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mateomorgan

Coconut palm in Houston. From Hawaii

mateomorgan
17 years ago

I have 5 palms in pots out side all have leaves and are starting to root.

Do you think our winters are mild enough for these to survive outdoors.

I had a coconut palm (from costa rica) about 2 years old and an avocado, tree both the same age, both outside right next to each other.

Well the avocado did fine over the winter(it's now 2 feet high), but the coconut palm died. Not sure if it was the cold though. When I disected it there was a a lot of roots in the 10 gallon pot, and looked like it was doing good until it gave up the ghost.

The weird thing about palms is they could be dead for a couple of months and still have green leaves, even though there dead inside.

Comments (38)

  • andyandy
    17 years ago

    The cocont died because of the cold. If the soil drops below 60 for any sustained length of time it's a gonner. Foilage starts to die in the 30s. A safe rule is to let them never see overnight lows below the low 50s unless it is a night or two. I have been growing one in a pot since last April and I have had it indoors since October. just now an I taking it outside for a couple of days at a time. it won't go out for the summer for a couple more weeks. i know Houston is much wamrer than Detroit and your coconut would be loving it down there now if it had been indoors for the winter.

  • brettfl
    17 years ago

    Think about were they came from....Hawaii,where the average temp.is 75.If the temps drop down to low they cant survive. I live on the west coast of FL below Tampa and have to worry sometimes about the temps.Best thing to do is bring them in if you can during the winter or cooler months.

  • mateomorgan
    Original Author
    17 years ago

    Lets say I bring it in and out, till it gets 8 feet tall.
    Then plant it on the protected south side of the house.

    Would I have to just wrap the top in the winter or the whole trunk.

    Here is a link that might be useful: http://mateomorgan.blogspot.com/

  • andyandy
    17 years ago

    I would not think so. It just gets too cold even in Houston. If I'm not mistaken there are still a number of night time lows there in the winter in the 40s and even 30s. Down by Padre Island is the only place in Texas with outdoor coconuts. Even in Flodida you would be hard pressed to find any noth of West Palm Beach or Ft. Myers. Perhaps in Galveston you could get away with it but inland there's too many 30s and frost for it to work. It still can be fun moving it in/out. Once it gets too big you could find someone on Padre Island that would like it. Then you just get another one.

  • mateomorgan
    Original Author
    17 years ago

    This might be off the wall theory.

    Since they are salt tolerant plants would adding a little salt to the water help them deal with the cold.

    Making them more cold tolerant, since there would be less cell damage if there was a slightly higher saline content.

    Here is a link that might be useful: http://mateomorgan.blogspot.com/

  • andyandy
    17 years ago

    I hate to be negative but I would think not. Otherwise people living on the water where there is a high saline content in the air could push the envelope.

  • mateomorgan
    Original Author
    17 years ago

    Thats it I'm moving!!!!!
    LOL

  • palmshaun
    17 years ago

    Oh no Andy, you would not be hard pressed to find coconuts north of Fort Myers. I can drive across the bridge to St. Pete Beach and count hundreds, many fruiting, just on that small island alone. Then there is still 100+ miles south of here until you reach Ft. Myers. :)

  • andyandy
    17 years ago

    Shaun-
    I stand corrected, but i'm guessing you would not find them inland very for or say Orland for instance.

  • mateomorgan
    Original Author
    17 years ago

    I live just under 5 miles from the closest stretch of salt water.

  • spockvr6
    17 years ago

    "Oh no Andy, you would not be hard pressed to find coconuts north of Fort Myers. I can drive across the bridge to St. Pete Beach and count hundreds, many fruiting, just on that small island alone. Then there is still 100+ miles south of here until you reach Ft. Myers. :) "

    Heck....I have even seen some fruiting ones way up here in Tarpon Springs.

    Being near large bodies of water (i.e. the Gulf) is the key.

  • mattyb1
    17 years ago

    Look into a Parajubea toralyi or cocoides. The "Mountain Coconut" can take some frost.

  • mateomorgan
    Original Author
    17 years ago

    So is it Latitude, closeness to water, or salinity.

    That's improving the survivability of the coco palm.

    Let me point out that I live 25 miles south of central Houston, and that north Houston usually get's 10 degree's colder than us on the south side.

    Also out door banana tree's survive, with 80 percent leaves intact over the winter all over houston with zero freeze damage.

    How does a fluid filled monocot banana tree survive where a coconut palm cannot.

  • palmshaun
    17 years ago

    Mateo-

    A good rule of thumb is to drive around your area, preferrably residential areas, and see what palms are growing. Chances are if you don't see at least one of whatever you are trying to grow in a 10-20 mile radius of your home, then you probably couldn't successfully grow one.

