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Hey Jim,
do you mean post in other forums? I thought about asking in the Ohio Valley section but I figured this would be the best place. I'll ask there, thanks. I'm cuja1 from Palms North by the way.

Maybe just include your whole zone-I didn't have palms in then-
but I remember it getting cold first week on November and staying that way until late Feb/early March.

Seemed like the wind was always blowing out of the North/Northwest!

The reason I was asking, is because I was reading in "Palms won't grow here and other myths" that he believes an established needle palm will survive with leaf burn in zone 5 most years if it is in a good location. He said this was based on what he and others had seen.

Since Cincinatti experienced a somewhat typical zone 5b winter that year (though not reaching zone 5b lows), I figured some would make it through. I couldn't tell by the book if any actually survived unprotected.

I don't mind doing the leaf cage method, but it be great if I could leave it alone after 3 years. It's a long shot but I thought I'd check.

Jim, I guess I still didn't know what you meant until after the last post. Maybe a better question would be how long can a needle palm survive subfreezing temperatures.

A leaf cage? do you mean filled with leaves? i think that will lower your zone. Palms like to be free of debris. If you have damp leaves freezing on palm fronds the palm is more likely to be damaged. I found that out accidentally one year.

A leaf cage need to be off the leaves to work.

I wrapped my needle in burlap and then stuffed leaves
in and packed them down,I also put a rose cover over it to keep
the leaves around it from getting wet.

I survived -18F that way,the leaf formed a frozen barrier
to keep the cold out...just wish I gad a thermometer in there to see how cold it really got.

Still have the palm too.

Here,a pic from November 2008

Still there,in the closest corner...

So were the leaves actually touching the palm fronds or was burlap between them?

I was going to throw a sheet of plastic over the leaf cage. It is also under an over hang. The leaves used as insulation should't touch the needle palm leaves?

I'm still interested why Francko says that a needle palm should survive a zone 5. I wander if he was just guessing, I've never heard of any success stories of needle palms in zone 5 without protection. The book was written around 2002 I think, so maybe they just hadn't done enough tests.

Burlap between the fronds.....btw,the leaves were frozen when I uncovered it!

I think he's right(Francko) but they need to establish...sometimes they get nuked before they do though.

I think what he is getting at is that if well sited,it could survive....
he's probably referring to a courtyard or corner where brick walls come together....maybe even in a friendlier z5.

I think I might try it in 3 years if I'm brave. Especially if it gets big. It's in a real good microclimate, the same place my crepe myrtle dynamite proved root hardy.

So do I need to pull the fronds up around the crown and then wrap all the leaves in burlap? I was just planning on wrapping the trunk and stuffing leaves around everything else.

here's mine for fun:

You know,you could probably use a trash can over it.

If it gets to cold put in some old c-7 or c-9 x-mas lights.

Do put a remote sensor in there(next to the spear) to make sure there is enough warmth.

If the can doesn't provide enough insulation,you could throw a comforter or the like over it.

Your talking about once it gets established right? Or do you mean this winter?

This winter-

that said,I had a bunch of little palms pull from us finally getting rain(5"+)and then after a high of 86F we
settle into repeated nights of lows around 27F.

Sometimes it is the abrupt change that catches the tender growth more than it is the absolute low-
this would not have occurred once plants are hardened off in late winter/early spring!

spring patch there is a needle and a trechy in mt adams that has been out for somthing like 10 years the lady told me and she says they don't do anything to it so assume it survived that winter. I cover mine with a trash can and let it go. when its really sunny I'll take it off and let it get a bit of light and put the can back on at night. its in a corner type area so alot of leaves get blown up against the can so that helps im sure. where did you pick up that needle palm at. I don't see them for sale much around here anymore.

Mike,

back in the spring of 2010 I saw them at 2 different Wal-marts and 1 nursery here in Springfield, IL. But I haven't seen anymore since. Apparently they didn't sell well. They were in the blue pots too. I wish I would have picked up more.

What state is Mt. Adams in?

its in Cincinnati OH, a small suburb there but its on top of a large hill very nice/expencive homes with quality landscapeing

I've been to Cincinatti probably 4 times. It's a nice city. Much hillier than the majority of the Midwest.