Washingtonita robusta is Mexican Fan Palm, Washingtonia filifera is California Fan Palm. When seedlings, they are very hard to tell apart. As they age, the robusta grows faster and has darker green leaves and, in general, a bit less 'cotton' fiber coming off the leaves. Petioles on robusta have a lot of red-brown color while filifera petioles are completely green.

Older palms are very easy to tell apart (except so many hybrids exist muddying the differnces)- filiferas have thick, straight trunks and tend to lose their peticoats sooner (unless getting a lot of ground water inland). They also tend to look unhappy near the coast and dead in areas of high humidity. W robustas have no problem with high humidity, though they don't tend to look quite as happy or grow quite as tall in such climates. W filifera is more cold hardy (supposedly down into the low teens) while robusta leaves will start frying around 20F. The crowns of filifera are, in general, more open and have less leaves, though the leaves are larger. W robusta crowns are densely packed with leaves but have an overall smaller crown.

HEre in inland So Cal it got down to 33F last night... but surprisingly no frost. Must have been a bit of wind.

well now i know i shouldnt ever trust a plant label from walmart. i guess il have to wait and see what it is when it grows a bit more.

Well the warm weather is finally gone for the season I think. We had another heavy frost several nights ago and it got down to 27F However the past couple days its been very warm 60-65. The low last night was 59, and it was 65 this morning at 9am with south 40-50 mph winds and driving rains. Calmed down for about 30 mins, then bam! heavy blinding rains and 50-60 MPH winds out of the NW, and it dropped from about 60-45 in the span of about 30 minutes. Its currently 41. Over the next 6 days the highs are going to be low 40s, with over night lows in the mid to upper 20s. I think this is the real turning point in the season. Were supposed to have snow showers here on Thursday evening / night as well. Fun huh?

We also got some very heavy rain showers here today. There was about 15-20 minutes of pouring rain and very strong wind that really stood out among the rest. After that was over the rain slowly stopped and in an hour it was very clear and much colder and calmer. Looks like low to mid 40s for high temps here also and nights around freezing and some only in the upper 20s!! I hate winter so much and I cant wait to take the plants back outside in the spring!

Heading down to 40 tonight here...

Got down to 33F here in So Cal... brrrr.

Been in the upper 30's to around 40 all day. Same story for the next week or so with temps trending COLDER. Low last night 27F. About the same tonight, and lower middle to upper 20s for the next week. Snow showers on Sat, unless this Alberta Clipper tracks 50-100 miles to the north, then DC will be looking at significant accumulating snow. As it stands now, it looks like the accumulating stuff will be from Fredericksbug, VA, south to the Carolinas with more snow the farther south you go. Bottom line its going to be COLD and WINDY the next several days here and the trend seems to be for more cold, for an extended period of time, with the possibility of more storms shunting southward. The Greenland block (strong, semi permanent high pressure over Greenland) is very strong this year, and that is seeming to help offset the La Nina. This is pushing the cold arctic air much farther south and east, and setting up a very deep trough in the sub polar jet stream in the east. Hence why the deep south is even seeing some of this chill. In spite of climatic differences from the very bad winter / blizzards of last winter, this winter is beginning to look like it might shape up similar to last. Last year we had our first blizzard on Dec 19th. Nov was very similar to this year, then Dec marked a sharp drop off in temps, just like were seeing here this year. So I guess well see. I dont think its going to be as BAD of a winter, at least HERE where I am, but I think we are still going to see a fair amount of snow, and probably some ice storms this winter as well. We did not have any icing events last winter, it was almost all snow every time.

Im not a huge fan of winter, and in fact I almost hated it many winters. That said, being a fan and grower of some conifers does help make winter not so bad.

Dropped to 34F last night, supposed to get to 33F tonight, inching closer to that freezing mark. =(

No snow in the 15-day forecast, only rain on two days. Mainly 40's for highs and 30's for lows.

I hate Winter but I can't complain, most of the country is colder and snowier, we haven't even had a frost yet and some trees still have green leaves. I need to move to a warmer climate though lol.

cfa li, there are still trees with completely green leaves!? Thats very interesting. There are some trees here that are holding on to some leaves, but most of the trees are bare or almost bare. The overall color is brown even though lawns are still as green as summer and their are some annuals still in bloom despite 2 light freezes. Whats the lowest temp in your forecast? I think its about 26F here.

Good luck!
-Alex

Well not completely green but mostly green, some are actually trees planted last year (that million trees thing). I've never seen this before. Most trees are mostly bare, not completely as a lot still have brown leaves still holding on. The grass is very green here too.

