several surrounding states.

I agree that snakes are valuable and beautiful animals. It is a shame to kill the harmless ones. I find them sunning in my garden all the time. They give me a start, but usually move away as fast as they can. The snakes, skinks, toads, frogs, hummingbirds etc. are just as interesting as the plants in a garden. Copperheads are different though. Copperheads come out in the evening and lie still where I could step on them. In July when the cicadas are out, they are three feet from my back door. There is a difference between having an adventure with venomous snakes in a state park under a rock or on a trail and having them in your yard where you walk.

Thats why you dont run to the authorities when you kill them?!!too bad the rattlesnake didnt have a agent to protect him when he was trying to get in my house!all he had was me--with a 40 caliber glock.(good shot, too!)my king snakes can go wherever and when ever they want--but-blacksnakes ARE going to stay out of my bluebird houses--and copperheads and rattlesnakes can stay in the woods if they want to live! hey--whats with the rattlesnakes? never used to be any in this part of the state- and i do know, i practilly lived in the woods growing up.

If it's illegal to kill snakes in Missouri, then the Department of Conservation is keeping it a secret. I've been through their website quite a few times to ID snakes and other reptiles, and also looking for information on protected species. They don't mention if an animal is protected in the individual species descriptions, and they should. Their webpages on snakes say nothing about it being illegal to kill or collect them (though it probably is illegal, just like for most turtles.)

According to a Missouri Department of Conservation booklet I downloaded, there are only two species of snakes that are threatened in Missouri; the Eastern massasauga rattlesnake and the Western fox snake. The booklet lists species classified as 'endangered' by the federal government or 'imperiled' by the state, but says nothing about the prohibitions against collecting or killing species that are protected and becoming rare. So... if a person wants to find out what the laws are, good luck to them finding any handy references.

In any case, I don't kill snakes unless they get in the house and I can't get them out. If they're in the barn, out in the fields or woods, or even in the yard, no problem. The kitchen is off limits though, and if the choice is between getting bitten by a 5' black rat snake that wants to put up a fight and the snake getting hammered with a shovel, then the snake is going to lose.

My 10 yr. old daughter came out of our garage last week about 7:00 in the evening and came running up to the house claiming to have smelled "cabbage." Knowing she is not very knowledgable in the area of vegetable smells, and figuring she meant cucumber (some say they put off the smell of cukes and she had heard that), I headed down to the yard just in case she wasn't mistaken. Sure enough there was a fat copperhead hiding out along the wall of the garage. Not too far from the door she had walked out of. I know that it is illegal to kill them, but having just read on the Mo. Conservation calendar about babies being born second week of Aug. I risked being unlawful. The idea of little baby VENOMOUS snakes wiggling around my yard is not cool. Don't get me wrong I am a snake lover. I take opportunities to pick them up and teach my kids about them when I can and of course, when they are cooperative. I even try to rescue them from my evil husband who is a snake hater. He by the way sat on the couch while I went out searching and shoveling the thing. He came out after telling him I was certain it was pregnant and he ran his boot down its body while baby after baby squirted out. Turned out to be FOURTEEN of the things! I totally understand that they don't search us out and are very beneficial, as are all creatures, but I have two kids who tromp around the yard and a several dogs which one has got bit more than once, each time increasing in severity, which the vet says can happen. This late spring she got bit just after having a litter of pups and needed an epi shot. A week after she killed that one I ran over one with the lawn mower having just came from under my kids' trampoline. I am a breeder of golden retrievers and I can't have them bit. Heck even if I wasn't a breeder I don't want them bit. Three in my little yard tells me that there isn't a shortage of them...

Regarding the snakes and the law element of this thread:

All snakes are protected by law in the state of Missouri and the information is mentioned on the Dept. of Conservation's website (see last section of the link below).

The law is not likely to be enforced if you kill a single snake in your own yard out of ignorance rather than malice toward the law. It is, however, likely to be enforced if you kill a snake on public land, or if you destroy a natural den site on public or private land including your own land.

