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palm stress?
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Posted by tnwindmill 7 (My Page) on Sun, Jun 28, 09 at 7:50
My windmills are pretty wilted right now. Also noticed as of late a slight change in color in some of the fronds to a light green or maybe a little yellowish tint. The upper newest fronds look good and stout still, not wilted. Is this normal during these high temps, (90 to 94 for almost two weeks in full sun) or I over or under watering my trees possibly? Just curious. It doesn't appear to be anything major, but just wondered.
Thanks. |
Follow-Up Postings:
RE: palm stress?
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| What is your watering method as of right now? |
RE: palm stress?
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| We've been running right around 100* for weeks and mine look great. Like mastiffhoo was saying... what's your watering method? Probably nothing to do with the higher temps. |
RE: palm stress?
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One other thing that imght be a factor is our rain lately. In the 14 day period, we have had probably 5 or six BIG storms with lots of pounding rain for a few or several hours at a time. My watering method has been, if we don't get any rain I water them every day. I don't water them much, maybe a 2 or 3 minutes per tree around the trunk and canopy evenly with a water hose sprayer on shower setting. If we get a soft rain, I might skip the next day. If we get one of these storms I usually skip 2 days. I guess my logic is to try not to let them dry out in this heat and sun, but yet don't let the root ball soak either. They have been in the ground since mid April. Planted them from pots with a good root ball. Dug a hole 3 times the diameter of the root ball, left the top of the rot ball about 2" above the grade, and used a mix of potting soil, native soil, sand, and bed builder mulch. I don't really know what bed builder mulch is, but I was told it was good for planting. I also mixed in a palm fertilizer which contained mycorizal fungi, then mulched 2". Tried to do everything that I read was good for them, but time will tell. Anyway, I just included all this so you guys would know what type of drainage situation I have. Maybe not the best, but as good as I knew how to improve it.
Thanks. |
RE: palm stress?
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RE: palm stress?
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| Do they recover at night? |
RE: palm stress?
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RE: palm stress?
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| If you are watering them everday then you are watering WAY too much. If we do not get rain, I give them a light soaking MAYBE once a week, and that is really to give it some miracle grow. It sounds like you are drowning your trees. |
RE: palm stress?
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| Thanks mastiffhoo. I figured as much. I read where new palms should be watered every day or other day for the first 6 months or so while getting established, but it seemed like a lot for this type of tree. I'll water less often for sure then. |
RE: palm stress?
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| Youre welcome, and your place looks great. Is this the first year in the ground? What type of protection do you plan on using in the winter? I would probably wait at least a couple weeks before watering again... |
RE: palm stress?
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| Thanks. Yep, first year for all my palms. I got these 2 in April and planted them. Since then I got 3 more 2' windmills in the ground, 2 Pindos in pots, and 1 two trunked Pygmy Date that is about 6' tall in a pot. I'd like to post some pics of all of them sometime. My plan is to bring the 2 Pindos and Pygmy in this winter, but next year I might plant the Pindos if I decide on a good place for them. Haven't quite decided on how to protect all the windmills. If all goes well I'd like to add 8 or 9 big windmills around the outside of my pool fence perimter next year. I guess I've got the palm bug. They just make such a difference around a pool like mine. I've been reading up on alot of different methods people have used successfully on the forum. What do you recommend? |
RE: palm stress?
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| My guess is that you have over-watered them also. I'd definitely cut back on watering. They will show you different signs if they are needing water badly. Another thing to consider is the water itself. Two concerns. 1: As close to the pool as they are, do they ever suffer splashes of pool water? 2: I learned on my trachys, they do not like hard water and/or clorinated tap water. Ever since I started watering mine only with home-distilled water and/or rain water, they have shown an improvement. Distill your tap water, you might be surprised at the reaction your plants will have. My method is simply several 5 gallon buckets filled from the hose. They sit in the sun for 2 or 3 days, then the water is ready to use. Not very sophisticated, but it works! By the way, nice looking yard! We have a pool also, but really envy your zone there. I couldn't imagine what my yard would look like if I didn't have to worry as much about winter protection. My 7-foot trachy, 3-foot needle, and basjoos will be enough work! Also, have you considered adding musa basjoos? They really make a pool/yard area look tropical, and they grow fast as weeds. They would grow to 12+ feet in a growing season in your zone. Mine seem to be growing visibly every day. It's fun to watch, I started the season with one of them being a seedling in the ground, it has grown more than 2 feet in the last 2 weeks, and it puts on a new leaf every day, always a bigger leaf than the last one it put out. The leaves are now passing 2+ feet long and about a foot wide. Something worth checking out anyway... |
RE: palm stress?
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| A REALLY good place to go for information is the Virginia Palm Society. They have a message board with very knowledgable and friendly folks from people in your our zone. http://members7.boardhost.com/VPSB/ |
Here is a link that might be useful: VPS
RE: palm stress?
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| Thanks everyone for your responses. I'm anxious to see if they perk up in a month or two after I lay off the watering. My 2' windmills are just starting to show a hint of the same problem, so maybe I'll head the wilting off at the pass now that I know what the problem is. |
RE: palm stress?
