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Chilean Wine Palm ~ Jubaea chilensis ~ cold hardiness
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Posted by karate626 7 (My Page) on Sun, Oct 18, 09 at 9:47
Hello, Is it possible to grow a Wine Palm outside in the mid-alantic region? If it could live outside, what type of protection would be needed? Thanks for any future replies!
TJ |
Follow-Up Postings:
RE: Chilean Wine Palm ~ Jubaea chilensis ~ cold hardiness
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Depends on the size of the palm,whats your plan.
Hardiness is quoted as 10-15F,this would be for a well established palm and a brief event.A few of the secrets to growing palms in colder zones is keeping moisture out of the crowns and not letting the soil become to wet in winter,(besides obviously keeping them above there cold tolerance limits)better still is to keep them dry during winter.The caveat is palms etc,need about 3 years to establish themselves so,keeping them on the dry side requires some planning,of course a lot depends on what kind of protection method you want to use and how much time/effort you want to put into it.
There are easier options as far as palms go,in your area but I would never discourage anyone from trying their fav!
What is your plan?
Where are you going to plant it/how much sun will it get/why this particular palm? |
RE: Chilean Wine Palm ~ Jubaea chilensis ~ cold hardiness
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I think it is possible, but the reason why most people probably dont try it is because they are very very expensive and very slow growers. Sometimes the seeds alone take a year to germinate and It can take up to 20 years before it gets 6-8 feet tall.
Since most of us in zone 7 expect our trunking palms to get some damage, you probably would want something faster growing. Chilean wine palms are cold tolerant to about 15 degrees one establihed and cant handle winter moisture very well. They also arent fans of very warm weather and probably would be damaged by not only our winters, but also the hot periods during the summer. I can only find them as seedlings so I dont think any mail order chilean date palm would reach the roof of a second story building for the next 50 years or mroe in our area. But if you are really experienced with protecting palms (some people on here have it down to a science) I would give it a go if you have some money you plan on spending. Mule palms (technically a hybrid of 2 common palms)might be a better rare palm for us on the east coast. They love the heat (cant get enough) and are about as cold tolerant as a Chilean wine palm (maybe even more). Some cheap palms I might be trying next year (if all goes well this year) is a chinese fan palm (livingstonia) and a mexican fan palm (washingtonia) but its too early to know for sure. |
RE: Chilean Wine Palm ~ Jubaea chilensis ~ cold hardiness
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| Jimhardy, I hadn't thought of a plant to protect it as I was just looking for cold hardy palms and cycads. I was also looking into sago palms. If I got a palm I would want a tall winter hardy one. I also Love Pinnate type palms. This is why I thougth about the wine palm. Are there any palms that fit my desired discription? |
RE: Chilean Wine Palm ~ Jubaea chilensis ~ cold hardiness
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| I would go for Jubaea for sure, they are argueably the hardiest feather palm you can grow (pretty much on a par with butia capitata IMO)and is also not that slow given alot of 'pampering'. I have grown many jubaea from seed and they seem to like being overpotted, in under 5 years from seed my largest one stands about 60cm in height and about 6 adult leaves. Yes you will need to protect in winter, but it will be well worth it. I just don't understand why they are not more readily available for you in the states? |
RE: Chilean Wine Palm ~ Jubaea chilensis ~ cold hardiness
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| How can I protect the wine palm when it gets large? Wouldn't it be difficult to do this? Wow How do you, Trachyhead pamper yours. Thats alot of fast growth in 5 years!!! |
RE: Chilean Wine Palm ~ Jubaea chilensis ~ cold hardiness
