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dahur

California Palm Question

dahur
12 years ago

HI, this is my first post here. I have a question about my California Fan Palm. I bought it last summer as skinny, little 5 gallon plant. Last winter here in Alamogordo was brutal. We had the coldest night since 1962 (-16F), with unfortunate results. Half the towns Mexican Palms were killed, amazingly every single California Palm I've seen survived. I lost 20 of my 28 Palms. One of 2 Medjools made it, as did 5 of 6 Windmills (5 gallon sized!)and this one little California Palm made it. I had every one of my Palms wrapped in blankets.

This spring I took off the blanket, and saw a bright green spear coming out! And it took right off from there. It plumped right out, threw out 3 or 4 fronds, then the growth seemed to stop in July. I was looking at it closely, and saw what appeared to be a piece of green coming out the side.

Well 4 or 5 weeks later, it still doesn't seem to be growing from the top much, but the side frond continues to expand out from the side. Could this be a result of embryonic damage from the cold we had? I was wondering if anyone has seen anything like this before. And if so, did yours survive? I had a big Mexican, and my other 12 yr old Medjool start the spring with new green spears, but mid summer they stopped, turned brown, and pulled out.

[IMG]http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy249/dahur1/IMG_7093.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy249/dahur1/IMG_7094.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy249/dahur1/IMG_7095.jpg[/IMG]

Comments (38)

  • bradleyo_gw
    12 years ago

    Interesting. Seen it on a trachy before but I have no idea what casues it. FYI, if you copy the HTML Code link from photobucket, it will show the picture right in the post.

  • dahur
    Original Author
    12 years ago

  • jimhardy
    12 years ago

    Really an amazing sight to see out of a Washy!

    Your call is exactly right,my guess is if you marked the spears on top they are finished.
    Your new meristem is exiting stage right.

    You may actually want to cut it right above the new(same as the old)
    shoot to let it out.
    There is a character in Total Recall that looked just like that.(-:


  • kaotickelly
    12 years ago

    lol omg thats weird. Im growing mexican fan palms and makes me think that i should have got california fan palms instead. because of the coldness here in NW NM wow.. sorry dont got any answers for you.

  • wetsuiter
    12 years ago

    Fascinating. If you have Washys surviving -16F, I need to try them. Granted our winters are wet compared to yours, but temps below +20F is rare here--perhaps upper teens a few nights per winter. Keep us updated on that one. And if it ever produces seeds, I'm first in line!

  • dahur
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    Well, since I love Palm Trees, I'm always looking at them.
    There are many, many California ones here, and they are all thriving beautifully. Not a one looks like it's struggling.
    We usually average around lows of 20-22F in Dec. and Jan., but occasionally it will hit high teens a couple nights a year. The fronds were all burned, but it didn't take them long to recover, and they look fantastic. The poor Mexican Palms here! I just got back from El Paso yesterday, and it's the same there. Just stumps sticking up all over, with no leaves at all--dead. Just terrible. Montana to the Airport is lined with Palms, and most are done.
    I decided when replacing mine in the summer, I would go with the apparent cold tolerance of the Washingtonia Filiferas.
    Low and behold no nursery here had any. In fact Gonzales in Las Cruces said they were sold out until next year!
    I happened to be in Home Depot and they had 5 15 gallon California Palms, and I bought them all. $68 ea., and about 6 ft tall. They've been in the ground here for 2 months are showing signs of growth, so they're acclimating.
    I did also buy 3 15 gal Mexicans, and 8 5 gallon ones. I'm hoping we don't have a repeat of last winter.
    But if you see any 15 gallon or up Californias, I wouldn't hesitate. Seems they're in demand, and short supply. At least around here. These ones came from a nursery in Texas.

  • kinzyjr {Lakeland, FL - USDA: 9b, Record: 20F}
    12 years ago

    Fascinating that they survived at all, especially the date palm. They usually take a dive in the mid to low teens. Definitely an interesting post!

  • dahur
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    I sort of experimented with the Medjool's. The one that died, I had tied up the fronds, and had a blanket around it, but the top was open. We had snow, and snow sat in the crown for a few very cold days and nights. The one that lived, I had wrapped in a blanket also, but another blanket enclosed the top. No snow got in. I suspect "maybe", that's what helped it. Both were 10 year old's when I got them, were in the ground 2 1/2 years, and were growing new fronds at about the same rate. This year I'm closing the tops off on all my palms, and making sure no snow gets in. Usually our night time snow is gone the next day, but last year was abnormally cold.

    This one's fronds were all burned, and I removed them. But it had that beautiful green spear in the middle! You can see it's come back good this summer.

  • wetsuiter
    12 years ago

    Dahur, what planting zone are you out there? I am fascinated by the pics and the temps that those palms endured.

  • dahur
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    Zone here is 8a

  • wetsuiter
    12 years ago

    I'm at the northeasterly end of 8a on the East Coast, so its a wet 8a especially in winter. Not much snow normally, but winter '10 broke all sorts of snow records.

    That palm looks like it's giving birth! LOL.

  • dahur
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    I thought I would post a few more pics.

    This one is one of my bigger Mexicans last summer.

    After last winter. This is the last one I haven't replaced yet, because it was shooting out some green spears, although deformed. In July they died, and just pulled out.
    I'm going to try and replace it with a California fan Palm next spring, (if I can find one).

    Four of my new Californian's

    This is the Medjool that didn't make it. It was browned from the previous winter, but very green in the middle.

    The nursery guys last summer finishing up installing 2 of my 3 new Canary Palms. So beautiful! Lost all 3, sigh.

    The neighbor across the street lost 4 good sized Mexicans in front.

