Topher-
The dwarf, they are a few degrees more cold hardy and from a practical standpoint they don't grow "tall" as fast. That is not to say that you won't see great growth. They tend to push more fronds out over a given time than talls. The fronds just dont grow as "tall" (pardon the pun). I would suggest getting a small sprouting one and bringing it back in your suitcase. I'm not sure what issues might arise if they know you're bringing one back.

Andy
I think that that could be an issue
but i also figured some would sell them concealed as i have seen some others do : )

I brought one back i n my carry on once (February 06). i had no problem.

Though the dwarf variety does stay smaller, I have always heard that it is less cold hardy, down to about 29 degrees as opposed to the tall variety down to about 27 degrees. Most of the ones in the Harlingen/Brownsville, Port Isabel/South Padre area that I have seen are Mexican Talls, though we do have a few of the dwarf varieties. I have only heard one person that has a nursery tell me that the dwarf variety is slightly more cold hardy, but up to that point, I had always heard that the talls can take a little more cold. I have seen an unprotected Mexican Tall about 23ft. tall on the west side of Harlingen, and two Jamaica Talls about 30ft. tall as far north as Clearwater Beach, Florida. All the Malayan Dwarfs I have seen over here in the Harlingen area are closer to the coast, and the ones I have seen in Florida are from St. Petersburg Beach southward, with the exception of some near the dolphin tanks at Sea World in Orlando.

Coconut_Palm

--How do the coconut species survive in Texas? With January highs only reaching the upper 60s in that part of Texas (Harlingen/Brownsville, Port Isabel/South Padre); this seems a bit too cold for coconut palms. Have the coconut palms you seen there been successful for quite some time?

I am relocating to the Orlando, Florida area in early October and was even concerned about growing coconut palms there, as January highs are only lower 70s with lows near 50. It's great if this can be done, but it seems upper 60s is just too cold for coconuts long-term.

I'll definitely have to check out the tall species since two degrees really does make a world of a difference when that rare freeze occurs in Central Florida.

Thanks for any insight you can provide!

Paul

paul, the coco's that grow in south texas must do ok, because that is where my sprouted coco is from... the fabulous beach of south padre island :) mine is a "tall" and The good thing is maybe its a little hardier then the pure carribean ones.

If you are on the water like the Padre islands it really keeps those temps up at night. More humidity daytime = lower temps (I didn't say more comfortable) more humidity nighttime = higher temps

spataro never did pay me for the coconut i shipped to him.
coconuts dont live long in Texas, it does not matter if they are dwarf, tall, yellows or greens...they last for a few years and then they crater. even if they dont die from a direct shot of cold they get weak and scrgaggly and eventually get the business end of the chainsaw.
in the last 40 years there have been a number of major nursery operators here in the valley try coconuts on a large scale effort. THEY ALL FAILED! because the coconuts end up dying wether from cold or lethal yellowing. you have to go about 5 to 6 hours south of here, into mexico before coconuts can survive longterm. down around tampico and south.
the few you see in and around the valley here are the exceptions to the rule, and if you have beeen around native coconut stands and know much about palms you will notice that the ones here are nowhere near as robust as the ones from a more tropical climate. growthrates are severly retarded.
and brian, ouch looks like the sox bombed again!!!!

Actually the Sox just dumped my Tigers 5-3 and the Tigers put one of their AAA pitchers on the mound tonight because of the double header. God forbid a pitcher in todays MLB actually pitch on 4 days rest.

yesterday was the loss i was refering to.

I know I was just updating as they had an afternoon game. Go Tigers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

To ptmcclanahan:

I was told that the last coconut killing freeze to hit the Lower Rio Grande Valley was the 1989 freeze in which it got down to 16 degrees in Brownsville! For several years after that, people stopped trying to grow them here, but due to the recent mild winters, people are starting to grow them again. I was also told by a woman who has had a nursery here for many years that in the 1970's, there was a lot of coconut palms in the Lower Rio Grande Valley! Unfortunately, these were all wiped out by the 1983 freeze. In that freeze, the temperature got all the way down to 21 degrees on South Padre Island, which is virtually unheard of for them to get below 30! They usually don't get below 34 or 35 on the coldest morning of the year, which makes them borderline Zone 10b and also makes them the most tropical spot in Texas.

As far as winter temperatures are concerned, Harlingens averages for January are a high of 67 and low of 48, while Brownsville's are a high of 68 and low of 49. For Port Isabel, it is approximately a high of 66 and low of 51, and for South Padre, high of 65 and low of 53. I would not recommend trying to grow coconut palms near McAllen or farther inland, since they have a higher risk of frosts and freezes there, though I have heard of a producing Maypan coconut palm growing in a protected alcove on the south side of a house in McAllen!