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| Butia's-Capitata(as Vic suggested)B.Eriospatha-I believe both but Eriospatha for sure would be a little more tolerant of winter moisture. |
RE: Chilean Wine Palm ~ Jubaea chilensis ~ cold hardiness
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| I think Chilean Wine palms are much faster in England than here on the east coast of the USA, whereas Butias are moderate growers here, but slow in England. Unfortunately you dont see them(wine palms) very often (if at all) on the east coast, but I think that if they are given a chance they can be very nice on the east coast. Some cold tolerant palms that are "feather leafed" are... Pindo palms aka Jelly palm
Queen palms
Mule palms
Sago palms (really a cycad, and considered a shrub, not a tree)
True date palms Pindo palms can survive down to 10F once established and can go even farther down for short durations. Chilean wine palms can handle 15F, but maybe even more once established. Mule palms are about as cold tolerant as wine palms and can handle 15 but with alot of damage and maybe once established it can tolerate around 10F. Sago palms are cold tolerant to 15F but if completely covered in mulch it cold probably go down to 5F and if given some artifical heat it can go even lower. The leaves arent very frost tolerant and can get damaged by frost, but if under a tree it wont lose its leaves till the low 20sF Queen palms and date palms can handle down to 20 and maybe even 15 once estabilshed. All these palms will need protection. Butia's are the only palm that might only require occasional wrapping when its older and has a trunk. Butias, sago palms, and queen palms are probably the easiest to find, but mule palms and chilean wine palms are much harder to come by and the only place you can get them around your area is off the internet. Good luck and remember to only plant healthy palms that have adult leaves amd to plant them in the spring when the threat for a freeze is pretty much gone and days are warming up into the 60s F. |
RE: Chilean Wine Palm ~ Jubaea chilensis ~ cold hardiness
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| tropicalzone, What makes you say butia are slow in the UK? Butia a bit faster than Jubaea here, especially eriospatha which as Jim says would be a better bet in a damp climate with wet winters. The reason butia are faster than jubaea in say US zone 6/7 is probably because you will get the summer heat which butias respond very well to, whereas jubaea do not need summer heat to do well and actually prefer cooler temps. TJ, Mule palms would be a no go in your zone unless you can get a brazilian eriospatha hybrid which is significantly hardier. Basically about 90% of all good sized mules (capitata X syagrus rom) were killed in northern europe last winter with lows of around 15f and these were 6ft specimens. Incidentally many more butias were damaged at these temps compared to jubaea. If your winters are dry you may want to consider phoenix theophrastii, i had a small (2ft) one that came through last winter with a min of 16f. It only had a sheet thrown over it on the coldest nights. My CIDP of the same size was completely fried with same treatment. The good news is the seeds are cheap and easily available, they also grow reasonably quickly if you are unable to buy one. |
RE: Chilean Wine Palm ~ Jubaea chilensis ~ cold hardiness
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Vic,I looked into P.theopharastii to try here but according to waht I read they are slow growers(?)
I think even a Takil here might be tough(if you could find one and they grow as slow as people report)because it may not recover if damaged,that's one thing I have learned with regard to what I can grow here,it has to grow fast enough to recover lost mass.Not to worry though plenty of palms to chose from!
I think a Jubaea would take some serious management of climate anywhere with wet winters,which is anywhere(roughly-excluding some areas to the south) east of the Mississippi. One palm I am trying again this year is Thrithrinax campestris.I have a nice little one with a deep root system that seems to be growing well. |
RE: Chilean Wine Palm ~ Jubaea chilensis ~ cold hardiness
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The jubaea chilensis has survived after freeze -14,7 C in the Nikita botanical garden (Jalta, Crimea, z8b).
