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Can a Large Established Canary Date live unprotected in Zone 7?

Kokomo-JB
11 years ago

Hi Guys!

I'm doing a test here on Long Island this spring. I'm getting a 12 ft Canary Date Palm and plan on giving it protection over the next 3 winters until the root system is established. I'm very curious as to your thoughts, opinions and prior experiences as to its chances of survival without protection...of course barring a severe plunge in temps below 0 over a 2+ day duration. It will be planted in the most advantageous microclimate on my property.

Any and all responses would be appreciated. Thank you.

Comments (20)

  • tropicalzone7
    11 years ago

    It wont survive without protection, they usually start to get damage around the low 20s and severe damage in the teens.
    Minimal temperatures are not a huge problem for palms in Long Island. The duration of cold and the moist winters are the reason why you dont see palms planted more often!
    -Alex

  • miketropic
    11 years ago

    I agree I think with out some sort of protection they won't last long. even the larger ones in the UK were killed in 09-10 when a bad winter hit and they were well established. some type of protection will always be needed

  • Kokomo-JB
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Thank you for your reply Alex. So you are saying it has more to do with the air's moisture content and duration of temp drops. I've been told that the best cold hardy palm candidates are usually very drought resistant so what you say tends to agree with that statement.

    While it may be a costly and long term commitment, I will be forging ahead with my experiment and will be happy to post pictures from time to time of the growth and adaptation. I'm sure any Z8 can survive with enough protection and care, my goal is to find out the minimal requirements to keep one happy & healthy and see if a program can be logistically developed to offer it to the public-commercial & residential where it is not too costly.

  • Kokomo-JB
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Thanks for your post TropicMike. Your post definitely backs up what Alex said. So the key here in my experiment will be if I can find a price point that satisfies me and my customers. It surely is a beautiful palm and would be a total eye catcher on Long Island.

  • Kokomo-JB
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Thanks for your post TropicMike. Your post definitely backs up what Alex said. So the key here in my experiment will be if I can find a price point that satisfies me and my customers. It surely is a beautiful palm and would be a total eye catcher on Long Island.

  • miketropic
    11 years ago

    they are wonderful palms and I would like to have a few 20 ft ones in my yard there just going to be a real pain to keep alive in this area.. possibly some rope lights and heat tape around the trunk and crown and some type of canopy ( maybe outdoor patio umbrella?) to keep it dry and maybe it is possible

  • wetsuiter
    11 years ago

    A simple, but honest "no". They are rated zone 9 palms and don't like wet, let alone snow and ice in their crown. I tried a 7 gal CIDP a few years ago when I was less informed and it died with our first real cold blast in the low 20s in January of that year. And I'm nearly 200 miles south of you bordering on 8a.

  • Bob_in_AZ__Z9
    11 years ago

    Hi. I have a male CIPD in my front yard that has about 4' of trunk. I live in zone 9 and had two nights in January at 19F. Two of the newest leaves in the center were bronzed but the rest are fine. This palm has a massive crown of at least 20 leaves that are 8 or 9 feet long. Some guys came to my door offering to trim the leaves and I said no. There are lots of people who like the "Resort Cut" look. I think a full crown is best and my palm is one of the very few full crown palms with a shorter trunk. These palms are dangerous to work on as mature leaves feature spikes that are 8" long, strong and sharp. My palm bloomed twice in 2012. The last event it bloomed heavily in December. I moved to the desert last year from Massachusetts and I am now in palm heaven. It was 79F here today. Date palms are impressive trees and they are bigger than you think when you see them in person.

  • miketropic
    11 years ago

    care to share some of those seeds bob?

  • Bob_in_AZ__Z9
    11 years ago

    Hi. Well there are no seeds from my tree. Male flowers only. There is a female tree up the street that bears CIDP dates. Seems like all the palm seeds here in my town ripen in late Fall. There is a nice Washingtonia filifera down the street that looks like it was unphased by the cold snap I had here. Those seeds might be good to have. Many of the small palms around here have serious bronzing of the leaves.

  • Kokomo-JB
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Thank you both Wetsuiter & Bob for your posts. Here on Long Island, it more of a cold and windy than wet (other than the snow) during the winter. It's on the dryer side with low humidity levels. I'm mostly concerned about the wind and resulting wind chill factors. I have an incredible mirco climate in my all southern exposed back yard. Right now its about 34 and windy but the thermometer in my back yard reads 47. Sun all day long beating on my house.

  • Bob_in_AZ__Z9
    11 years ago

    Hi. I have read posts in the past where the opinion was that palms may die if it is too damp during cold weather and they get bud rot and the spear pulls out with a tug. I have seen members posting that they build a frame around the palm and fill it with dry leaves. I don't know if this method is still used. This is only for young, smaller palms of course.

  • miketropic
    11 years ago

    I have read a few differant times that plants can't feel wind chill only the acual air temp so you might be able to get away with it in a extreme micro climate

  • miketropic
    11 years ago

    There is a company in holland I think that sells protection for large palms almost like a sleeping bag..if they ship to the us could be an option as well

  • Kokomo-JB
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Hey Mike!

    I hope the palms don't feel winter chill because that would make a huge difference. If that is true then Long Island is more at 7-8 zone than 6-7 zone. If you only go by "True Temp" and not "Feels Like Temp" then I can't remember the last time it was 10 degrees.

    Thanks for the tip on the sleeping bag warmer-I be sure to check it out.

  • Dave in NoVA • N. Virginia • zone 7A
    11 years ago

    I would stick with the hardy three in your area. Even these may need some protection for first year or so.

    Sabal minor
    Rhapidophyllum hystrix
    Trachycarpus fortunei

  • jacklord
    11 years ago

    KoKomo:

    You may get lucky and it might survive a more moderate winter. But sooner or later- probably sooner- a cold blast will come and fry the tree.

    If you are willing to give it ironclad protection each and every winter, I say go for it. It is tough as palms go and with good protection will do well.

  • wetsuiter
    11 years ago

    Palms do not feel windchill per say. However cold winter winds can desiccate palm fronds badly. Wind + cold equals unhappy palms. Throw in wet and freezing equals damage to growing bud or emerging frond.

    This post was edited by wetsuiter on Mon, Feb 18, 13 at 20:40

  • alabamatreehugger 8b SW Alabama
    11 years ago

    I'm near the FL panhandle on the border of 8a/8b, and I can't keep CIDP alive here. I had one, but a couple of nights down into the teens killed it.

    On the other hand, I also have a Sylvester palm in a more sheltered spot and it has done very well, but it has only experienced 25F so far.

  • wetsuiter
    11 years ago

    Bottom line is that you're nearly two zones out of the minimum zone requirements (9a/ 20.8*F) for an unprotected CIDP.

    http://www.hardypalmtrees.com/canary_island_date_palm.htm

    Most successful zone pushers stick with palms that are rated a half to one zone above theirs. If you research many cold hardy palms, they often say something like "hardy to zone 8a, or 7b with good seating" (a sheltered microclimate). In the case of the CIDP in your area, you would need both good seating and annual winter protection. A twelve foot tree might be very difficult to protect, annually and if you are successful, it will only get more difficult. I honestly would start off with nothing bigger than a 15 gal palm for ease.

    But I say, go for it, if you have the passion and resources to do it!