    I'd say latitude and closeness to water are the main factors. My personal opinion is that a coconut planted outdoors where you live would not survive. Bigger is better as far as hardiness but then you run into problems of protecting a large palm. Not to mention the loss of money if it does not survive.

    Larry-Sorry, I forgot to mention the 30 or so miles north of St. Pete Beach. :)

  • spockvr6
    17 years ago

    "A good rule of thumb is to drive around your area, preferrably residential areas, and see what palms are growing. "

    IMO, that is an excellent method for determining what one can easily grow.

    If you do not see any Coconuts in your area, then it is likely that they will be a hard grow for you. Coconuts are a palm that EVERYONE wants to grow. So, odds are that if they are suitable for a given area, you will find at least a few examples.

    After you study your area some, youll see patterns developing as far as "what grows where". I have learned this for my area by driving around, noting what I see, and also watching amateur weather stations for back up numbers.

    But...in a nutshell, Mother Nature doesnt lie. The plants growing in an area as as good an indicator of climate as you will get. But...that doesnt mean you cant try something different. But, it does mean that one shouldnt be disappointed if the experiment fails.

    As for Coconuts up here in my area....they are not really very suitable. But, I have one anyway. In my area, one must be very close to the water to be successful long term with them. I am about 1.5 miles from the Gulf and this is too far.

  • mateomorgan
    Original Author
    17 years ago

    The guy that lives behind me has 2 palm trees that are over 30 feet tall, but they are some other species.

    I have never seen a coco palm where I live, but those kinds of plants are planted in peoples backyards around here.

    I figure they are not planted in public also because of lawsuits for fallen coconuts where date palms are everywhere.

    I'm going to repost this question.

    How does a fluid filled monocot banana tree survive where a coconut palm cannot.

  • novascotian
    17 years ago

    Its not frost that will kill a coconut(i believe they can take down to the upper 20's?) Its the long term winter chill. I assume that this winter was very mild in houston like it was in the rest of North America. As long as frost isnt too intense a banana will survive until warm weather returns. Coconuts on the other hand need temperatures to stay above 60F, 95% of the time.

    Not to mention Houston can still drop to the low 20's or upper teens which will kill a coconut anyway.

  • spockvr6
    17 years ago

    "How does a fluid filled monocot banana tree survive where a coconut palm cannot."

    First off---

    Bananas can come back from the roots. And, they grow ridiculously fast. So, even if they got burned to the ground, a couple of months later they will look good again.

    Second---

    Coconuts palms have big time problems with extended cool temperatures, especially in the soil. This is probably why even people in Zone 11 areas (i.e. those areas which do not see below 40F in winter) of California consider a Coconut the holy grail of palmdom. Its not absolute cold that kills them, its extended cool weather. I have read that Coconuts more or less stop metabolizing when soil temps are less than 60F.

    But...I say...go ahead and plant a Coconut! See what happens....About 1/3 of my yard is palms/plants that dont belong here in Tarpon Springs and having something different makes things fun. If you want to have the best chance of success, buy the biggest Coconut you can afford (more trunk = more hardiness).

    BUT, just realize that eventually you will likely experience some heartbreak when a bad cold front comes through. If Coconuts were long term hardy in your area, I can 100% guarantee you would see them around town, not just hidden in someone's backyard. As mentioned, these palms really dislike conditions that arent tropical in nature. But, that doesnt stop many of us from trying to grow them!

  • palmshaun
    17 years ago

    "I figure they are not planted in public also because of lawsuits for fallen coconuts where date palms are everywhere."

    I think their imminent death would have a little more to do with it.

  • mateomorgan
    Original Author
    17 years ago

    Well I have five, I got the 5th one to sacrifice.

    They are in 10 gallon pots outside now and I will drag them,for the winter.

    I figure once they are 4 or five years old.

    The stepchild will be planted outside to see if it survives, south side of house should protect it from the wind and also get most of the sun.

  • palmshaun
    17 years ago

    What size are they now? As you've heard, bigger is better as far as hardiness. So you might want to wait until they are larger for best results. But like you said, if you have a "stepchild", then put him out and see what happens. If possible, put him under a tree canopy but not too far under. That way it will still receive plenty of sun. This will help with the radiational cooling.

  • frmmi
    16 years ago

    mateo morgan, i do not believe you when you say that there are coconuts planted around houston backyards. That's absolutely retarded...along with the coconut lawsuit issue. With days in the 40s and 50s, how does that give you a soil temperature of 70?