Here is a link that might be useful: Snakes and people

Hello All,
I was reading up on this snake issue and it seems it is against the law to kill
them "unless" you or a child are in danger of being bitten. IE them making
nests in your house or near your house. We can legally protect ourselves
from snakes also. I think they just don't want
us to hunt them down and kill them in they are not a danger.
Cathy

I was not trying to argue to let snakes live anywhere they want, or let them in your house. If any of you took it that way, you are very mistaken. However, it seemed everyone was talking about snake-killing, like it was an automatic reaction to seeing any snake. If it was a matter of the snake's life, or the life of a person, a pet, etc, the snake has to die. However, if I found it in my garage, or in my woodpile, or someplace I didn't want it, I would move it (a long distance away) then watch to make sure another doesn't take its place. After all, if there is some place on your property that one snake likes and you decide to kill that snake, another is just as likely to move in. You may as well have a more conservationist attitude and move them. There are live-capture snake traps that make it simple, even for poisonous species. As for people being ticketed for killing snakes, I understand it is likely rare, and unless you brag about killing a snake, or drag it around showing people, who is to know? I do know they will ticket you for it though, as my nephew, a Shannon County MO SheriffÂs Deputy loves snakes and takes great delight in ticketing snake killers! And about the "Department of Conservation is keeping it a secret" I did a simple Google search and found nearly 100 sites that clearly and concisely inform the world that snakes are protected.

Sure, if someone wants to find out if snakes are protected, they can, but that's not what I was talking about. If it doesn't occur to people that snakes are protected in the first place, are they really going to do a google search like that?

I was talking about the pages people use to ID snakes they find in their yards. IMO, those are the pages the public is most likely to visit when they're wondering if a snake they saw is venomous or not. If they're terrified by snakes, they're not likely to read much more than the description.

You know Cathy and Hairy old man (got one of those at home), I do kill the copperheads to avoid the altercations that might occur or in a few cases came very close. And I do know the law. Many I'm sure don't. Hunting them down is a good way to make them extinct. Like as in the Western Diamondback and Timber Rattlesnake as well as others. But I want to make it clear to everyone on here, I am a snake lover. Not obsessed mind you, but I do find them benefical and respect them otherwise a great deal. They're just too cool to me. But I totally agree with you, HOM, one does need to take a conservationists approach. This includes understanding that if you want to lessen your odds of having them around, you need to get rid of barrels, brush piles, tall grass (as was in my case), etc. This of course only lessens the odds. I'm surrounded by woods so you can imagine. I have to say, even though I'm a snake lover, the idea of live trapping a copperhead gives me chills down my spine!

Last year on September 7th I found a mother copperhead with 5 babies after I lifted a large flat rock. That's a little late for cooperhead births as mid to late August is their average birth time around here. The corner of the rock I lifted happened to be the corner the mother was in. Thankfully she was docile and lethargic. Here is a picture as I found her and her 5 young uns.

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Here is a closer look at the babies:

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I moved all 5 babies and mother with a stick so that I could return her rookery rock to its original position and not destroy their shelter. They kind of held their ground at first but eventually I was able to nudge them along one by one. After I returned their rock they eventually returned to it and fled underneath.

For me it was a moment to enjoy the beauty of nature and seeing a mother with her newborn young. For most it probably would have been a moment of terror.

They usually give birth under rock ledges or under large flat rocks. These provide them protection from the elements and from predators.

I know I march to the beat of a different drummer on the issue of venomous snakes in close proximity to my home and I can respect differences of opinion on this issue, but, fwiw, they're always welcome here.

Beautiful photos, I've never seen the babies in their natural environment before. They're very well camouflaged and would be easy to miss. When I found a copperhead in the driveway I ran for a camera, not a shovel, but it was gone before I got back. I've had captive-bred snakes as pets and bred mice to feed them, so I can relate to actually liking them.

