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arctictropical

Pics of palm protection boxes for zone 4

arctictropical
12 years ago

Here's a few pics of how I protect my palms in zone 4. I've used some boxes for over 20 years now. The first pic shows the base of railroad ties I must place around the trunk before putting the box over the Trachy. The box is over 8' tall. I add two layers of railroad ties every year in order to fit the box over the palm. What's inside? Nothing but 3 screw in florescent light bulbs at the top of each box. I had -40 degrees one winter. How do I place the boxes over the palm? A tractor/loader. I just barely put the box over the Trachy last Thursday, November 16. It snowed 6 inches on Friday. This morning in was 5 degrees outside.

Here's another box that's over my Washingtonia. It stands about 7'-8' tall.

Comments (34)

  • wheelman1976
    12 years ago

    holy cow that is awesome.... i'll be there some day! LOL

  • arctictropical
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    Hey Wheelman1976, what state and climate zone are you in?

  • mnpalms
    12 years ago

    Man is that trachy getting big! It seems you get at least a foot per year of growth. I remember last year you were starting to worry about how you were going to be able to keep covering it in the future. Glad to see you get it done ok this year.

    Keep it up man, your trachy was the inspiration that got me growing them here in MN.

  • jimhardy
    12 years ago

    Very nice Kevin

    They really are getting big!



    Click for weather forecast

  • nucci60
    12 years ago

    Your palms are always amazing and a big inspiration to others. I remember that you keep a light going all winter. Is the framing 2x4 and can the roof take a snow load?

  • arctictropical
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    Hi Mnpalms. You are exactly right. The Trachy grows as least a foot per year. My Washingtonia is growing even faster than that. I think this is the last year I will protect the tall Trachy with this box method. It's just too big. I might try bubble wrap and a heating cable next Winter. If it dies, oh well. I'll just start over with some Waggies that won't grow so fast. I'm going to plant a Blue Mexican Fan Palm outside next year, and a Pindo Palm (again) the year after. Thanks, Jim and nucci60. The framing is only 1 x 3 and 1x1, in order to keep the boxes light, except for the very bottom. The boxes are really quite sturdy, and will hold plenty of snow load.

  • wetsuiter
    12 years ago

    Could you donate them to an arboretum somewhere? It would be a shame for them to die after all that TLC.

  • arctictropical
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    Wetsuiter, I'm going to try the bubble wrap and heating cables next year. I hope it works. I wonder if anyone has ever tried heating cables?

  • jimhardy
    12 years ago

    Maybe look into buying a Thermocube that turns on the power(heat)at 35F off at 45F.
    As long as you can see it's working you know your palm is
    going to stay in that zone and you don't have to worry about overheating....
    from the lights/heat anyway.


    Click for weather forecast

  • wheelman1976
    12 years ago

    Just realized you asked what zone I'm in. I'm in West Michigan about 20 minutes from the lake. So I'm a zone 6a (maybe b?). I've got a couple two foot truck windmills going through their first winter with me and as long as I don't kill them I'll be getting some bigger ones in the spring to finish off my landscaping.

  • Loveplants2 8b Virginia Beach, Virginia
    12 years ago

    Hi Kevin,

    Love seeing your set up for the winter!!!

    Those Palms have it made and it certainly shows how much care you give to them.

    I have used the heating cables on all of my palms when they were young and not established. They were used for the first three years and i also used burlap around the hearts and then plugged in the cables when the temps reached around 25* for at least three cons. days. Then once the temps were above 40* i would unplug them. But i am not in a Zone 4 like you so you might need extra protection then just cables. I realized the palms are getting so large it is going to be hard to keep protecting them. I like the idea of donating them, it is hard to keep that kind of protection up when they get so tall. Isnt it wonderful to even think that we are talking about them being to tall?

    What a great feeling it must be to have those huge beauties growing so tall and strong for you!!!

    Your wife must be a wonderful person.. : ) Coming from one who knows that we have to have understanding spouses...

    What would we do? Esp when we have other addictions too! LOL...

    Those pics of your Plumies with the T-5 setup look wonderful!!

    BRAVO!!!!

    Have a great Thanksgiving!!!

    Laura in VB

  • wheelman1976
    12 years ago

    outside of the frame construction, what are you doing for insulation inside the box? Or is that just some heavy gauge plastic around the frame?

  • arctictropical
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    Good luck wheelman! The insulation in these boxes comes from the actual sides of the boxes. They are made from 2" Blueboard Styrofoam panels. They work great! I staple clear heavy gauge plastic around the boxes to keep them somewhat dry. Laura, you are always so kind. Sounds like you have as many plant addictions as I! I guess if you are going to be addicted to something, it might as well be plants.

