everything I've read says palms transplant/adapt better at a younger age. So I'm not surprised at all that full sized Palmettos died, they were probably raised in Florida or somewhere where they were never challenged low-temperature wise, and couldn't handle a northern winter. I'm not in zone denial, but I am willing to push the envelope a bit, especially when I'm dealing with cheap seedlings, instead of what I assume were several-hundred dollar full sized palmettos planted at the beach. Hopefully with adequate protection in the early years and then less as the years go on, this may work.

True, that smaller ones will adapt much better to cold. That said, It will be 30-30 years before you have anything resembling "trees". Thats why the "hurricane" cut Sabals are so incredibly popular. The funny thing about "hurricane" cut full size sabals, is that they generally are not real expensive. A few hundred bucks for a full size tree really is not bad, especially when you consider how slow they grow.

As for my "zone denial" comment, well, comparing Wilmington DE's climate / temperatures to that of Charleston, SC, pretty much screams "zone denial" to me. Im sorry, but Wilmington, DE, as I pointed out has a climate MUCH closer to Philly, Baltimore, DC, not Charleston, SC. Were talking about 2 zone difference here. Wilmington is a 7A, cold 7B at best. Charleston is a zone 8b/9A, with a lean towards zone 9.

Don't worry tho, we all go through it, and we all learn, and through that we all become "zone pushers", and THAT is a great thing, and can be loads of fun! People near you might think you are nuts, but I always get a little satisfaction out of the fact that those people who are "surprised" about what one can grow somewhere, have learned something new when they meet someone like us, and see the things we are growing where they thought those things would NOT grow. =o)

I have no idea about a full size palmetto but a 3-7 gal palmetto will do fine with little protection or none in great microclimates. I know there is someone who planted 3 gal Sabal palmetto in Elsmere last year and did fine with a little protection. Seedlings aren't very hardy at all due to size so they will need extra protection. Seedlings will also take years to become a nice sized plant in our climate.

For your plants in pots, I would consider taking them inside. The roots are very sensitive to cold and the fact that the pot allows the roots to come in contact with cold air is extremely damaging. It may be too late to save them already.

Yeah the potted ones I have outside still look fine from a foliar perspective, although the soil they're buried in is frozen hard as a rock. I have pine needles and dead leaves forming about a 1inch thick layer carpet over the soil. Compare that with the natural soil around my house that is still cold, but damp and not frozen. It should have been obvious to me that potted plants will be more susceptible to cold (because the roots are above ground) but I wanted to be able to bring them in if it got ridiculously cold. They've been outside the entire time, through the historically cold past few weeks. For a few days, one of my pindos was completely buried in snow, but has taken no visible damage because of the cold. I may still bring them inside, although they were each like 8 bucks from paradise palm co., so I'm willing to risk it a bit. I looked for sabal palmettos online, and the only easy ones to find were the small seedlings, do you know of any online vendors that sell 3-7 gallon palmettos? I am attaching a link of a thread where some guy said he gave his palmetto to the Delaware Horticultural Society/Delaware Center for Horticulture that they planted. The pictures no longer load, but I saw them a few months ago, and could only make out either a sabal minor or a sabal palmetto still too young to have an identifiable trunk.

Here is a link that might be useful: Delaware Horticultural Society Thread

I can tell you that seedlings for your zone for a palmetto is not ideal and you really should let them get large.

I would drive south a little and buy a decent size Palmetto with approx 1-3 feet of trunk. They will be hardier once established.

I struggled like you for years not planting hardy palms. After some so so news from my doctor I said "what am I waiting for and just did it"! I had to cut cement from the patio and it was a big deal but worth it. I would use you prime location and sacrifice your view for a while and see how it works out a couple of seasons. In DE that's only 12/5 - 3/15 for these palms.

Jim is the person I'm talking about. Triple Oaks Nursery sold 3 gal Sabal palmetto last year. They come from Chilly Palm Tree. Chilly Palm Tree sells them as mail order plants but I would suggest driving to the nursery instead.

I may pick a few plants up from NC later this year but I'm not sure yet. I still live pretty far from you (Lewes). I also know of a nursery in Bethany Beach that sells all types of hardy palms but I don't think he has Sabal palmetto in containers.