The lowest temp in the 7-day forecast for here is 29 degrees, on the 8th.

The leaves are still on many trees here, and it did freeze here. One thing I noticed is that trees in my area are holding on to their leaves longer and coming out of dormancy sooner. Its almost as if winter is getting shorter and warmer.

Cfa li. Thanks for the info. Looks like they lowered the temps more on the forecast!! Jfk is now going down to 26F on one night and my area I think is going down to 24F or 25F, or at least thats what they are saying right now. People are predicting that the worst of winter on the east coast might be in December so if thats true, Im very happy! However if its only going to get worse from here, we will be having a VERY long winter and so will most of the country. I might have to protect the palms soon! Temps below average here, but it could be worse.

Us marine, winters definitely seem to be getting shorter. I definitely dont mind and I think the plants are happy too! Less time they have to spend indoors!

Good luck everyone!!
-Alex

Well... Just recorded my lowest ever temperature, and probably lowest for 23 years tonight. We dipped to -9.5c or 14f!! Twinned with 14 inches of snow it looks bad. Also noticed the protection on the trachycarpus martianus has come off :-( oh well, it had a good few years and i was kidding myself i could grow it anyway

Maybe I should move up north, we've already had 3 freezes here in northeast FL with temps in the very low 30s. This week we are suppose to be in the 20's for 4 nights straight with our lowest forecasted temp to be 23! Unusually cold for early December.

@ theseventhlegend- Sorry to hear that. Its surprizing Northern Florida is going to get so cold. I live in Northern California, we have had 5 frost days so far, with the coldest being 29f. The rest were above 30f.

So far I still have a few cananas, and bananas that survived these frost almost undamaged. They have maybe 1-2% damage if anything near the tips.
I covered my coconut palm, surprizingly it worked. My coconut palm isn't damaged at all from cold. Time is ticking though. Maybe a colder freeze might end that, or as usual, the cool temps. I even have roses still blooming. Odd freeze, came early and now the forecast reports nothing below the 40fs at night with mid/high 50fs and a few low 60f days.
Lets hope winter doesnt get worse. Good luck everyone!
-US_Marine

Heard about that North Atlantic Oscillation and its implications for our winter. Supposedly, for Europle the jet stream carries the big storms further south so that southern Europe (Spain, Italy, Greece, etc.) have a very WET and stormy winter and northern Britain (along with the rest of Norther Europe is bitter cold)--which they've seen already but with the snow too! For Greenland, it means another well above normal winter (more melting glaciers). On the East coast it's interesting. Bitter cold, arctic air seems to penetrate VERY far south (subtropical Florida), but if it's again like last winter, it may be stormy but normally cold in the Northeast (including locally here in NJ). Last winter was just weird. There was record cold in the South, but record warmth in arctic and subarctic Canada. Here in NJ, we were sort of in the middle and only saw a winter minimum of 14.0 F (not too bad and nothing local 6b-7a gardens are not acclimated to endure). But it was very, very stormy and wet winter as well with vigorous nor'esters (some of hurricane strength!)
Time will tell.

Yeah its very intersting. I hope that it doesnt mean another cool summer for the west. I would like to pass up on a cold winter too, we had record cold last year and this year frost came early.

We pulled through last night too, 33F at JFK, 35F at LGA, & 32F at EWR (Newark). Tonight is definitely it though, we have a low of 29F although after what has been happening the past few nights I wouldn't rule out having a low of 32F lol. It's amazing that we made it to December 5th without going below freezing while parts of the South has went below freezing numerous times.

This upcoming weather is the weather I absolutely hate, I want to move so badly. I have a very high heat tolerance and a very low cold tolerance. If I were a Palm tree I'd probably be a Washingtonia Filifera or something slightly more hardy than a Coconut Palm lol.

I'm really hoping for a mild Winter, as of now I don't know how it could turn out. Some are saying mild with little snow and some are calling for a repeat of last year.

Dont feel too bad about a freezing temp coming because Orlando Florida is suppose to go down to 30F later this week! I find it so weird that New York City had its first freeze only 3 or 4 days before Orlando Florida most likely will have their first freeze! Right now they seem to be predicting a cold December and a thaw in January! I hate this weather also, but I would rather get it over with now!

NJoasis, dont count your chickens...

