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dln949

Needle Palm Question

dln949
16 years ago

I have a question about my Needle Palm. I have included the Photobucket photo for you to look at.

As you can see, the leaves are very twisted. The photo doesn't capture this, but if you touch the leaves, you can feel that the leaves are very stiff and brittle. Some of the leaves are "kinked". Also, there appears to be some kind of whit powder-like covering on some of the leaves. At first I would say they felt dry, but I've been watering them enough to keep the soil moist.

Any thoughts on what is going on? Or, is this normal for this plant?

Many thanks.

Comments (18)

  • guapogardener
    16 years ago

    If you've been watering your Needle Palm to keep the soil constantly moist that actually looks like the warning sign of OVERWATERING. You can let the soil dry out between watering or else you may end up killing your palm. I'd back off from the watering, especially with it being winter, the air chilly, and the plant not requiring all of the water you're giving it. So back off :)

  • jimhardy
    16 years ago

    Yea,back off!lol,my needle palm has white "fuzzy"powder also, looks like a naturally produced sun screen to me, a lot of plants produce this bananas,cactus etc,as far as the twisting leaves that looks like shipping "damage"have you had this a while?did they do this on their own?is the air in your house really dry?do you see any sign of insects?do you know where your children are?kidding about the last one but if you answered yes to any of the above questions um,that could be the answer ah not yes but the question.

  • dln949
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    Yep, it was shipped. I received it about one month ago. It arrived looking the way you see it in the photo. So - what might that tell me? What should I do?

    I will back off the watering.

    No sign of insects. The air in the house is mildly dry.

    Right now the kids are downstairs, I think they are discussing how lucky they are to have me and my wife for their parents.

  • bradleyo_gw
    16 years ago

    Sorry to be a bearer of bad news, but I had one that did that and it slowly declined until its death. I'm positive that overwatering was not a problem though. If anything mine was underwatered, but it was in the house.

    I got mine from PDN so it was very small compared to yours. I have no idea what happened to it, but it did not even make it through its first winter.

  • blondboy47
    16 years ago

    We have several needle palms here and overwinter them in a small structure outside with a small heat source.

    As for watering, I would back off a lot on that.

    Also, I'd check the soil. In the picture, it looks way too solid and appears to not be well draining.

    These palms like... no.. NEED "VERY VERY WELL DRAINING" soil.

    With all of ours, the mix is approx. 30% soil 20% sand, 5% peat moss, 5% compost and the rest, small pieces off wood mulch (not the stringy stuff and not Cedar). >> note, these are approx. measures. Point is to make very well draining mix When we water, within a few seconds, the water flows out of the bottom. The plants never sit in wet or moist soil at all and they love it.

    Here's a photo of one of the Needle Palm in a pot. Picture taken 23Mar2008
    {{gwi:1124261}}

    Here's a photo, albeit way out of focus (small cam, not good for closeups)
    {{gwi:1124262}}

    Here's a pic of a Needle Palm in the ground (to the right) in the palm protection
    {{gwi:1124263}}

    Here's a picture of the Winter Protection for several palms, some in pots, rest in ground
    {{gwi:1124264}}

  • blondboy47
    16 years ago

    Sorry, I forgot to mention that your needle palm should come back nicely if you change the soil to a more well draining soil with lots of loose very small wood chips and a lot less watering (in the winter for sure).

    When the soil is well draining, you can give 1 deep watering once a week. They seem to thrive on this. But they don't like wet (at least, from my experience).

  • josh_palm_crazy
    16 years ago

    Hi. Whats your location? Are you planning on putting it in the ground? That would probably be a good idea. I hope it recovers for you nicely.

    Jay

  • jimhardy
    16 years ago

    dln949,I don't really see what the big deal is,I think your palms fine I don't think your palm is in danger at all!Palms with stiff leaves get bent during shipping period they bend they crease they stay that way, I bought one on e-bay in December same deal as,yours,I would say backing off on watering is a good idea but don't make the mistake of just cutting of water and letting it get bone dry just let it dry out for a few days,transplanting it might be a good idea but it may stress it without good reason,if your in an area where it can move outside soon I would wait esp if you putting it in the ground,your palm looks healthy to me !

  • dln949
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    Thanks for all the feedback.

    I think the soil drains well, when I water it, within a minute or so I can see some water appear in the saucer under the pot. But I will try reducing the watering.

    I can understand some leaves getting bent in shipment. But, if you look closely at the photo, in the lower left you'll see that some leaves are actually twisted. That seems odd to me, I don't know what that indicates.

    I live in sweltering southern Minnesota. I would like to try this outside in the ground next to the house.

  • jimhardy
    16 years ago

    Good luck! I'm in Iowa and my fotunei made it trough just fine!with a little umbrella g/h and a 125w heat lamp,btw what great kids to understand how lucky they are,very funny!

  • islandbreeze
    16 years ago

    I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I think the main trunk of your palm is dead. those leaves look freeze dried. It could have been exposed to cold while on the delivery truck. Was it shipped bare root, or in a pot with dirt? Maybe a lack of water.

    The same thing happened to my Mediterranean fan palm. They were shipped bare root last November, and kept in pots in the garage all winter, only being watered once.

  • blondboy47
    16 years ago

    I hate to disagree with you islandbreeze, but I don't think that you can compare a Mediterranean Fan Palm to a Needle palm where cold is concerned.

    While I agree, that poor needle looks in bad shape, I do believe, from personal experience, that it is not a gonner.

    UNLESS, the trunk is soft and mushy.