Any ballpark prices for what a 1-3 foot trunked palmetto would cost? Also, where I could find one? I would much prefer to order one online, but that Triple Oaks nursery in NJ is definitely within reach as well. I've attached a link, and $49.99 isn't bad at all if there really is a good amount of trunk. I am obviously aware I am treading on thin ice with this plant in my area, but to me 50 bucks is an acceptable risk. Has anyone bought from Triple Oaks before? Do we have an idea of exactly how much trunk to expect? It says 3 gallon palms...
Also, I have found this site which is selling S. Birmingham for the same price. http://www.chillypalmtree.com/SABALBIRMINGHAM.html
Any experience on whether the S. Birmingham or S. Palmetto Bald Head Island var. is the more cold hardy?

Thanks

Here is a link that might be useful: Triple Oaks Nursery - Scroll down for Sabal Palmetto Bald Head Island

The important thing is to purchase a established palm with some bulk to it. A S. Birmingham is great, I heard they grow slow and are more cold hardy. Even though they do not have much of a trunk, the leaves can get 8 feet or more.

A 3 gal Sabal palmetto won't have a trunk. I've bought plants from Triple Oaks and some of their palms come from Chilly Palm.

Sabal sp. Birmingham is hardier than palmetto. I have one growing here which is doing great.

Thess87,

Your plan is good and just tweak it according to what you notice in your area. It is possible to push your zone to minic that of SC by a few ways.

Trust me when I say you must protect most palms for your area -adds a half a zone, and planting against the sunny southern side of your home will add a 1 to maybe even half a zone. My mother-in-law was from there and I know the climate. Many people who did not protect this winter have experienced losses you are not hearing about.

turtile -
What part of the state do you live in? Also, can you post some pictures?

so I brought all the palms inside, no sense in keeping them outside when they are in their pots, I will plant them sometime in May. I am considering buying a few larger pindos and sabal minors to line along different sides of the house. My prime spot for a palmetto is still in the corner of the house (house is in an L-shape) that has a third side protected by concrete steps. I have no plans to plant anything there other than the palmetto for the time being.

Did you consider a pindo butia which fruits? They have been very hardy in VB.

Either one would still need a protective covering for the winter months.

Lewes is just north of Rehoboth Beach. I live more inland - on the west side of Route 1.

Here is my Sabal sp. Birmingham:

{{gwi:1184460}}

I'm jumping into this conversation a year late.

Those of us on the SE Delaware coast have quite a milder winter than the Wilmington area. Using the Weather Channel Comparison site listed in an earlier post, our temperatures here don't vary much from VA Beach or the Upper OBX. I have seen many of the hardy palmetto varieties thrive here--mostly Windmill, Needle, and more recently European. Today I saw the local Home Depot selling Pindos and European as hardy. I think I'll give Pindo a try as a failed this winter with Canary Island Date.

For Wilmington, I'd stick with Windmill. They're truly amazing. We don't get much snow or bitter cold here, but during last winters mega blizzard, one of my small Windmills was buried under 3' of snow and ice that kept sliding off my metal roof and crashing down on it. I thought it was a goner. Not only did it survive, it thrived this past winter.

Good luck.

So this past winter I put 15 young sabal minors in the ground (three or four unspread leaves, each about 1 ft long) and 1 large sabal minor (5 or 6 large spread leaves, each stretching about 2 ft from the center/stem) and one pindo palm that i bought while in Northern Virginia (DC metro area). Surrounded the pindo's trunk with burlap bag with aluminum foil inside bag, but about 1 ft of the leaves stuck out the top of where the bag protects. Also had four garden stakes in a square around the tree with a piece of wood that protected it from snow/freezing rain from getting inside the pindo. As of right now the pindo is still wrapped up, so i can't attest to the full health of the tree. The leaves that I can see are a light brown, definitely no green left. However, that is only about the most extreme 30% of the tree. The large sabal minor has some foliar damage but certainly still alive. The smaller sabal minors (which i planted spaced out around the house) are doing best on the eastern side of the house, worst on the western side. Turtile, how are your sabal louisiana's doing? I know Lewes quite well, alas, I wish I were that close enough to the coast for a milder winter. Wetsuiter - what protection did you use for your windmill and your date palm? Unfortunately I think date palms are rated like a 9a/b, can't remember which but certainly warmer winters than we can ever hope for here.

I've never grown louisiana. If you're talking about the Birmingham, it's doing very well. The western side is one of the worst for palms. It allows for cold Northwest winds and sun to cause dessication of the leaves.

You don't really need to protect Windmills most winters on our coast. I've never protected mine. I'd assume wetsuiter lives in town which is much warmer than where I live (a good half zone). I've even had Butia survive unprotected here but they were unable to recover a second time from a low of 5F. Due to their small size, they were probably much weaker than larger palms would be.