Last winter was almost identical to this winter to date here in the DC area and look what we ended up with last winter. 76" of snow! Snowiest major city in the USA. Its been far colder than normal for the past 2 weeks here, and the first storm just shunted south of us. Slightly more to the north and we would have been looking at another fist significant snow here. Last year it was dec 19 we had our first "blizzard". Its only dec 5 now. We still have a long way to go. I'm not convinced our winter here will be as "mild" as they think its going to be personally. I guess well see. Seen snow flurries here twice already and its COLD here. High here at my house today was 38. Lows have been in mid 20s the past week. I guess well see!!

I didn't say i was expecting a 'mild' or snowless winter. The thing you have to keep in mind about last winter is how truly lopsided it was. The major snows and arctic cold pushed much further south than normal but New England and Canada saw a relatively mild winter with much below normal snowfall. A few of the storms that buried you--especially early seaon, left us snowfree. But then came February and although it was VERY snowy, the winter was not unusually cold (relative to historical climatology). The thing that made last season so unusual locally was not the cold (that was normal), it was the intensity and frequency of coastal storms. Mid March featured the worst wind storm I EVER remember and I've lived in the area for a few decades now. We had near hurricane force winds for many hours with torrential rain. The rain was coming into the house through the WALLS--I've never seen this before but imagine it's not uncommon in hurricanes. Sitting in the dark, I thought I would loose the roof off the house! In the aftermath, large trees were down all over the place and there was no power for days. Not a 'mild' winter by any stretch of the imagination!

Hahaha! Been there done that. Imagine being in a place thats 14 floors up, facing ESE during a hurricane. Not only were the huge sliding glass doors bowing in so much that wind was coming IN, the entire building was shaking so much that water was sloshing out of the toilet! That was hurricane Isabel here back in Sept, 2003.It was still a cat 1 when it hit here.

Oh I dont think the winter is going to be colder than normal. Last winter, we were about average here. What was above average was the precip. One of the big similarities so far this year, to last (other than it being very cold once December hit) is the huge blocking high pressure over greenland. So FAR (at least the past couple weeks or so) it has been very much below normal even as far south in florida. Tampa just a day or so ago saw a high temp of 59, and was in the low 40s/ upper 30s at night. Thats VERY COLD for that far south. I was only pointing out that this year, to date, is shaping up alot like last year. Its almost identical in how things have gone the past few weeks in terms of temps, and now this first significant storm pushing south of us. Its also been fairly windy here too. That last storm was not only a major rain producer, but a huge wind maker as well. Of course nothing is quite like the blizzards of last year, especially those that came in Jan/ Feb. Those not only produced FEET of snow here, but whiteout conditions with 45-55MPH winds during the storms as well. Last winter was the first time since 96 where I had to use the ski goggles just to go outside for any length of time here due to the snow buffeting your face like a sand blaster. I think on a whole, last winter was one of the windiest winters I remember here in a very very long time. Even with no storms, i remember the cold winds here roaring through the trees so loud you could not escape that noise, and like you, trees were coming down all over.

Just seems to me, at least so far, that this winter is very much like last winter to date. The only difference was last year there was El Nino, this year there is La Nina. That is (was) supposed to make for a milder winter for our area. Until two weeks ago that was holding true. Now it just keeps getting colder and colder and colder with next week forecast to have highs in the 30s every day. We should still be hitting about 50 this time of year here.

I guess well see huh? One forecaster here did mention just on friday that he was looking ahead a couple weeks and saw the potential for a big snow here in DC. I guess if that ends up happening then well we will be right on track as that would put us right around Dec 19 once again.

I vividly remember that Mid-March storm, we were at the Garden State Plaza at the time, right after we left the mall (about 10-15 minutes) it lost all power. Something hit our car but did no damage but it made a loud noise, then we see trees start falling onto the highway and police cars going crazy. Finally made it to the George Washington Bridge (which my phone said was closed) then they closed it literally right after we passed the toll booth (the light changed from green to red) so we were one of the last people to get on. This was the scariest thing I've ever experienced, the wind was lifting the front of our car off of the ground which is very scary when you're 100 feet above the super choppy Hudson River at nighttime and all I was seeing was the dark rough waters. Finally made it off of that and then the when we were on the Westside Highway the water was at the same level as the highway and was almost coming over the side, that park next to the highway must've been flooded. Then we get more inland in Manhattan and people are flying down the street. When we got home and got out the car and had a tough time just walking. The next day hundreds of trees were just everywhere. This was the most intense storm I've ever been in and I've been on the East Side of Hurricane Dennis when it was a Cat 3 or 4. Plus those crazy storms this Summer with those microbursts and tornadoes.

Oh and we were supposed to drop to the 20's last night but 32F was our (JFK's) low. I don't know how that happened, that threw me off lol. Maybe tonight it'll happen or if it doesn't then definitely the night after.