    I think the biggest problem, as I mentioned, is that it's too wet.

    I would SERIOUSLY let it dry right out.

    If changing the soil to a much better draining soil, with lots of sand and mini wood chips, is out, then after it dries, only give it water maybe 1 time a week.

    The ones you see in the pics I posted, only got water like 2 or 3 times this entire winter. They are doing VERY well.

    dln, please keep us posted on the progress of that little palm.

    Also, should you decide to plant it outside this spring (hopefully not until mid april or when it's warmer) I'd HIGHLY suggest amending the soil to make it very sandy with the mini wood chips and mulch on top.

    Then, only watering, perhaps 1 time a week for the summer to get it established.

    Good luck on your palm

  • dln949
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    Again, thanks everyone for the advice.

    Islandbreeze brought up a good question: Yes, this was shipped bare root during a VERY cold winter week, and left on our doorstep for several hours. (I had asked the supplier if we could work out a date this spring to ship; they never responded. Instead, one day I came home and to my surprise there the box was on the doorstep. I didn't like that.) What, if anything, could that have done to the plant?

    By the way, the stem feels very firm and solid.

    Even if overwatering and/or cold were a problem - would that cause the odd twisting of the leaves?

    Jimhardy: I planted a fortunei outside last April. So far it has made it through a somewhat more severe than normal Minnesota winter just fine.

  • islandbreeze
    16 years ago

    If a plant is in a pot, the rule of thumb I believe I remember is that you should subtract at least 10 degrees of cold hardiness from if it were planted in the ground. So, a zone 7 palm planted in a pot would be more like a zone 8 palm. For example, a coconut palm is hardy to around 30 degrees F give or take a few degrees in the ground, but if potted, it is recommended to bring it inside when nighttime lows get into the 40s, and below 40 degrees it should definitely be brought in.

    A plant that is shipped bare root will be even less cold hardy, as the roots are completely exposed to the cold, and don't even have the benefit of a pot of dirt to insulate them. If temps were cold enough, it could have severely damaged or killed the palm. The twisting could be the result of dried out leaves.

    This is just my opinion, not saying it is the correct reason for your ailing palm, but it's one theory. I do agree that the palm currently looks overwatered. The soil looks very moist.

  • jeffznjz6
    16 years ago

    Here are photos of trachycarpus fortunei 'tesan'. They are almost one year old now and already they are showing different traits than a normal fortunei. They have stiff leaves, stronger petioles, and are more compact. I obtained the seeds from China, where they are reported to be a long term survivor in equivalent USDA Z6 areas. The link to where I obtained the seeds is www.coldplant.com the quality was excellent, the germination started in two weeks and was at a 75% rate. I will be experimenting with these palms in northern New Jersey z6 and hopefully will be planting some out this spring. I plan on only using mulch as protection. The winters here are not as dry as the trees habitat in China, but this may be the best candidate for a hardy trunking palm for my climate, northern NJ zone 6.
    I will be trying more seeds from this same source including trachycarpus princeps (which is hard to find a reliable source, they collect their own seeds) and trachycarpus fortunei var misan. Misan appears to be a new variation of windmill palm that is much smaller in all parts. I think this palm would be great for northern gardeners as it would be easier to apply protection in the winter. In the future I will post results of my experiments with these palms as well as other species including needle palms, sabal minor and other exotics.

    {{gwi:1123236}}

    {{gwi:1123237}}

  • jimhardy
    16 years ago

    Very cool that your fortunei made it they are remarkable palms to say the least! I have noticed with palms esp and some other plants that with these companies shipping bareroot that some of them think that means we just throw it in a box and bye bye good luck!and some of these(e-bay)growers are very carefull and do a great job protecting these plants I try and remember whos who when it comes to return biz ,this bare root thing is incredibly hard on palms esp and shipping in winter really makes recovery a LONG process esp this time of year,(some of my palms still have not recovered and one waggie is still in a slow decline!)all that said I did get a yunnan banana December 8th it was low 20s and sat outside for a few hrs when I opened it it was crispy and started to mush I cut it down to where it felt solid about 3" from soil line and in a day or two it was pushing up a new leaf!its on its 5th leaf now and has grown about a foot,if a banana plant can recover your needle sure can!but they grow slow this time of year esp considering your needles history the good news is its spring!so get that sucker planted out in the yard like blondboy47 says in some nice sandy fast draining soil,make sure to loosen the soil when you plant so the roots can expand out easily but I'd wait until then cuz its been through enough,speaking of enough.Good Luck!

  • blondboy47
    16 years ago

    DLN, if the stock/trunk is firm, then don't worry about it. Those are tough little guys.

    Just control the watering thing and add a little bit of Palm Ferts and if you can get some, spray with something like Superthrive whereever you find green. Any fronds that are totally curled and dried, I'd just cut them off if I where you. This way, the palm isn't going to waste energy by sending food up the stemp to fronds that aren't receiving.

    Once in the sun, you should start to see growth.

    ALTHOUGH..... I was lead to believe that these palms LOVE the heat and ONLY grow in the heat. But my experience here with our Needle Palms is different.

    But, as you can see by the picture I posted near the top of this thread, new fronds are already opening up. All of the needles are putting on new fronds, which I didn't expect to see until mid summer at the best.

    So, I wouldn't worry about your palm. I'm sure it's going to bounce back. Just don't expect quick, because these are considered slow-growing palms.

    :)

  • mcgyvr2009i
    10 years ago

    How did it go? Did the needle palm survive?

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