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leekle2mane

Sabal etonia, Serenoa repens or...

I got a call from my In-Laws yesterday saying that they had some palm volunteers under their Water Oak that they wanted gone... or as they called them 'Florida Weeds'. I told them I would come take them off their hands hoping that the volunteers might be Sabal palmettos. Upon seeing the fronds, I knew they weren't Sabal palmettos, or at least felt fairly certain they weren't, and figured they might be Sabal etonia, Sabal minor or Serenoa repens. Upon digging them up and seeing what was below the soil, I kind of ruled out Sabal minor. And once I got them home and compared them to pictures in my book of Florida native plants, I felt more sure that they might be either S. etonia or S. repens. But looking at the fronds and the wispy filaments coming off them, I'm leaning toward the S. etonia as the pictures I have of the S. repens don't show these filaments.

All that said, I'm very much a novice to palms and I know that there are plenty of exotic palms out there that would happily grow in my neck of Florida. And some of them have similar palmate fronds and the wispy filaments (Doesn't the Chinese Fan have similar qualities?). In the interest of planting these in the right spot for them, I want to get confirmation or clarification on their IDs. So below I have a couple of pictures of what was dug up. The first is the largest specimen and had the most damage done to the root system while being dug up. I feel fairly confident with enough nursing it will recover. The second picture is a better look of the fronds, which thankfully are their mature shape and no longer in the grass phase.


Thank you in advance for ya'lls expert, in comparison, help.

Comments (8)

  • jfacendola
    10 years ago

    It is a Sabal of some kind, I don't think what was underground rues out S. minor. A closer pic of where leaf attaches to the stem would better help ID between the two. Based on when I can see from the pic, Looks like a S. palmetto, but I have no experience with S. etonia. Palmetto leaves are not as strongly costapalmate when young, so they don't quite look like just a tiny version of an adult.

  • Michael AKA Leekle2ManE
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Okay, here are the requested close-ups. Until I get the ID, I'm keeping them in a communal pot with some moist, well draining soil and I'm playing "Catch Me If You Can" with the shade as that's something my yard is severely lacking.


    Edit: I just noticed you said "Where the leaves attach to the stem" not "Where the stem attaches to the trunk." So here are the actual close-ups.



    This post was edited by Leekle2ManE on Tue, Aug 27, 13 at 13:05

  • jfacendola
    10 years ago

    My vote is S. palmetto. Notoriously hard to transplant at that small of a size without getting all of the roots. I've had luck with transplanting S. minors of that size, However sometimes the spear pulls and all the leaves brown and you think it is dead for 2 years. Then after forgetting all about it, they magically push up a new frond and start to grow (after you have planted 3 other things way too close to them in the ground). Check out the link for info on the Sabal palms of Fl and learn all about how to tell them apart. I looked up S. etonia to see what they looked like (none wild here in NC)

    Here is a link that might be useful: Florida Sabal palms

  • Michael AKA Leekle2ManE
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    I've heard that about transplanting S.palmettos though I have no experience myself beyond new seedlings. But talking to a MG at my extension office, she said she has personally seen the opposite, easily transplanted young ones but struggling older ones. On the upside, most of the smaller ones have the majority of their roots intact. So I will likely plant those and put the larger ones in pots to have better control of their growing environment until I'm certain they will survive... or they perish.

  • Michael AKA Leekle2ManE
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    I keep looking at the pictures of S. palmetto fronds (even young ones) and S. etonia fronds and I still want to lean toward S. etonia. I think I will make a trip down to my UF extension office tomorrow with a few specimens and scratch their brains a bit. Thank you for your help Jfacendola. On another plus side, whether S. etonia or S. palmetto, they both have the same growing conditions, so I can plant them without fear of putting them in the wrong spot. The only difference will be the effect they have in their area in 5-6 years.

  • Michael AKA Leekle2ManE
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Well, went to my extension office and we poured over books and documents and came to the conclusion that these could be either S. etonia or S. palmetto. Then their 'palm expert' came in and he pointed out how to tell that it was definitely one of the two. Both S. etonia and S. palmetto have petioles that extend up into the frond white the petioles of other sabals tend to round out and stop at the frond. He also voiced his opinion that it was likely S. palmetto as the fronds were a bit longer than etonia's. So good job Jfacendola.

    Edit: Correction. I misunderstood him while he was explaining, but after reading the literature he gave me:
    S. minor also has the petiole extending into the frond, but it is much less pronounced than the ones in S.etonia and S. palmetto. It is Serenoa repens that has the rounded petiole at the frond base.

    The expert also told me there's a good chance that all the palms I dug up could very well live. He explained that the key will be making sure the 'nut' (were the roots form before it starts trunking) stays moist and does not dry out. Apparently Sabals will let any root that has been damaged die completely and replace it with a new one. The larger palms have more moisture in the trunk to help it survive the establishment period, but the younger ones are solely dependent on that nut. If it dries, the palm dies. He told me to remove all the fronds with the exception of the youngest/newest frond and cut that one in half, that way the nut doesn't lose too much water and energy to the fronds while it forms the new roots, but it still gets the benefits of photosynthesis.

    This post was edited by Leekle2ManE on Wed, Aug 28, 13 at 16:37

  • Michael AKA Leekle2ManE
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Just a quick update: Of the eight I transplanted, I lost two. One I lost to rot, I guess I kept that one a little too moist. The other I think I lost to drying out. The rotted one was in a pot and sitting in a shady spot and the dried one was planted in ground in a sunny spot and got watered daily, but still seemed to dry out.

    Of the six that have survived, four were planted in ground in a partial-sun location that had an older, thicker layer of mulch. The other two, the largest of the transplants, were/are in pots and resided next to the rotted one for a time. They are now sitting on the east side of my house awaiting planting. I'm having a difficult time deciding the exact spots I want to plant them.

  • Michael AKA Leekle2ManE
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Correction: I only lost one of the eight. Today, while working in the yard, I just happened to look over where the 'dried' one had been planted and noticed it is sending up a new frond. So I guess it made it.