I also remember the mid march storm and it was definitely the worst wind I have seen here. People had siding ripped off their homes, power lines were down or slanted, and trees were down. Their was one road where every power line was down for a few blocks (and large tree branches down with it). Ive never seen such a large and long lasting power outage here before!

This wind will just not stop! Another day of gusts over 40MPH, and its supposed to continue right through Wednesday. High today was 37. Low tonight of 25, High tomorrow of 34, low of 22, and high on Wednesday of 33, low of 19, Thursday high 36, low of 24. After that things are going to moderate a bit going back to the low 40s/ upper 20s for Friday, then mid to upper 40s and low 30s for the weekend. If it gets up near 50 where it should be during the day its going to feel like spring after this last week for sure.

Mid 30's by day and mid 20's by night. Supposed to rise to 50 on Sunday. As cold as it is, it's currently 36 in NYC and 35 in Jacksonville, Fl. Temps in Florida are dropping to record levels again tonight--20's and 30's (would't be surprised to see some teens in the northern part of the state)--That just ain't right! Got the last of the containerized palms into shelter for the season (P. canariensis, Washingtonias and Queens)--all without a hernia. Still haven't picked up all the leaves from autumn--just piled them around the the planted Trachys and Butia. The real cold came in very suddenly but at least it is very dry so far and not that windy.--Don't mind snow so much but ice is evil.

When the west got our early cold front we also got cold, but I do have to say 29f is not a bad low especially this far north. It is amazing how cold Florida is going to get. We got lucky, and while the east is very cold, we are above average. This time last year we had record breaking cold. I do hope after this storm we all have a very mild winter.

Good luck everyone!
- US_Marine

I don't know about teens but we are suppose to break the record low of 28 tonight by 6 degrees and hit 22! What the heck?

26F tonight and then 23F tomorrow night! That isnt as cold as parts of the south, but its still definitely below average for this time of the year. The daytime temps are probably the worst part about this colder weather with daytime temps only in the 30s for a majority of the days. There is even one day forecasted to stay below 29F!!! That is considered a very cold day for January and its only December. Fortunately no teens in the forecast but one night will be at 20F. Hopefully this will be some of the coldest air of the year because if January is worse than this, then this can be a record cold winter! Fortunately they still continue to forecast a thaw in a few weeks.

Good luck!
-Alex

Looks like the forecast is going down in temperature more! 15F at night for here later on this week. Areas in the south will be even colder and if the forecast is right, many parts of Florida (such as Orlando and Miami) will be breaking all time record lows (according to weather.com) Miami is forecasted to go down to 34F and Orlando down to 20F!!!

Coldest here so far is 28F.

It's been very cold in Columbus. The lows have been in the teens with windchills around 0.

Interesting, we are going to be above average for a while, and highs are getting close to records. Being strange as that is, I seen Southern Florida with highs much like SoCal. Very odd.

Going down to 12-18F here tonight. BBBBrrrrrRRRRRRrrrrr Nuff said.

For those of you out west, you can partially thank the greenland block for your warmth. It's the same block that brought the could and record snows to many parts of the northeast last year. The big difference this year are that the NAO is not at strong, and this is a La Nina year. That said, some of the long range forecasts I have seen indicate that the greenland block is going to break down in early January, which should allow more moderation in the temps out east. For right now though, its going to just be cold, and bitterly so for the next few weeks. Next weeks arctic blast is going to make this current one look warm for many. Im seeing high temps for my area next week of upper 20s to low 30s on the warm days, and night lows of 8-15. That is record breaking cold for this time of year for the mid Atlantic for sure.

If it really is going to be colder next artic blast I wouldn't be surprized if even Southern Florida gets a frost. Wow, the west really did get lucky, even though my area went down to 29f when it was affecting the west, that is nothing compared to the lows the east is getting.
Good luck everyone, especially you guys in the east. Hopefully it doesnt get worse, and this will be it for winter.
- US_Marine

Many areas of southern Florida will probably see a frost. Miami is forecasted to go down to 34F one night (last time I checked their forecast) which I believe is an all-time record low. Orlando will be going down to 21F which is near to an all time record low. These temperatures are even colder than last winter's which was a record cold winter for Florida. Only difference is this cold is a month earlier than last years! Hopefully there wont be too much damage to the palms and other tropicals!
-Alex

We're geting record cold and it's not even officially winter yet. Forecasted temps for Florida next week have improved, thankfully, but it's still record breaking territory. Wonder if this is the year I loose my Queens. I lost a small one last winter when he had 13 nights in a row below freezing.