  • wetsuiter
    12 years ago

    Laura is like the homeroom mother on this Forum.

  • Loveplants2 8b Virginia Beach, Virginia
    12 years ago

    LOL...

    V, you are to funny!!! Happy Thanksgiving!!!

    Take care everyone...

    Enjoy the day and what it stands for...

    HAPPY THANKSGIVING!!!!

    Laura in VB

  • mnpalms
    12 years ago

    Kevin-

    If you are thinking about bubble wrap for next winter I would suggest using the silver stuff that is available at home improvement stores. It comes in 4'x25' rolls and is only about 3/8" thick. It is silver because it is mylar coated on both sides. The stuff works excellent. It is super easy to work with and can be sealed and secured with a good quality duct tape. Best of all it can be reused year after year.

    My hybrid semi-rigid enclosure uses the same stuff and it has worked perfectly the last few winters. It can withstand surprisingly high winds too. Frame made from 2x2s sunk into the ground a bit, light plywood roof, a few 1x3 crossmembers for extra support, one 4' wide wrap of chicken wire for a little more rigidity, old bed comforters covering all sides, then the silver bubble wrap insulation covering the outside. Then I throw an old boat cover (tarp) over the top and tie it tight around the outside walls. One string of c-9 Xmas lights and one CFL bulb fixture plugged into a Thermocube. This setup can keep it more than 50f warmer inside than outside temps as needed. And it is CHEAP on electricity! I learned I don't need the second string of Xmas lights anymore so now I'm down to just the one. 237.5 watts of power is used only as deemed necessary by the Thermocube. And my enclosure is not exactly small, it houses my 7.5' trachy, a 5.5 footer, and a 5.5' yucca thompsoniana. It's about 35 square feet of space (triangular) and 8 feet tall.

  • wheelman1976
    12 years ago

    post pics mnpalms!

  • mnpalms
    12 years ago

    Here you go Wheelman:

    Summer 2011

    Early spring 2011

    These pics are from last year, I didn't take any this year as I was setting up the enclosure. It's the same this year though. I have the enclosure up now but the opening (door) is not sealed in yet and power is not yet connected since it has been so warm. I figure I won't have to plug it in for another week or two based on the long term forecast. It's still 50f outside right now! (11/26/11 at 5:55AM)

    November 2010

  • Loveplants2 8b Virginia Beach, Virginia
    12 years ago

    Thanks for the pics mnpalms!!!

    Great job protecting those beauties. Where do you live?

    Thanks again!!

    Laura in VB

  • wheelman1976
    12 years ago

    It looks like you're hanging the lights around the palms rather than direct contact with them?

  • mnpalms
    12 years ago

    Laura-

    I'm in the Twin Cities area (Minneapolis/St. Paul). My zone is pretty much a solid 5a. I'm just southeast of Minneapolis in Burnsville, which is just southwest of downtown St. Paul. I get the benefit of the urban heat island effect while not having to actually live in the big city, rather a more quiet suburb. Most of our winter weather and wind comes from the northwest so it passes over the heat of the big city area first. At least that's my theory as to why it has not exceeded -20f here at least since we have been in this house (15 years). In the northern and western suburbs it is a whole different story though. Even 20 miles south of me it gets colder out away from civilization. I keep very close track of our daily temps with a number of wireless weather stations.

    Wheelman-

    You are correct. No bulbs come in contact with any part of my palms. The enclosure is well sealed and they really just heat the air and keep the ground from freezing inside. I kind of zig-zag the Xmas lights around the inside of the enclosure while making sure they are not touching the palms, walls, or ground inside. The CFL fixture shines down at an angle from above. I'm still waiting for it to get cold enough to plug it in, because once I do it will keep it above 35f in there at all times (Thermocube). I like to harden them off a bit first and have them see lower temps. As long as it is still climbing above freezing each day there is no reason to heat these yet even if the lows are dipping into the 20s at night. Looking at the long range forecast, it looks like I'll plug it in next week sometime. First week of December shows some highs not making it above freezing and our first lows in the teens of the season.

    I think Kevin's protection method proves a very valid point, you don't need that much heat if your enclosure is well insulated. He is in a colder zone than I and heats with only a few CFL bulbs!

  • jimhardy
    12 years ago

    "I think Kevin's protection method proves a very valid point, you don't need that much heat if your enclosure is well insulated. He is in a colder zone than I and heats with only a few CFL bulbs! "


    Ain't that the truth,I only have so many watts I can pull from
    on this house,my goal every winter is to not use
    more heating/watts and possibly less by using more insulation.


    Click for weather forecast

  • chicago_palm
    12 years ago

    I have been using Kevin's method. A single 23 CFL works great for each of my boxes. The key is the insulation and thick plastic to make the structure air tight. The boxes hold the heat well and don't heat up too much during those mild breaks in the weather.