  • williamr
    16 years ago

    Here in Orlando coconuts are marginal at best(not even that long term). Hoston's average winter temps(jan.63/45) are signficantly lower than Orlando's(jan.71/49) In addition to this the all time record low for houston is 9, whereas Orlando's is 19. Big difference. This winter I remember seeing that houston had a day with a high of like 33 with intermittant freezing rain, this would never happen in Orlando. A coconut palm would not survive even one winter in Houston.

  • ptmcclanahan
    16 years ago

    I'm in the process of moving to the Orlando area from Chicago. From my trip down there last week I spotted 4 fruiting coco palms about 15ft in height at Houlihan's on US-192 in Kissimmee. Average January temps there are 72/48 and they looked extremely healthy. Who knows, maybe they were just planted this spring, but I'll be sure to keep an eye on them this coming winter once I get settled in.

  • palmshaun
    16 years ago

    I'm in the process of moving to the Orlando area from Chicago. From my trip down there last week I spotted 4 fruiting coco palms about 15ft in height at Houlihan's on US-192 in Kissimmee. Average January temps there are 72/48 and they looked extremely healthy. Who knows, maybe they were just planted this spring, but I'll be sure to keep an eye on them this coming winter once I get settled in.

    You'd be surprised how well some tropicals can grow in central Florida. I urge you to visit Sea World and checkout everything growing there. Its pretty neat to see the animals and icing on the cake when you see all those coconut palms.

    Find any nurseries during your trip?

  • ptmcclanahan
    16 years ago

    Thanks palmshaun, I'll have to check out Sea World soon. My other half started her job down there last week so I'm actually heading back down there tomorrow afternoon for a quick weekend trip to visit.

    And yes, I did find a great nursery while there last week, I believe it went by the name of "Lowes". lol. =) Seriously though, coming from Chicagoland, Lowes down there seems like a Grade A nursery to me--I picked up a small coco palm for myself (9 gallon) and potted it near her pool. All the real nurseries that I drove past out near Clermont and Groveland looked to only have washies, queens, roebies, CIDPs, etc....nothing really exotic for Central Florida.

  • scaldude
    16 years ago

    Wow you know you're in trouble when Andy won't even give you some hope....LOL

    OK, I'll shoot some sunshine up your..." ***."

    From my experience, the roots are the weak point. Most Cocos, being grown outside their native climate, die from overwatering during cooler temps. As long as you do not have too much frost during the winter, I believe you have a shot. Staple a heat cable along the inside of a barrel from Lowes, Home Depot... This setup is working for me in Southern Cal.

    ALSO...use tepid water from your kitchen sink & not the garden hose. The cold tap water "could" shock the Coco's roots.

    Good luck.

  • coconut_palm
    16 years ago

    Sorry, but for those wanting to grow a coconut palm in the Houston area, they won't make it. I tried some in Galveston on the island, and the daytime highs are just too cool for them even there. Winter highs average around 60 degrees on the island. The tall varieties are the most cold hardy, and the Mexican Tall coconuts frequently wash up on our beaches in the spring and summer. These can be easily sprouted if you get one with plenty of milk that no one has chopped open. But even with the talls, the daytime highs on the north Texas coast in winter are just too cool. The farthest north they can be grown outdoors in Texas is North Padre Island. There they can get to be about 15ft. tall if planted on the south side of a house. I live in Cameron County near Harlingen. Here they can get to be about 20 to 25ft. tall, and sometimes will fruit if the winters are mild enough!

  • ksmmade
    16 years ago

    {{gwi:1135517}}{{gwi:1135518}}{{gwi:1135519}}{{gwi:1135520}}{{gwi:1135521}}{{gwi:1135522}}{{gwi:1135524}}{{gwi:1135526}}{{gwi:1135528}}{{gwi:1135529}}{{gwi:1135530}}{{gwi:1135532}}{{gwi:1135533}}

    say i got 8 coconts and i am trying to grow them in central texas any body have tips on growin them if you do email me at
    blu3_sid313@yahoo.com

  • zone13
    13 years ago

    In Texas, coconuts occur in favored microclimates of Corpus Christi(Port Aransas, Mustang Island, Padre Island) and the Rio Grande Valley(Brownsville, Port Isabel, South Padre Island). If Galveston had higher AVERAGE highs, it could probably get away with growing cocnuts for a few years, since they can sustain Royal, Carpentaria, and Triangle Palms.
    Coconuts occur to Clearwater/St.Pete on the Floridian west coast and Cocoa Beach/Merrit Island on the east coast.