I also plant a Blue Mediterranean Fan Palm here which also survived 5F unprotected. I posted about it here.

I refuse to wrap my Windmill Palms. Survival of the fittest here. The small one that I referred to above as having been buried under 3' of snow and ice last winter wasn't protected either. I have four windmills--all about 3' to 4' tall--on either side of my back porch steps. I got tired of hauling in potted tropical palms off my porch every year. So I've embraced our Southern Delaware's classification in zone 8b and have attempted hardy subtropical, including the Windmills and hardy bananas. I DO cut back the hardy bananas to the ground each year and mulch them. By the end of the summer they reaching the porch roof. I've even used their leaves for cooking/wrapping like they do in South East Asia and Latin American.

The Canary Island Date was a mistake. I had confused what I had seen in the northern UK where my cousins live with a Canary Island Date. I'm guessing they are Pindos. Some of them are unbelievably huge. So I think I'll replace it with a Pindo I saw at Home Depot's garden center.

One of my neighbors has two windmills and puts a plastic cylinder toped with a plastic cone over the smaller one. The BIG one is really big--like 15' tall and its not protected at all.

If you ever get to Rehoboth Beach, there is a small B&B on Baltimore Avenue that has had Windmills planted out front and out back for over a decade. The largest ones must be 10' or taller. Some of them seem to be reproducing too! They always put out a stalk of seeds every year and there are some babies that seem to have sprouted under the parents. Their hardy bananas don't get cut back much below waist high and easily reach 15' by September. They even get unprotected oleander to stay green, up against the house. I failed with oleander this year too, but may try to locate a new one against my sunny porch in between my camellias.

I recently traveled to Southern California and The Carolinas where I was able to pick up a bunch of different seeds. Some are too tropical to ever be considered for outside, but a few including Sabal, Sabal Minor and Mediterranean Fan palm could winter over. I got enough to do a few experiments with--some inside in pots and others sewn directly into my beds. I have a whole tray of 70 peat pots sewn with sabal minor I plucked at Cape Hatteras last week. That's probably as far north as I've ever seen them growing/reproducing in the wild. Our Lewes winter temps are not much colder than there on the average.

Wish me luck on the Euro/Med fan palm I'm going to place out front.

And to Turtile... I am in town.

The place in Rehoboth also has a Med Fan Palm in the back under the banana. He protects it every year and it still gets damaged. The blue variety seems to be much hardier.

Pindo Palms have more trouble here due to the highs rather than the lows. We have many more days with below freezing highs than further south.

Is that 15ft Windmill visible?

I've never noticed the Med Fan Palm, but then again, I've never really been behind the place. Only took a peak when I saw the huge Windmill Palms back there.

I didn't realize there was a separate blue variety of Med Fan. I've never seen anyone around here trying to grow pindos. Aside from the other day at Home Depot, where they have both listed as "hardy palms." I don't think I've ever seen Pindos sold in the local area before. Tomato Sunshine and Famers Gril has sold windmills and Med Fan Palms the past few seasons.

I keep reading different things about the cold tolerances for both Euro and Pindo, which has made me more optimistic. I really never considered that the winter daytime highs would be the real issue. Maybe I just need to stick to my tried and true Windmills.

The really big windmill is visible from the street in Lewes at the corner of Kings Highway and Franklin Ave. That one is never protected. The smaller one on the side is covered for the winter, but has been recently uncovered.

I also didn't see the Med Fan Palm until the owner pointed it out to me! There are a few Pindos around. I think one may have survived unprotected for a few years but I'm not sure about the protection part.

I laughed when I saw Pindos at Home Depot a few years ago. Before that, they never sold hardy palms. Of course they sell palms that have little or no chance of surviving here!

Thanks for the info about the windmill.

Maybe you can send some palm photos from SE DE. If its as mild as you say, you may indeed do well with Pindos. I would be tempted to cover them though during artic blasts or blizzard events no matter how rare. The mild ocean probably keeps it a zone 8a-8b most years. However, that slight tilt northward from VB still allows some artic air to slip in during a record cold event.