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RE: Chilean Wine Palm ~ Jubaea chilensis ~ cold hardiness
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Trachyhead,
All of the palms you mention would not grow in zone 6. There aren't any palms at all that can be grown in zone 6 unless they are given significant protection in winter. There are mentions of needle palms (Rhapidophyllum hystrix), Sabal minor "McCurtain", Trachycarpus and a few others, that are supposedly hardy, but none of them will live in zone 6 without an elaborate winter protection plan. Even in zone 7 they are borderline and would succumb to a slightly colder than average winter. Jubaea and Butia absolutely would not grow in zone 6 or 7. Your climate is much milder than that of the east coast of the US. Zone 6 winter temps are anywhere from 0º to -10ºF, or as low as approximately -18ºC. That's not to say that we get a lot of those temperatures every year, but we certainly can. There's a lot of wishful thinking that the climate is getting milder but really it hasn't changed that much overall. Short term perhaps, but until I see palm trees lining the streets of New York or Boston, I'll be realistic. I would love to be wrong about this and I'd be the first one who would love to have a palm in my garden! But when I'm out there shoveling snow with the frigid wind biting my face, I just can't imagine it....................at least not yet! |
RE: Chilean Wine Palm ~ Jubaea chilensis ~ cold hardiness
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| Funny you mentioned shoveling snow and not being able to imagine < palms? I really love and appreciate my palms when I'm shoveling snow! I think Vic knows all to well protection would be needed(he's certainly seen enough of my winter pics(?) Karate(original poster)did ask what kind of protection would be needed.I admit I am kind of a nut for detail when it comes to my palms(61F right now(-;)but it is so rewarding to see them thriving here even in winter! Protected of course(-: |
RE: Chilean Wine Palm ~ Jubaea chilensis ~ cold hardiness
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| true that trachys aren's crazy for unprotected low zone 7. but to think they do not do well with some protection is premature. The one I know in brooklyn grew 10 feet over the past decade with lousy protection - poor much and just a plastic vented tent in a field and its survived. If it was planted by a home etc with the same non-heat protection it would thrive wildly I am sure. Their are folks on this site in z 7 and their needle palms do well against the house with no protection. so palm trees will not line nyc streets yet but a smart zone pusher can have some nice ones flourish with some minimal protection. |
RE: Chilean Wine Palm ~ Jubaea chilensis ~ cold hardiness
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| Bill, i was never suggesting that any of the palms i mentioned could be grown without significant protection, but people growing palms in zones 6/7 already know that right?. If they don't then spring could it could all be a bit dissapointing and expensive. I think alot of people are fully prepared to protect heavily to get their plants through hard winters, and there are many people on here who are really pushing the boundaries and are to be applauded (Jim would be near the top of the list ;-) Forget global warming, the new trend is global cooling at the moment :-( |
RE: Chilean Wine Palm ~ Jubaea chilensis ~ cold hardiness
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Greg, I believe I did say that they could survive zone 6..........with protection.
Jim, yours is a remarkable collection! It's just that I HATE shoveling snow!
What I was responding to in my previous reply was that Vic had mentioned relative growth rates of Jubaea vs. Butia in zone 6/7. I was merely saying that they wouldn't grow without protection in zone 7. As for these two in zone 6, I think it would be more realistic to compare their death rate.......see which one would die first.
Seriously though, I'm one who really wishes that our climate was a bit milder. Some years it's quite convincing, but every now and then reality hits. And then I remember that I live in New England! I have had success with some "zone-pushed" plants though. Just not any palms. I lost all the ones I've tried. |
RE: Chilean Wine Palm ~ Jubaea chilensis ~ cold hardiness
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| Zone 7 seems to be the northernmost limit in growing some of these guys without real winter protection (Sabals and Trachycarpus at least). I've only tried Trachycarpus fortunei so far--and I've been pleasantly surprised by their hardiness.--This'll be their 3rd winter and they are beginning to raise their trunks nicely (southern exposure/against the house).--Neighbors are beginning to notice the touch of the exotic, so maybe they'll be having company soon. |
RE: Chilean Wine Palm ~ Jubaea chilensis ~ cold hardiness
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| Give it a try. i could tell you though, that they are very slow growing. This could be a problem because if it ever becomes damaged, it may not have enough time to recover before the following winter. I planted a seedling outside in December of 2007. it is now about 2 years old and this is how it looks. 