We're geting record cold and it's not even officially winter yet. Forecasted temps for Florida next week have improved, thankfully, but it's still record breaking territory. Wonder if this is the year I loose my Queens. I lost a small one last winter when he had 13 nights in a row below freezing.

Fortunately they did raise the night temps in my forecast also. Instead of 15F, 19F is forecasted which isnt as bad. If thats the coldest we get this year, then this would be considered a very mild winter, but the downside is that its only December and there is a LOT more winter left!
Good luck!
-Alex

Wonder how this winter is going to compare to last winter. Take a look at the weather channel's map for the data from last winter (recently posted once again on their site). For the whole season, the coldest weather focused on the South. Another parallel is the ridiculous cold Great Britain and the rest of northern Europe is experiencing (just heard that they had -20 C. in Britain--that sounds cold without doing the conversion to F..) NJ/NYC Metro was only 'near normal' in temperature only--it was a crazy winter in other respects (fierce snows, rains, and wind storms). Oh God, I hope it's NOT like last winter!--And yet the winter minimum was only 14 above!

Here is a link that might be useful: Weather data from Winter 2009-10.

First snowfall today. While it did warm up a bit (got up to 37) it still snowed. Southern edge of the weak clipper hit us. Lasted a couple hours and was mostly light, with a few moderate bursts where I am, with an occasional area of light coating. 10 miles to the north there was almost an inch on the ground and everything was white. Ahhh winter.

We never made it to 22 the other night, actual was 25. Still cold for early December. Forecast continues to improve for next week.

We made it to 19F last night according to weather.com, but I think it was a little bit warmer than that in my location. Looks like the coldest night is 21F mid next week, but the days will be VERY cold with every day after Sunday in the 30s (and one in the upper 20s!). Everytime I post, the forecast for next week gets a little bit better and better. Hopefully their will be some average temperatures in the forecast soon!
Good luck!
-Alex

Lowest I saw here was 31F. Did some frost damage to grass and bananas, but all palms (date palms, pygmy date palms) are untouched as expected.

Does seem like the same weather pattern as last year. Hopefully, we won't have the two weeks of nights below freezing this year.

This winter might be very mild for the west, and hopfully for the east as well. Late dec-mid/late Jan is usually the coldest here. So far the forecasts are very mild, hope they stay. One thing I noticed is a warming pattern in the west. Since fall I have seen very warm temps for the season show up randomly and stay a few days. I think if it keeps up like that spring will come early.

My dwarf bananas are slowly pushing up new leaves even though they were fried pretty good! My larger bananas don't seem to be doing that, but the smaller ones might be. I still have bananas and cannas with very little damage. My avocado tree (undamaged) looks as if its about to grow again. My inground coconut still green and slowly growing. Many trees ares still holding leaves. Since they have so many still I wouldn't be surprized to see them stay on until Jan. Interesting year.

I wonder if this mean a long hot summer? Good luck everyone!
-US_Marine

One of my younger Sagos is already turning brown from the 20F a few nights ago, and the low Monday night is forecasted to be 19F.

Many of the Sagos, Washingtonias, and Date palms around here are just now recovered from last year, I'm not sure if they can take being defoliated two years in a row.

Currently 18F, periods of light to moderate lake affect snow, 40mph winds. Wind chills around 0F or lower. Looks like a mini blizzard / dusty white hurricane at times. Yes, I said LAKE AFFECT snow. This arctic air mass is so strong, and the winds are so strong, that some of the thin, rope like bands of lake affect snow from the great lakes are making it this far south. This is even very cold for Jan/Feb, and its not even WINTER yet.

I just looked at the radar, and this band of Lake Affect snow that is hitting us, is in fact making it all the way down to the Atlantic Ocean. WOW.

It's 14f this morning.We broke a 93yr old record,in 1917 it was 15f for a low temp.on this date.This is getting ridiculous,and it's not even winter yet!Were suppost to get up to 37f today and by Thursday the high will be 57f.I'm glad it's warming up but it's going to rain Thursday with a low of 31f,there saying it will be freezing rain.This FALL and last winter has been the worst I have ever seen in 42yrs.I'm moving to south Florida,LOL.
Randy

Got to 21.0 F. last night with a very light coating of fine snow. Tonight down to 18.0. What's really amazing is how far SOUTH this air is plunging--HOMESTEAD into upper 20's tonight and 30's into the upper KEYS. Once sizable areas of land get covered in snow, it'll be even colder for North America. Getting ridiculous now!