8b might be pushing it here, brooklyngreg, but every recent planting chart has the Southern Delaware Ocean Beaches at the far reaches of Zone 8. Thr AHS draft revision (2003) has 8 now creeping up into Eastern Cape May County, NJ now, and swinging westward around the Chesapeake Bay of Southern Maryland and a few isolated urban islands in Baltimore and DC/Northern Virginia.

http://www.ahs.org/publications/the_american_gardener/pdf/0305/USDA_Map_pp_30-35.pdf

Go to page 4 of the pdf and blow it up to 150% and scroll over to the Mid Atlantic coast. Less than a decade ago, the Arbor Day Society updated their planting zones. It made front page news of the Washington Post because the entire DC metro area was now solidly in zone 7 and people were able to sustain trees and shrubs that were once only viable in the Carolinas (crape myrtles, camellias, etc).

The Post had printed a color map too. I noticed a funny dark smudge overtop Coastal Delaware. It clearly was a different color, but I couldn't be sure. I went to their website and sure enough, there was a thin sliver of (orange) zone 8 sneaking up the Delaware coast. A virtual island as it reached up the Virginia part of the DelMarVa Peninsula, skipped the Maryland beaches and resumed at the Delaware State line all the way to Cape Henlopen. The old Arbor Day map showed that zone 8 had formerly stopped at Virginia Beach. That is when I began to experiment with palmettos in my garden, especially after seeing the success that The Red Rose B&B had with theirs.

We do suffer the occasional hard freeze in the upper teens, but nights below 25 are the exception rather than the rule. Turtile is probably right in that our day time highs are not as mild as Pindos might need. Snow is also occasional and usually in an inch or two increments that melts in the morning sunlight. Winter '09 was gave us a bumper crop of snow that actually stayed on the ground for a few weeks, but it wasn't bitter cold. My Windmills came out fine.

I'll see what I can do about taking some pics of the healthy palmettos in the area. I'm new to this site, so not sure even how to post a pic.

I think most people who garden around here are not aware that hardy palmettos even exist or that Windmill Palms winter over here quite nicely. The garden shops sell thousands of tropical palms every season, so people can make their pools/porches look tropical for summer. They treat them like annuals, let them die over winter and spend hundreds, if not thousands on big tropical palms the next year.

I think Turtile and I need to go on a hardy palmetto crusade here in LSD (Lower Slower Delaware) and advocate for planting of the hardy varieties as a better value than tropicals in a bad economy. You game Turtile?

Welcome to the site. It's good to hear about all those details. I agree, it is more economically sound to plant cold hardy varieties. Thanks for the zone map and I will check it out. Whether or not the zone map has you highlighted as a zone 8a you can be confident that SE DE along the coast gets that tad milder air giving you a nice and longer growing season -8a 98% of the time.

My pindo palm survived 2 years now but I do cover her and many people in colder zones are doing it. I admit I treat my outside planted palms to a light bulb on really cold nites, but still its remarkable they survive! If I lived in SE DE I would certainly join you in some palm plantings and experimenting by planting on the south facing side of my home. In my experience, pindos actually fair better I believe that sabals when it comes to cold tolernace.

To post pics, go to potobucket and join and then post pics to your new account. Then copy the pic address and paste into this blog and hit submit and you'll see the pic to review and post.

Looking forwarding to a good growing year:)

The problem with the annual palms is the fact that they're so cheap compared to Windmills. The Queens are sold for $10 a foot. There's no way you're going to get Windmills for anywhere near that cheap!

One of the owners of the Red Rose Inn has been trying to get more people to replace annuals with hardy palms. I was able to get palms planted at the new high school with the help of one of the teachers (who also grows palms) through a grant from the South Eastern Palm Society. I'll post about that soon.

Yeah, I've noticed "Windmill Creep" on Baltimore Avenue--a few small palmettos now a door or two away from The Red Rose B&B.

The new Cape Henlopen HS has some Palmettos planted? News to me! Looking to hearing about your working with South Eastern Palm Society and the CHHS teacher.

I wonder if we could get Lewes, Rehoboth Beach, Bethany Beach (etc) garden clubs interested in working with the South Eastern Palm Society? I'm sure Dewey Beach would love to adopt a semi-tropical atmosphere. How about a Southern Delaware Chapter?

Wetsuiter - do you know the exact address where the palmettos are? I would like to check that out on googlemaps if possible, or the next time im down at the beach.

turtile: Are they palmettos or windmills that the school is planting?

Baltimore avenue in Rehoboth Beach is only two blocks long. You'll easily find the Royal Rose B&B (It's not the Red Rose) a block back from the boardwalk. It looks like it was lifted from Key West, especially when the bananas are full height and oleander in blossom. They have been the inspiration for my garden.

The palms are in the courtyard of the school so you can't see them from the road. There are Sabal minor and Birmingham, Windmills, and needles.

I think Bethany Beach almost planted Palmettos a few years ago.