You know, I guess I shouldn't read posts dealing with snakes because I tend to get upset whenever I do! I like snakes, I have kept a number of them as "pets" (including an 11 foot python I currently have) but more than that, I see snakes, both venomous and non-venomous, as an important part of the natural world. They do an important job in controlling rodents and I hate to think of the number of snakes that are killed simply because they give someone the chills. Yes I do understand not liking them and I even understand being outright afraid of the venomous ones. Trouble is, most people don't know the difference so they kill them all. Worse yet are those that take pride in killing snakes and deride those of us who want to conserve them (previous post "too bad the rattlesnake didnt have a agent to protect him when he was trying to get in my house! all he had was me--with a 40 caliber glock" -- What a man!) Then there are those in Sweetwater Texas and other places who have "Rattlesnake Roundups" where they kill thousands of snakes for the fun to make up for their small p------s! For those of you whoÂve noticed, I live in Nebraska now, and no we donÂt have many venomous snakes (unfortunately!). The Prairie Rattler is the most common and even that one is rare. However, think I have the right to comment about venomous snakes because I was born and raised in Louisiana where there are a lot of snakes, I own land near Booneville AR where there are also lot of snakes (I intend to retire there) and in between, IÂve lived or spent time in many other places where venomous snakes are common, including Vietnam, Thailand, Panama, India, and New Zealand, so I know venomous snakes. I donÂt expect everyone to like them as much as I do, nor do I expect everyone to live-capture and re-locate them like I do, but is it too much to ask that fewer "heros" reached for their Glocks when they find a snake doing what comes natural to them?

Sorry, lady--but i AM a woman--and when it comes to letting a rattlesnake bite me--which is natural for him--and defending myself-with my glock-which is natural for me--i'm going to try my darndest to come out on top!

Cool pics Wayne. I repect you for what you do. And no you are not weird. Just because I get the "CHILLS" at the thought of picking one up or live trapping one doesn't mean I think people like you and Hairy old man are weird or nuts. I actually thinks it is great. You guys also know what you are doing. I don't kill snakes unless it is a copperhead. And I do it because I am not brave enough to do what you two do. And my kids and animals are my priority. Not that I am saying they seek out to bite. Quite the contrary, but my kids and dogs move fast and with reckless abandoment. Do you guys have kids? Or are your kids like mine?

And Hairy old man, you mention the rattlesnake roundups, that was what I was talking about in my last post about people hunting them. That is why there are so many rattlesnakes facing extinction. The kids and I watched a National Geographic show a week or so ago about the Apalachicola kingsnake in Florida. There primary meal is the rattlesnakes in that area. And they are thought to be vertually extinct as well. And they eat the rattlesnake. You take away them and other kingsnakes will decline as well. It was a neat show. The herpetologist was named Dr. Bruce Means and he was fun to watch. He was like a kid in a candy store! Made me wish I was as brave as him! And you two by the way...

Plantcollector - I also watched the National Geographic show on the Apalachiola kingsnake. Fascinating! As for children, I grew up in Louisiana with my 4 siblings, and 10 cousins. We all played along the streams and rivers, in the woods and grasslands without worrying about snakes and none of us were ever bitten. We had been taught which snakes were venomous and which werenÂt, so when we saw snakes, we frequently caught and played with corn snakes, kingsnakes, ringnecks and whipsnakes and others.

The first venomous snake I caught was a small (~2-1/2 ft) cottonmouth I found in a drainage ditch. I was 12 at the time, and when I proudly showed my dad my accomplishment, I got a good "bottom-warming." That is honestly the only spanking I can remember getting. Even then, I got the spanking not for catching the snake, but for doing it in front of my younger brothers.

I am not a herpetologist like Dr Means in the NG show who looks for snakes it just seems I end up in locations where there are venomous snakes and I have come to like, rather than fear them. The only time I have been bitten, was in southern India where a small cobra bit me as I reached for a shovel laying in the grass. I didnÂt know the snake was there until it bit. I stood there a second, stunned, not believing it had actually happened, when I was realized I was standing on its tail. I know the only reason it bit me rather than fleeing, was because it couldnÂt get away.

I got medical aid immediately, and was somewhat sick for a week, but the only thing remaining are two little scars on my hand and the memory. And no, we did not kill the cobra, a Holy-Man came and caught it and took it to the temple. I visited it after I was well, and it was a beautiful animal indeed.

My wife and I have 4 children, 9 grandchildren, and through the years have had many pets. We let them be kids who run, climb, play, hide, etc almost wherever they want on our land. We teach them everything we can about nature, including snakes. We taught our kids, and are now passing it to the grandkids to have a healthy respect, rather than an unreasonable fear of snakes. ItÂs worked for us, and I guess it works for the snakes too.