  • californiamike
    12 years ago

    Very nice covers. I was wondering, do the christmas lights really work? and Shouldnt you use a clear covering to give the fronds light. I have a homemade greenhouse that I built around mine and use clear hard plastic around the frame to let in light. I have been afraid to use anything dark. I once killed a palm by covering it up with burlap and clear pastic, it got snow and ice in there and rotted. So far my greenhouse has worked...just too bad, mine is already on, it was 72 here in NYC today.

  • coconutmike
    12 years ago

    Hey Arctic Tropical . Your palms and the protection look great as usual. I have been doing the boxes over my palms for years and I also did a few new experiments with heat cabes-tents and bubble wrap similar to what someone else mentioned earlier except it is white on the outside and silver on the inside. I had these new tents made special and csa approved See my videos on youtube should be out next week. If it works for me it should definitely work for you because your location is just a touch colder than Montreal. I'll give you a shout in the spring
    cheers

  • mnpalms
    12 years ago

    "Very nice covers. I was wondering, do the christmas lights really work? and Shouldnt you use a clear covering to give the fronds light. I have a homemade greenhouse that I built around mine and use clear hard plastic around the frame to let in light. I have been afraid to use anything dark. I once killed a palm by covering it up with burlap and clear pastic, it got snow and ice in there and rotted. So far my greenhouse has worked...just too bad, mine is already on, it was 72 here in NYC today."

    Yes the Xmas lights work great. I use the clear ones rather than colored, and I also include one CFL bulb. They get enough light from these to remain comfortable. They don't mind the full sun once uncovered like some other plants do (they don't get sunburn). Growth surely slows to a crawl over the winter but that is just fine. They pick right up once the sun is beating on them again and they are getting regular water in the spring.

  • jimhardy
    12 years ago

    These kind of palms can sit for months in low temp/light conditions and as mentioned,pick right back up in spring.

  • coconutmike
    12 years ago

    Hey Kevin I've been using these boxes for going on 9 years but I have been working on this tent method because the boxes take too much room if it works for me I will e-mail you in the spring or you can e-mail me you have my e-mail . Just don't want to see you spoil the palm
    cheers
    CoconutMike
    http://s1082.photobucket.com/albums/j361/Coconutmike/palm%20protection/

    Here is a link that might be useful: palm tree protection

  • arctictropical
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    Hey, Mike. Thanks for your tent method information and video. Who made the tents? What are they made of? Are these tents placed over bubble wrap?

  • coconutmike
    12 years ago

    Hey Kevin the tents are made with an umbrella- like Aluminum structure at the top made by a welder. The material on the side is a heavy duty bubble wrap white on outside and silver on the inside and the top is a heavy duty anti-tear plastic. It is clear and to protect the palm from the burning UV rays I sprayed some snow in the can on the top making it white but still allowing the light to penetrate. These 2 products were made by a tarp company. Finally the heat cable system is 2 separate heat cables 20 ft long heavy duty attached to a thermostat and set for 5C. Made by an electric company and CSA approved . I also made a tent using over an 8 ft windmill using only the bubble wrap and 2 23 w flourescent bulbs on the top. If this work may be even more energy efficient. I will keep you posted or you can contact me early april.
    cheers
    mike

  • arctictropical
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    Wow, Mike. You're getting fancy with your palm protection methods! I think I'll just do the bubble wrap, heat cables and a tarp over the fronds, and hope for the best.

  • coconutmike
    12 years ago

    Hey Kevin -the bubble wrap with 2 lights on top mught even been easier because fronds tend to dry out with the heat cable. When it snow you have to constantly throw the snow at the base to irrigate the palm because at 5C the palm is still alive
    I'll let you know what works best
    mike

  • brooklyngreg
    12 years ago

    Hi Artic,

    You have it down to a science! I see a foam between railroad ties. Do you receive snow in November regularly?

    I find placing the lights a little closer to the bud makes a big difference on how the palm recovers in the Spring. I had the bulb too far in the plastic covered box from the plant because my pindo got stuck in the Spring and the cold somehow stifled it. With a cut down to the bud and little TLC the butia recovered. I repotted it and placed it in a greenhouse for the winter and gave my butia yatay a chance to live thru the winter. Hope its not a bad one. I am in zone 7A.

  • arctictropical
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    Hi Greg. We can get snow anytime from September through May. Yes, we always get snow in November. However, it shut off and we are now in a snow drought. Not good for snow boarding! I've got a butia capitata inside that I will probably plant outside in a couple of years. Next summer I'm planting my Mexican Blue Fan palm outside. I wish we had zone 7A temperatures! Good luck with your palms.

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