I'll have to go over to Cape Henlopen HS and ask for a tour of the palmetto court. Sounds interesting.

I saw the owner of the Royal Rose B&B drive up to my next neighbor in his classic car emblazoned with the B&B name. I wanted to introduce myself to him and ask to come over and take a tour/take pics to post here.

I did some comparison shopping along Rt 1 yesterday. Farmer Girl had some really big Windmills for upwards of $300 to $500 depending on the size. Ouch. While, Home Depot had some Windmills, Pindos and more Med Fan Palms that all were about $99 for similar price as the $300 ones over at Farmers Girl.

If I was going to pay that much for a palm I would have to know that it was farmed localy. Cause, I have gotten a needle palm from Home Depot before and it got cut to the ground the first winter. I have planted minors and needles from N.C. in Oct. and gave them no protection, and they had no damage.

Hey in googling stuff I found a thread from 4 years ago on this forum with pictures of the palms at the royal rose inn. check it out

Here is a link that might be useful: Royal Rose Inn Palm Thread

Thanks to "theiss87" for the link to the Royal Rose in. However, those palmettos have grown CONSIDERABLY since then. Gives me high hopes for what my porch will look like in 4 years!

The two windmill palms out front (corner of the house) and in the sidewalk tree island are both well over head high. I'm guessing 8-10' tall. The one by the porch easily conceals that corner of the house now. I just drove by it yesterday. The ones out back are very robust, and surprisingly tall.

The ones in the back are actually the same age as the ones in front! The ones in the back are more protected from the wind.

All of my (unprotected, outdoor) windmills have had their winter spikes open up this week with the warm weather. Growing season is here.

I have seen pictures of two sabal palmettos planted in front of the mason temple in Washington DC, and apparently they have been there for a decent amount of time. I believe it was in a thread on this website about palmettos in maryland or something like that. Ill post an update if i can find it.

Thanks for linking us to some photos.

Does anyone have DE palms to post on this site? With all the sightings some updated pics could tell the story:)

"Go to page 4 of the pdf and blow it up to 150% and scroll the entire DC metro area was now solidly in zone 7 and people were able to sustain trees and shrubs that were once only viable in the Carolinas (crape myrtles, camellias, etc)."

Crape Myrtles have been a standard in the DC Metro for a long time. I remember them in 1971 and my mother remembers them being here in the 1950s. There are also more hardy varieties being bred all the time. As for Camellias, there are also lots of cold hardy ones on the market, so I doubt either is an indicator of impending subtropical bliss .

I agree the DC Metro is solidly Zone 7, but we are not at the Carolinas' climate levels. Despite all the conjecture of us transforming to Zone 8, the weather really has not changed much, if at all. We have always had hot, humid summers and winters that are moderate in comparison to Ithaca and Boston, but brutal in comparison to Hilton Head or Nags Head.

The Palms that can be grown here are the same data set of 7 or 9 hardies that everyone else tries and most of them, if not all, need protection. Other palms are not going to make it here absent some kind of greenhouse or similiar.

Not meaning to rain on anyone's parade. And that's not to say nobody should push zones- I certainly do. But let's keep it in perspective.

:)

Most definitely. We in DC or here on the Delaware Coast cannot compare our winters to the Carolinas. But having moved down here from DC/NoVA a few years ago, there is a marked temperature/snow difference here in the winter compared to DC. When it's snowing in DC, it's USUALLY rain here. Just that 5 to 10 degree temperature difference in the winter makes a big difference. A friend of mine who lives in Wilmington cannot believe the difference in our winter/early spring climate in terms of temperatures, less snow and the more varied types of plants that grow here that don't grow just 80 miles away. There is often a big difference between here and just 10 to 20 miles inland too. From my perspective, I'm convinced we are a solid 8a here on the DE COAST, like all the updated maps are showing. DC, perhaps not. :-)

On an similar, interesting note: Today, I think I discovered a palmetto seedling growing in my garden. Recently, I tossed some mixed variety palmetto seeds into my garden, but it's too soon/big to be from that batch. It sure looks and feels like a baby palmetto blade.

I'm guessing that if it IS a palm seedling, it was from a batch of needle palm seeds I scattered there last year. They were locally gathered. The seedling only has one blade, which is a tiny bit burned at the tip from cold. Perhaps it sprouted last summer and survived the winter under some perennial grasses? Time will tell.