  • zone13
    13 years ago

    Here in Houston, it's not about actual "Cold", but the "Cool" factor. Coconuts will stop growing when air temperatures go below 60F. Houston's average January low is 63F, and Galveston's is 62F which is way to cool for a coconut. There are only a few plaaces where coconuts occur in Texas, all below Corpus Christi, especially in microclimates like Port Aransas, Padre Island, where the January high is 66F. Coconuts do much better even more south in the Rio Grande Valley, Brownsville's January high is 69F with a low of 51F. Coconuts take short periods down to about 28F, if it warms up VERY fast. It actually snowed in Brownsville back in 2004(first time since 1899), dropping the temperature to 28F. Most coconuts survived however because later that day the temperature went back into the 70s. This also explains why coconuts can't be grown in California, because it's too COOl. Galveston, TX has sufficent winter lows to support coconuts with an average January low of 50F, but the average high plays an equally important part in survival.

  • us_marine
    13 years ago

    I say go for it!
    The "COOL FACTOR" is my biggest challenge as well. Highs in the mid 50fs, and lows in the low 40f's.Someday I would like to get a large coconut and put it in a well constructed man made micro-climate:P

  • jacklord
    13 years ago

    Somewhere on the net is a page describing how some fella grows one or two coconut palms in Lousiana or Mississippi. He has to stay on top of things and uses heating cables and other protection. Very labor intensive. But he is doing it. I think I found the link on this site so do a search.

    If one is willing to do what he does and play the law of averages i.e. lose a lot of coco palms in the process, then perhaps luck would strike.

    So yea, go for it.

  • tropicalzone7
    13 years ago

    Coconut palms hate being cold especially cold and wet. In florida, winters are dry which help a lot with coconut palms. But they rarely grow that much in the winter in florida, even southern florida. All there good growth occurs on days above 80 and they really like temperatures in the upper 80s to upper 90s. I would give it a try in Houston with lots of winter protection. 28F is very cold for a coconut and they cant survive temeperatures in that range for low. One thing I saw a lot with the freeze in Flordia this past winter was they were very concerned with the hours below freezing because many plants in Florida can handle freezing temperatures, but some can only handle very brief periods of it and a quick warmup at least to the 60s. Duration of cold, lack of heat, and moisture when temperatures are cold are the main killers of coconut palms. Anything lower than 28F should kill an unprotected coconut palm no matter what the duration is.

    Good luck!
    -Alex

  • williamr
    13 years ago

    This past winter killed all three of my outdoor coconut palms, all from secondary fungal rot. Of course, I have replanted, since a winter like the past one is rare.

    -Michael

  • pinkymama
    12 years ago

    i'm in aransas pass, tx. was on the beach in port aransas today and found a coconut washed up. just wondering if i can plant it and how to go about it. also what i need to know about it and where in the yard i would need to plant it once it gets large enough (if). should i remove the hairy husk or not? it has slimy green seaweed all over it. i'm not possitive on the type but its more elongated than round and pretty large.

  • wetsuiter
    12 years ago

    No telling where that coconut came from or how long its been floating around the Gulf. They are notoriously difficult to sprout outside of the tropics because they need lots of warmth and moisture. If you're going to attempt to sprout this nut, I'd clean off the seaweed/algae. Don't remove the shell as they sprout through it in nature when they wash up on beaches. At least you have a good, warm location going into the hottest time of the year which will help, provided the nut is viable. In nature they sprout on top of the sand, grass, piles of other coconuts or where ever they fall. I'd just put it in the warmest, sunniest spot you have and let mother nature do her thing. They often sprout out a green shoot from the top end first, before any tap root emerges from the underside. So you won't even need to waste effort on a pot or soil until you know you have something growing. It may take all spring and summer. Be patient and good luck.

  • tropicbreezent
    12 years ago

    If you shake the coconut you should be able to hear the liquid sloshing around inside. That means it's still good. If you don't hear (or feel) any liquid sloshing around then it can mean one of two things. Firstly, that it has already started to sprout and has used up that liquid. Second, that it is dead and that's the end of the story.

    If you check it out you'll see they have what you could call 3 sides. Not completely flattened, more rounded but still 3 sides. Lay them on the larger side (2 will be the same, smaller) on soil, no need to bury.

    They don't have a tap root, but a whole series of roots more like cables. These break through the husk and enter the soil. The shoot will come out the top and put out a few small leaves.

    They like good strong sunlight, and of course warm temperatures. They don't need seawater, but some people give them a bit now and then. Seawater contains a lot of minerals they would naturally get from being coastal plants. Not essential though. You've probably seen photos of them growing on beaches where they sometimes get waves breaking onto them and get salt spray a lot of the time.

    Good luck with it.

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