  • wetsuiter
    12 years ago

    Dahur, thought of your resilient palm when I saw something similar in this discussion about Washintonia palms:

    http://specpalm.com/palm_pages/washibust_palm.html

    There is a photo of new Fronds emerging from a palm that was deliberately cit back to kill it. Interesting.

  • dahur
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    Update on the California palm:
    If you compare the pics from a few weeks ago, the fronds coming out the side are growing, and doing wonderful! LOL, what's up with this? There are 4 fronds coming out the side. It'll be interesting to see how it makes out this winter.

  • jimhardy
    12 years ago

    Looks like a tired baby crawling out of it's(ahem)dead mommy 0:


    (-:

  • tropicalzone7
    12 years ago

    Very interesting. I want to see how it ends up growing. Keep us updated!! I cant believe washingtonais survived -16F by you. 16F would absolutely kill every single one of them on the east coast. I guess the ones that survived by you were in a decent microclimate, not exposed to those temepratures for a long time, and had some very benifical, southwest solar radiation.
    -Alex

  • wetsuiter
    12 years ago

    Is there any growth up top? So fascinated by this palm's will to live! Keep the pics coming.

  • dahur
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    Although the older fronds are browned on the ends, the middle growth is still all green. It might be growing a little on the top, but not much. It seems to be diverting it's energy to the fronds coming out the side.

  • wetsuiter
    12 years ago

    A new horror flick for gardeners: "Rosemary's Palm Tree"

  • steve0910
    12 years ago

    It would be interesting to see if both growing points would continue to produce new fronds. If so you may have a very rare branched trunk palm tree, a deviation of natural growth.

    I would try to relieve some of the constriction at the side growth by just slicing a bit above and below the new growth. Also, maybe pour some peroxide in both growing points to ward off any fungal issues that may show up, especially in the original growing point that looks to be deteriorating.

    It will be neat to see how this turns out.

  • jimhardy
    12 years ago

    You might try marking(with a marker of course)
    the main/original growth point to see if it is moving.
    A little movement would not necessarily mean it's alive though...
    would be fascinating to find out though.

    Amazing that so many Filifera survived the(roughly/apparently)
    -16/-18F temps last winter....as Alex mentioned
    wouldn't happen out "east"/only in a dry climate.

    Of course you wouldn't see them growing anywhere out east
    where it would(possibly)get that cold,probably
    only Texas but they were no where near -20f! AMAZING!


  • dahur
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    I just discovered it's growing another new frond out the side! It's kind of hard to see, I've got an ink pen under it, but it's a new shoot coming out, and that makes five out the side so far.


    As you can see the center growth on top is still green, but not growing much that I can see.

  • wetsuiter
    12 years ago

    Love this palm!

  • jimhardy
    12 years ago

    In one of the pictures you can see the
    new spear is dead...or at least brown.

    It would be interesting when the side shoot
    takes over to off the top and see how this works!


  • dahur
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    Actually, that browned one isn't the newest one, it's off to the side. The one in the actual center is very green.

  • jimhardy
    12 years ago

    Interesting.......

    have you tried marking the center one(top growth point)to see if it is moving?

  • dahur
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    Good idea. I'll mark it today.

  • southwestmissouri
    11 years ago

    That's interesting! I have a Wahingtonia Robusta doing the exact same thing . The leaves were still green but the spear had died. I didn't give up on the palm and now it's grow all new fronds out the side. I cut the old top off this week it it seem to help give it room to grow.

  • dahur
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    The top growth including the spear looked like they died, or were about to. So I cut the top off hoping to pull the sideways fronds up straight. I was unable to get them up, so I ended up planting the palm sideways in the ground, so the fronds now point straight up..! I did this early in the spring, and it's still growing, yet slowly. The previously sideways fronds are all green.
    The novelty got old, I just couldn't deal with a palm growing sideways anymore.

  • jwitt
    11 years ago

    Dahur-neat to see your filifera and the others make it in Alamogordo. I live in Rio Rancho and hope to never see that 2/11 event again. I just saw your post, pretty cool. Got some palms up this way too that survived. Those(yours) are probably the world record for extreme low temperatures. Dry climate and solar radiation are a big help. What alot miss is the elevation, which allows water to evaporate easier. That being said, here are some in zone 6b Corrales, 150 miles north of you
    [IMG]http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p314/jmwittko/2012-06-16110019.jpg[/IMG]
    [IMG]http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p314/jmwittko/2012-06-16110047.jpg[/IMG]

  • jwitt
    11 years ago

  • wetsuiter
    11 years ago

    Any update photos of that freaky little survivor with the side shoot?

  • dahur
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Ok, I just went out and took a pic. It's growing slowly, but it still has a lot of green.

    [IMG]http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy249/dahur1/IMG_7569-1.jpg[/IMG]

  • dahur
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    In case the photobucket pic didn't come through

  • wetsuiter
    11 years ago

    So the side shoot survived and is what the picture is? I was kinda hoping bot top and side shoot survived. Regardless, it's a tribute to the tenacity of this species of palm.

  • dahur
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Update on my little California Palm.
    It's still alive, and appears to be doing great, although slow growing. No apparent effects from putting it sideways in the ground. The picture I took this morning, the plant looks pretty much as it did last summer.
    [URL=http://s796.photobucket.com/user/dahur1/media/IMG_8045_zps4c31176e.jpg.html][IMG]http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy249/dahur1/IMG_8045_zps4c31176e.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

    These four California Palms I planted 1 1/2 years ago are doing fabulous. In the last three months they have nearly replaced all their winter burned leaves. Compare to the picture above, I posted right after planting them.

    [URL=http://s796.photobucket.com/user/dahur1/media/IMG_8041_zpsd4fec437.jpg.html][IMG]http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy249/dahur1/IMG_8041_zpsd4fec437.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

  • dahur
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    The photobucket pics didn't come through.
    Try again:

  • dahur
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    The California Palms