For anyone interested, there are snake repellants available that do not kill. Two brand names are "Snake-A-Way" and "Serpent Guard." It apparently messes with the sensitivity of the snakes Jacobson organ, and the snakes flee the area and donÂt return while the repellant is active. I have to admit, IÂve never used it myself, but some of my neighbors swear it keeps rattlers away and the family currently renting my Arkansas land uses it around the chicken coup and they swear by it. It may be worth looking into.

Hey I'll have to try that repellent. My in-laws are having trouble with black snakes eating their baby chicks at night and the eggs. My husband, the snake hater, is pretty disgusted. This will be a truce between us. We don't have a problem with black snakes in our yard so our chickens only have to worry about hawks and my golden retrievers who are hard on them. Especially my pheasant hunting female. Who by the way is deathly allergic to copperheads. She's been bit more than once and each time gotten increasingly sicker. Doctor has me give her an eppi shot.

You don't know by bumbling kids (heehee)...they are accidents waiting to happen. But they do actually like snakes. My daughter especially. She's the one that turned on the show. She is the aspiring wild life vet. Her dream is to work in animal sanctuary. Her best friend is a member of the St. Louis Herpetology Soc. and her parents breed hognoses and cornsnakes. So she likes learning about them. I try to expose them when chances come up. She's in the Reptile group in 4H.

Harrison Ark's Weds. 17th Daily Times has a picture on it's front page of 100 male copperheads that are congregating around the base of an old cedar tree near Yellville in Marion County . The man that lives there is an outdoors man , and not afraid of them . He picked up the snakes with tongs and put them in large plastic trash cans to prove that they are there . He is building a cabin about 40 yards from the tree . He says he and his children are not afraid to sleep in a tent near there .
I am more like the ones here who do not tolerate them in my yard . My husband and I disposed of three of them in three days from near our house , about 3 weeks ago . I saw a 4th but I was unable to reach it , so it escaped , and we haven't seen it since .

Marian

Never used to be rattlers in Missouri? I used to find them when out hunting and I started hunting back in the sixties. In fact, our dog froze stiff one day and my husband told me to do likewise and there stretched out sunning itself was a small ratter and I was straddling it. No, I did not get bitten. They can't bite through a boot anyway, and I'd have been stupid to reach down and put any other body part within range.

I've coextisted with snakes for years, and never been bitten. You have a better chance of dying from a bee sting than a snake bite. Just be careful. As for snakes in the house.....I live in an 175 year old farmhouse. I have a king snake living in my cellar. I prefer her to rats and mice and she sees to it there aren't any. Yes, I have used a shovel to one.....but only to hold it down carefully next to the head so I could pick it up and carry it out of my personal space.

Copperheads are killed so indescriminately they are becoming scarce in their natural range. When I see a snake, I know that the ecosystem is working properly. No....I've never had my chickens killed by snakes on my property and over the years my husband and I have removed all the clutter and decrepit buildings where they used to hang out. You can go a long way to snakeproofing the area around your house if you learn a little about their habits.

king snakes i like, and in fact, encourage them to stay around. but-just 6 weeks ago, i had a blacksnake eat one of my 5 week old chicks. lets go further back, i ran thru the woods every day back in the forties, and no rattlesnakes. not in our part of missouri.

I like kingsnakes too, and wouldn't kill one if it got in the house. I had a pet

that I'd still have today if my nephews hadn't disobeyed orders not to open his tank and handle him by themselves. They lost him somewhere and we tore the house apart searching, but never found him. I still keep and eye out for pink snakes in the yard, hoping he survived.

This is a 19th century farmhouse too, and during the first few years of renovations, all sorts of wildlife got in. A 5' black rat snake camped out on a toasty-warm cordless phone is much harder to disengage from it than a teenager. I've struggled with them for two or three hours trying to prod them out the doors or into large trash barrels laying sideways on the floor. The 5' adults won't be corraled and attempt to strike from several feet away, and their bites aren't harmless because they can cause a massive infection. I eventually got too exhaused to fight with them anymore, and figured I'd given them a fair enough shot at being relocated humanely. I know there's at least one living under the house and he's welcome to stay outdoors; between him and the cats, they've eliminated the mouse problem.