As far as you growing coconut palms in Orlando, you should have no problem, especially if you are going to be living on the south side of town or on the south side of one of the many lakes there. The lake microclimate effect works much like it does here where there are resacas (old river beds of the Rio Grande). Living on the south side of these can often mean the difference between what you can and can't grow. The couple of degrees of warming effect from the water on a cold winter night is all you need often times to keep cold tender tropicals alive! If you are worried about growing coconut palms in Orlando, just plant Jamaican Talls on the north side of your house, and plant your Malayan Dwarfs on the south side. Remember to use a good palm fertilizer with micronutrients about 3 times per year: Spring, Summer, and Fall on your Malayans to keep them looking healthy. Talls usually do not need any fertilizer, but both varieties can benenfit from mulch a few times per year.

Happy Coconut Planting,
John

Have fun on your cruise topher!

John and everyone else--thanks for all the coconut help! =)

Just 2 months ago I really didn't know anything about coconut palms, as I never really read or experimented with these up here. But lately I've been taking up a lot of interest with them. It's never going to be as easy to grow these as roebies or washies for example, but I suppose that's exactly where the fun steps in.

Paul

Ah palmfarmer....i didn't see that you stooped in with your sarcasm! How have you been.....still telling lies i see

how is it a lie when you never paid me? whining about how somebody in your family died(of a broken heart cuz your such a dissapointment) and how you would send the money...but never did..and then thru another post it's come to light that your a cop ?!?!? lousy dirty cop! you know and GOD knows that your a theif! no sarcasm there oinker!
and YEAHHHHH HOOOO the sox took it up the shorts against the jays today !!! congratulations you lousy dirty cop!
watch out for karma piggy wiggy it's got a funny way of spanking people! And then again I have to sorta laugh at you gettin all whiny about your pygmy date palm ,"oooo it's loosin a frond sniff sniff what could it be I hope its not an air pocket!?!?..I better post on several boards cuz I am to much of a wanker and need reassurance!"
air pockets what a goofus!!
sooooooowwweeeeee piggy piggy

so mwho is lying? check the chicago suburban yard pics thread where spataro admits he has not taken care of paying for his coconut!!! there you have it caught with his pants down!! this is a person who is supposed to uphold the law, instead he breaks it! how nice I hope everybody in chi town feels safer knowing spataro51 is out there "protecting" them!!

lol

To the poster moving to Orlando, I'd plant one in a spot where it won't be missed at some point in the future. Hard to believe in recent years, but a line from Stuart to Ft. Myers is considered the northern "safe" limit for coconuts.

St.Peterburg Jan avg: 69/54
Tampa Jan avg: 70/54
Orlando Jan avg: 72/50
-------------------------
Brownsville Jan avg: 69/50
South Padre Island Jan avg: 67/52
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It's all a matter of how inland you go, the ocean moderates coastal temperatures, so the coast won't be as hot as inland locations.
BUT, inland locations are MUCH more prone to frost.
Saint Petersburg has much more healthy looking coconuts then Tampa, but it's average Jan high is only 69F. South Padre Island absolute minimums are 2-4F warmer then Brownsville's, yet its Jan high is only 67F. Tampa is warmer then Orlando, yet its Jan high is lower, because of its proximity to the coast. Orlando is very marginal area for coconuts, and you can only get a few years out of them there, unless you're on a lake microclimate or in the heat island of Orlando. Absolute minimums for Orlando are even colder then Brownsville absolute minimums during most winters.

This years absolute minima:
Orlando:28F
Brownsville:28F
SPI:32F
St.Pete:33F

Most of St. Pete got down to 28F this winter, but I'd say it all was colder than 33F. The Jamaican talls at Kopsick are the most damaged that they have ever been, and may not make it. It looks worse there than it does at Selby Gardens in Sarasota, and their minimum was 28F as well (I think it stayed cold for longer in St. Pete)

I know Im a little late but I like the Jamacian tall. But I like the Samoan dwarf more than the malayan dwarf.

Dwarfs are definitely better for the Northern grower who is container gardening. A big advantage of the dwarfs is that they start to develop split leaves when they are quite small. In South Florida, the Malayan dwarf also has the advantage of not being prone to the disease 'lethal yellowing'. I think the one I currently have is a dwarf--will know later this summer as the new leaves expand.