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| Part of what you are seeing with these may be normal wind damage in addition to some minor wilting.It is amazing to me how plants can move so much water from the soil.Plants get most of their water from the tender feeder roots at the end of the root system which is what gets damaged every time they are disturbed,transplanted,etc,once the leaves get bent like that they really do not recover to their previous condition,most Trachys,etc are raised in areas with a lot of other palms/plants(sheltered) and become a little sun/wind damaged when put out all on their own.Yours look great buy the way,very healthy palms! |
RE: palm stress?
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| Sounds like I should water my trees in the ground once a week or so during the summer. Should my potted Pindos and Pygmy Date be watered more often since they should dry out quicker? |
RE: palm stress?
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| curious tnwindmill, where did you purchase your windmills and if you do not mind me asking, how much? they are very pretty specimans. |
RE: palm stress?
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| Got them at a local nursery for $180 each. One was about 5' and one about 4'-6". They were grown by Monrovia, and were grown with mycorizzal fungi in the soil, which I like b/c I add it during planting if not. I later noticed browsing ebay that I could get them considerably cheaper from a few retailers, but also noticed some of the cheaper ones were definitely not the same product. Saw a few pics that were less full and more leggy trees. Still nice, but just not the same. It seems no local businesses can compete with the internet these days, but there's something to be said for being able to go hand pick your trees and see exactly what you are getting. There's nothing more disappointing than ordering from an unknown source without actually seeing exactly what you're getting, and then receiving something at your door you really don't want. I try to think long term, you know? I was surprised that my local nursery had 6 or 8 of these and several smaller ones. |
RE: palm stress?
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| Keep an eye on the upper leaves for folding like the older ones are doing.As far as the frequency of watering goes,I would feel the soil by hand or get a moisture meter instead of just watering at a set interval,some of my palms dry out more quickly than others and need water every few days and some will stay wet for a week,the soil just needs to dry out a little between waterings.-What I mean by checking to see if the leaves begin to fold up on newer fronds is that,root damage causes this and if it is serious it will spread to the newest leaves,also watch for any signs of growth,if the plalm is still growing it will balance it's self out in time as it settles in and is probably just fine,good luck! |
RE: palm stress?
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Thanks jimhardy,
The upper fronds on both seem strong for now. I figure some of the wilting is probably from those windy storms we have with hard pounding rain, don't you think? I do have one of those cheap moisture meters from home depot for $8. It seems to be consistently accurate for $8. I didn't know how well it would work. If it begins to show signs of root damage down the road is what would you do about it? That seems like a tough problem to alleviate. |
RE: palm stress?
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| It's hard to say, but they actually look dry to me. The soil in your pics looks very dry compared to mine. We've been getting a lot of rain and I water mine regularly when we do not get any rain and it's doing great. Also... make sure you're not getting water into the bud area as it can cause the bud damage like in your pic. It will cause bud rot. If you're not doing this... it could be something else causing this. |
RE: palm stress?
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| Tnwindmill- I have one of the same brand trachys you describe (Monrovia). I keep it potted for now, as it is not big enough to plant in the ground here yet (in my opinion). It is over 4 feet tall and has a nice thick trunk. The Monrovia trachys are fantastic quality. I bought mine locally also, I was very surprised to even see one available around here! Mine is totally thriving, and I thought I would share what I have done with it since getting it in early April. Maybe it could help you with yours?? It has been outside near my pool since i got it and put it in a bigger pot. All I have given it as far as fertilizer is a modest dose of Carl Pool Palm Food, and a couple moderate doses of Milorganite. I've found the rumors about Milorganite to be true, everything I have used it on has gone crazy! I have barely watered the Monrovia trachy, mostly allowing it to get taken care of by rain. The top inch of soil stays pretty dry, a couple inches down it remains moist, but not real wet. Getting a modest rain about weekly, it has done great. This trachy has suffered zero transplant shock, every leaf is green and healthy. It has been a real trooper, standing up to some strong winds very well. Since early April, it has produced 2 totally new spears, 2 of the unopened spears from when I got it have grown and completely opened into nice new, big fans. I am completely amazed at the growth rate of this potted trachy! Bottom line here, this one is not a heavy drinker. Granted it is in a 15-gal pot, it has just amazed me. Of my 4 trachys, 3 potted, 1 in ground, it is the greenest, most healthy looking tree. I will try to get some pictures taken and post them. |
RE: palm stress?
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Thanks guys.
Jay- I can't say if the bud damage was there before I purchased the tree or not, as they were barely creeping out at that time. The good thing is, they continued to grow and spread quickly as if nothing was wrong. Overall the tree has continued consistent growth since planted in April, so I guess that's the most important thing.
mnpalms-I'm surprised they had you found trachys there also. From what I've read Monrovia is known for top notch specimens. If you could get some pics on here I'd love to see them. |
RE: palm stress?
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| These two are continuing their downward spiral. I've noticed over the last several days the frond wilting getting worse and the color changing more yellow. It rained hard one night this week, other than that no water since last weekend. Hopefully overwatering is the culprit. |
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