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RE: Chilean Wine Palm ~ Jubaea chilensis ~ cold hardiness
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| Apparently they dont start growing faster until they put out a trunk which can take up to 15 years! I know that chlean wine palms are nearly imposssible to grow in floirda because of the heat and humidity, but the heat it isnt as extreme up here in the mid atlantic states as it is down there. good luck! |
RE: Chilean Wine Palm ~ Jubaea chilensis ~ cold hardiness
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| Hi again, I feel Like I'm Getting mixed replys about growing Chilean Wine Palms outdoors in the mid-alantic region. Are sago palms much hardier in my region? I would also live to grow one of those. If it helps, I'm located about 30 miles north from Washington DC. Thanks for so many replies!!! TJ |
Cycad zone 7
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| I think a sago might be a better choice. You might want to get a prince sago palm (harider to find) but faster growing and more cold tolerant than a king sago (C. revoluta). C. taitugensis (check spelling) aka prince sago palm is cold tolerant to about 10 degrees. Basically the foliage can handle down to 20 and once it all dies off you can mulch the entire trunk up to the top (at least a half a foot of mulch) and cover it all over to keep it dry. It should come back next year but its not fool-proof, think of it more as an experiment ad try to get a decent sized one to try it out on. Sago palm are trunk hardy to 15 degrees, but are easier to find so you might want to try that instead of a prince sago. Good luck Also BTW sorry if this gets posted more than once, it wasnt intended to. |
RE: Chilean Wine Palm ~ Jubaea chilensis ~ cold hardiness
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| I agree. I have done some reading on cycas. How about Dioon edule and cycas panzhihuaensis? Are they hardier than Prince sago? Ive read that panzhihuaensis is very slow growing so may not be the best choice. I haven't found much about Dioon edule though... |
RE: Chilean Wine Palm ~ Jubaea chilensis ~ cold hardiness
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| I must admit, I dont know too much about Dioon edule either, but I do know they are about as cold tolerant as a sago palm. But they arent as common so I dont know if it is worth it. It is quite a beautiful cycad though. Panzhihuaensis is another great cycad, but they seem to be very difficut to get a good sized plant and since they are very slow growing. You probably want something a bit faster. They are most likely the most cold tolerant cycad with prince sago as number 2. Good luck |
RE: Chilean Wine Palm ~ Jubaea chilensis ~ cold hardiness
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| If you do try Jubaea,you might want to get as big of one as you can find,it will grow faster* and have a better chance to recover if damaged.Have you tried any other palms? Some nice things you have going is that you can prepare the soil in advance(very important)and you have plenty of time to plan your protection |
RE: Chilean Wine Palm ~ Jubaea chilensis ~ cold hardiness
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| Jimhardy, I have never grown any palms besides my parlor palm which is a houseplant. Could I protect a Wine Palm the same way a you would protect a sago palm? It's to bad that the sago palm is the only cycad sold at a reasonable price widely. Does anyone know website that sells mature Prince sagos' at a good price? |
RE: Chilean Wine Palm ~ Jubaea chilensis ~ cold hardiness
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I would check around on the web.
Most of what I have bought is off e-bay,you will find smaller stuff through e-bay,only as big as they can ship. I think you would need to cover IT AND START KEEPING IT DRY EARLIER THAN WINTER.
There is kind of a feel you get as far as growing stuff goes,esp out of more native conditions.Most people would probably disagree but you could try this-
Since you don't have a lot of experience,YET(-; why not buy a Needle are Trachy with some nice fan leaves,plant it out(while you are waiting for it you can search through all the old post's on various protection methods/and the web) and put something together to protect it.This way you can get some experience which is priceless.
I planted my first 2 Trachys on Nov 1,(better to plant in spring but this way you'll get some experience) a few years ago and they both made it through the winter and are doing great- along with about 50 other palms/cactus-It really is a fun and rewarding hobby :)-Good luck |
RE: Chilean Wine Palm ~ Jubaea chilensis ~ cold hardiness
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| "The jubaea chilensis has survived after freeze -14,7 C in the Nikita botanical garden (Jalta, Crimea, z8b)." This temp equates to a zone 8a region. Temps of this extreme would have to rebound dramaticly at daybreak or Jubaea would not suvive.
In the PNW, these are 9a palms persisting in 8b but with routine damage in cold winters (crown protection recommended). Repetative cold spells are lethal. |
RE: Chilean Wine Palm ~ Jubaea chilensis ~ cold hardiness
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| Not really. It is a zone 8 plant. |
Here is a link that might be useful: Article
RE: Chilean Wine Palm ~ Jubaea chilensis ~ cold hardiness
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| Well pindos have been suriving here with protection in coastal zone 7 - NYC! |
RE: Chilean Wine Palm ~ Jubaea chilensis ~ cold hardiness
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| In a below average winter here in the Northern Virginia/DC area we have had unprotected Needle Palms, Sabal minor and Trachycarpus fortunei survive multiple sub zero F cold events in colder than average winter ONCE ESTABLISHED. This is proven and there are lots of survivors to point to, some being very close to my home. |
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