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Why not Takil?
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Posted by islandbreeze 6b MI (My Page) on Mon, Jan 26, 09 at 21:49
| Why is it that growers already have larger sized butiagrus hybrids available, but not larger sized Trachycarpus Takil? If Takils really do grow faster than Fortunei, then they should have them available, right? I mean, I understand why larger Sabal Birminghams aren't available, because they grow extremely slow. Unless I'm missing something here...and another one that's difficult to find in a larger size is Waggies. |
Follow-Up Postings:
RE: Why not Takil?
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| I think that true Takil seeds are not available like some believe,Gibbons and Spanner admitted that the seeds they were selling on RPS were not real Takil but Naini Tal,(which in my opinion is a better choice as it grows faster than Fortunei)a lot of people have posted(including me)that they are growing Takil which in 99% of cases is not true as the seeds have not been available until in the last two years,very few parent plants have verified as Takil,a couple in the botanical gardens in Rome for sure.I have looked for this palm for a while now and finally have found some seeds,from Ireland and Europe.Going back a second,most palms(if they are lucky!)that people claim are Takil are actually Naini Tal,the reason,as I said that I prefer Naini Tal is that it grows much faster and is a super cool palm!The people in the U.K.have been at this much longer and I don't want to get into the big debate about if this palm even exists but if you want to read about it,I would suggest go on to the European Palm Society website and typing in Takil in the search box,there is some great reading and pictures of everything you would want to know about Takil and plenty you probably don't.I should mention that I love this palm!if it exists- |
RE: Why not Takil?
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| I bought a "takil" from a nursery in Va Beach (Pungo). When I went there Ralph gave me a tour of his property and showed me all his different varities of palms - including takil and Fortunei and was very percise in explaining the differences between the two. I HOPE what he has is a takil, but I do know the hardiness of this palm has proven to be wonderful - this is its second winter in the ground and I really start seeing growth late in the summer into late fall. What are suppose to be the characteristic differences between fortunei and takil? |
RE: Why not Takil?
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| Pretty much what Jim said. There are two issues here. The first is that seeds were only offered and sold as Trachycarpus takil after the species was rediscovered in the wild in India in the early 1990's. So those are the oldest plants you will see labeled "Trachycarpus takil". The second issue is that these seeds apparently turned out to be collected from cultivated T. fortunei in the town of Nainital, rather than from the nearby wild populations of T. takil. These plants have now been dubbed Trachycarpus fortunei "Nainital". They're still excellent palms, and have proven to be very hardy, but they're just not T. takil. Alleged seeds of the really, truly, actually, we-guarantee-it-this-time wild T. takil are now being offered, but were only collected in the last couple of years. (And I have heard that there have been viability & germination problems with these seeds.) As if this weren't bad enough, T. wagnerianus has sometimes been called T. takil, even though the two are very different. Bottom line, any palm older than about 2 years old that is labeled T. takil, isn't. |
RE: Why not Takil?
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| Jim/Johnnie, You are both right. I'd like to add that the true takil are proving to be slow growers similar to manipur and oreophilus. Naini tal are indeed terrific palms. I know John (EPS) will not mind me lifting this pic of his naini tal, it is about 13 years old i think. 
The second is of true takil in the wild, picture courtesy of martin gibbons 
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RE: Why not Takil?
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| wow, the naini tal looks great! is there anywhere to purchase those in the states? |
RE: Why not Takil?
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| It would make sense that takil would be a slow grower...all of the hardiest palms are extremely slow growing, at least as far as sabals and rhapidophyllum go. Those 2 pics...the palms look very similar with respect to the fronds. Its easy to see how they could have been confused. |
RE: Why not Takil?
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Naini tal is usually easy to find,just look for any palm plant(not seeds)that is being sold as Takil!
I love Naini Tal!this a great palm to grow,they grow really fast and are beautiful palms as you can see.