I nearly stepped on what looked like a fat, healthy timber rattler while rescuing sheep during the great midwest floods of 1993. Didn't have a camera, but wished I had, because the poor snakes were too hypothermic to move much. When I looked around more closely, there were lots of snakes I'd never seen before (and never saw again) on the little island in the temporary river. There are probably more rattlers around than people realize, you just don't see them.

There is a lot of things around in areas that they werent, back in the early forties, for instance, there werent any deer, or wild turkeys in our part. the conservation dept has done a good job restocking these, as well as a attempt to restock ruffled grouse, dont think it worked very well.but, to some people that werent here then, and grew up seeing these, it seems as if they've always been here.

also, i remember seeing a black bear in the late 50's commision didnt acknowledge these untill last few years

I haven't seen any copperheads lately. I have been going over to my mother's house cleaning, painting and stuff several times a week. In July I saw copperheads just about every evening. One evening I saw three at once. Now I don't see them. I know they eat cicadas, but now I'm thinking they may also eat the beetles that come out in the summer. That would explain their coming out of the woods on to the lawn which is full of white grubs.

I have my own resident copperhead. Haven't seen it for a couple of weeks but I am not letting down my guard yet. It didn't seem to be aggressive but I didn't appreciate it slithering about 8 inches from my foot. It just slithered past usually about or after dark because it has been so hot. Fortunately, it was in the vicinity of the yard light. I guess I am not the only one.

If a deputy came and tried to ticket me for killing a COPPERHEAD, I'd laugh & point him down the road to the METH LAB at the end of the gravel road...we need to get real. No, you shouldn't be out just randomly killing any old snake in your yard, because many are very beneficial, however, About a month ago I stepped out to go to the garage & when I came back I was DEEELIGHTED to see that I had just stepped over a copperhead. By the time I got a shovel, he was gone. I was so mad, with all the grandkids we have at our house, you can't leave something like that alone. We cleaned out a nest of them behind our house a few years back, I think their new den is through a hole in our foundation.

does copperheads have mates for life.when i was little my dad would kill one he would let it lay where he could watch it at end of the day one would come to its mate and he would kill that one too.for years he had me thinking he was a snake charmer.

Copperheads don't mate for life. Males will copulate with as many females as they are able to and females will typically have a litter of young ones once every two years after copulating with the best available male in near proximity at the time.

I know I'm not speaking for all Ozarkers here when I say this, but I think the attitude that is pretty prevalent around here is that I decide how to manage my own property within reasonable limits of the law. IMO, it is not reasonable for someone in an office in Jeff City to tell me I have to tolerate poisonous snakes on my 10 acres. Same goes for mountain lions. I have a bunch of little kids, and I just can't have deadly animals on my property. I do my best to teach my kids about all kinds of local animals, and basic principles of conservation. But I have toddlers, too, and they need a higher degree of protection.

It seems like maybe some people are offended that there is this assumption that anyone who wants to kill pit vipers is phobic of snakes or ignorant of the importance of a well-balanced ecology. So many people come here from the city or out-of-state with these notions that we ignorant hillbillies need to learn a lessson or two about the beauties of nature. Au contraire!!! Why do you think we still live here? It takes time and personal commitment to learn what you need to learn about how to manage land properly. And the state of Missouri doesn't always know either. It's pretty complicated on a large scale. I am adamant with my kids not to kill spiders or beneficial snakes like black snakes, king snakes, bull snakes, garter snakes, etc. However, I am equally adamant that a pit viper is not necessary to our farm's ecology, and if they see one they need to kill it. Same goes for mountain lions. My property is not a wildlife conservation park. It is a home for humans, and certain wild animals cannot live safely that close to humans.

Now, if I had chickens, and black snakes were getting in my chicken house, then I would have to change my policy about black snakes. You'd have to rely more on cats or terriers to get rid of your undesirable rodents then, I guess. My family raises cattle (for several generations) and they have never felt it was necessary to shoot coyotes, despite the fact that they can predictably be expected to kill a few calves every year. That's not enough of an impact to seriously disrupt the environment by getting rid of a species with such a major presence here. A mountain lion is a different story. What would they contribute that we really need? We've been getting along great without them for around 100 years. I don't want them to become extinct. Just extinct around here. If every single mountain lion and black bear were kept within the confines of the state parks, that would be a good thing. Same with rattlers, copperheads, and water moccasins.