T-head,thanks for jumping in on this thread(I was hoping you would)and for posting those great pics.
If anyone wants to learn more about Takil,you can't beat the European Palm Society website,like I said,just type in Takil,there is so much wonderfull info there,very enjoyable reading! |
RE: Why not Takil?
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| I did manage to get some real Takil seeds out of Ireland a few months ago but they have not germinated yet hopefully in the next month or two they will sprout and get some growth on this spring/summer season,trachy seeds can be painfully slow to sprout but its not like you can just order plants right now,I wonder if this palm will ever be available like Princeps has become,its proving to be the most difficult of all the Trachys to own,except the one that nobody has found yet,have you heard of that one?well nobody has,I know where to get some seeds though(-; Heres an interesting pic of what Takil MAY look like when young-quite the creeper |
Here is a link that might be useful: TAKIL
RE: Why not Takil?
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| Jim, my T. fortunei "Nainital" (grown from seed as T. takil) is a few years old and is doing the creeping trunk thing as much as the one in your photo, if not more. The palm in your photo looks like it's at least a couple of years old and if so, it's probably also a "Nainital" rather than true T. takil. |
RE: Why not Takil?
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| Can anyone point me to where I can buy real honest-to-goodness T. takil seed or small seedlings and not T. fortunei 'Nainital'? |
RE: Why not Takil?
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Those photos are from across the pond and they have been at this a lot longer than we have,if you ever read the long "debate"on the EPS I can't imagine that anyone would want to say for sure what or which is Takil and whats not.
The two ways I am familiar with to tell a Takil are-
1 when its sprouts there are 4 ridges on the first leaf.
2 after about 5yrs or more you can check the"fur"on the trunk fortunei is looser and more ragged looking and"Takil"is more tightly wound around the trunk and not loose at all.
So,as you can see its really a breeze to tell these apart!even the experts sometimes do not appear to agree,anyway those pictures are from Holland or Germany not sure which or if either.
I currently have a line on some T.tesan a few years old,ready to move to 1g pots,this is the Trachy I'm most excited about acquiring right now as it is very stout at a young age unlike any other Trachys I've seen,you can check them out at coldplant.com for some cool pics.
Treeguy i will see if I can find some Takil seeds for you,I bought some from a "friend" in Ireland a few months ago,I am still waiting for them to sprout,it would be very cool if they did as now is a good time going into spring/summer for them to get some growth on! |
RE: Why not Takil?
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| Theres a place I get seeds from called europalms.be They have the seeds you guys want |
RE: Why not Takil?
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RE: Why not Takil?
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| Its too bad plants can't be shipped internationally. I can't find anybody in the US that does mail order that carries sizeable waggies. |
RE: Why not Takil?
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| Ryan in april I am goin to cali and bringing back a few waggies back again. I found a place that has 3 or 4 in stock just waiting to see the pics of it. They have 2 with 8 to 10 ft of trunk they are I think 1100 each |
RE: Why not Takil?
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I got this one from below. And it was about this size when I got it.
Great price for that size.
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Here is a link that might be useful: Trachycarpus Wagnerianus
RE: Why not Takil?
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| Ok thanks Mike. Do you know if they have any smaller ones? Looking for something around 6 or 7 feet. 8-10 ft would be a b*tch to protect, especially when they get even taller. Also interested in trachy fortuneis that size. Thanks for the tip cactusfreak. Did they ship that plant in its pot or bare root? |
RE: Why not Takil?
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| IB,It was in a pot. If I remember correctly. |
RE: Why not Takil?
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Do I have a real T. Takil? I bought it last fall but can't remember where til I look up my records.
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RE: Why not Takil?
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Its unlikely that it is Takil but that does not mean its not,if you can find out where you got it that would help.
I think its unlikely that anyone is selling Takil that size in the States- |
RE;Takil Takils seeds
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| Treeguy,tropical Ireland on e-bay has some real Takil seeds,they are gray and look like rollie polies |
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