I cannot speak much to the Delaware coast as I have only been there in the summer. But 8A stikes me a a bit optimistic. 8A defines the exreme SE Virginia Coast and below. No doubt it is warmer than DC and Wilmington due to the ocean. Still, I will reserve final judgment as I need to do some research.

Jacklord, please check out some of the updated maps for 2003 and 2006 below. The USDA map dates to the early 1990s. Zone 8 is no longer just confined to extreme southeastern Virginia. Zone 8 is creeping up the DelMarVa Penninsula along both the Atlantic Coast to Delaware and up the Eastern Shore of the Chesapeake bay in Southeastern Maryland. The AHS map even shows Cape May County, NJ in zone 8.

http://www.ahs.org/publications/the_american_gardener/pdf/0305/USDA_Map_pp_30-35.pdf

http://www.arborday.org/media/zones.cfm

Happy zone pushing!

Does anyone know how many times the D.C. Metro area (Reagan Nat'l.) has dropped below 10 F in the last, say ten years? Since the USDA zones are based on a 30 year (I believe) average lowest annual temperature, if the D.C. Metro area no longer gets below 10 F on a regular basis, it may very well eventually be classified as a zone 8. That said, the duration of cold and chillier averages make D.C. a different situation for certain subtropicals than places like Va. Beach and the Outer Banks.

-Michael

Not to mention that DC is three hours north of Virgina Beach and six to seven hours north of the Other Banks. If DC is now Zone 8, then those places should be bumped up to Zone 9.

The winters in DC are as they have always been- alternating between dreary and brutal. The hardy plants that survive here are the same ones that could survive 20, 30, or 40 years ago. Most needed some kind of winter countermeasure than and they still need one or more now.

Example: A Butia/Pindo Palm can eventually stand on its own in Virginia Beach or the Outer Banks. Unless you get lucky or find some freak of nature, a Butia will always need protection in the DC area. Always.

Admittedly, I have not crunched temperature stats. I cannot believe it matters, at least at this point. DC, and I suspect the Delaware coast, does not justify a Zone 8 classification.

We'll just agree to disagree then, especially if you've never been down on our coast in the winter. Having lived in both Alexandria, VA for 18 yrs and here in Coastal Delaware (first as a year round weekender for 10 years and now full time for 3 years), our winters are indeed milder than metro DC. Funny how many people I know in DC have no clue that the Delaware beaches are actually South Easterly of DC, not North East like Wilmington, DE is.

No need to crunch the numbers; they've been done for us in the updated maps. The AHS updated USDA chart clearly shows zone 8 flowing nicely up the DelMarVa (pg 4). When I use the zip code function on the Arbor Day Sight, my zip code and neighboring beach towns all come up with 7-8. I recognize that we are boarder line. That's why I put 7b/8a in my zone above, based on the zone definitions. The AHS map with a DC zone 8 is purely an urban heat island over the city mostly, the rest of the DC metro area is listed as zone 7. And as you suggested, the Arbor Day map shows that zone 9 indeed has crept up much of the SC coast and and there is an "island" of Zone 9 in eastern NC, including the central Outter Banks. VA beach is likely a zone 8b, which would explain why pindos/butia survive there.

No, we are not Virginia Beach, but nor are we metro DC. We just don't get the same overnight lows or the amount of snow in an AVERAGE winter as the DC area sees. We get virtually no snow (not counting last year's freak show). And temperatures below 20F are on the very rare side here. Even on the coldest night this year when outter suburbs of DC and Philly were near zero, it only went down to 18F here. Our average climate is somewhere between that of VA Beach and NoVA/DC.

I don't zone push. I don't wrap anything. I don't mulch my palms. Ever. On most garden websites I've researched, Pindos/ Butias are always listed as needing zone 8b (15F-20F) temperatures, so I don't put them in my garden. Windmills are listed as requiring zone 8a (10F-15F). They thrive here in many locations--unwrapped. I stand by my support of Coastal Delaware being classified as zone 7b/8a.

Fair enough.

:)

I have no doubt the winters on the Delaware coast are nicer than those in DC, which are one step short of total misery.

Time will tell.

Here are some updated photos of some of the large Windmill Palms in Rehoboth Beach as well as around my garden and others in Lewes, Delaware.

I was very interested to see so many of them flowering and one with big clusters of seeds from several past seasons still on the tree.

http://s1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb444/Wetsuiter/Delaware%20Hardy%20Palms/

found this thread from 2008 about growing various Palms in Tennessee - one guy (moutain_grown) even claims to have grown Palmettos in northern central TN. Here is a comparison of weather data (similar lows, TN has slightly higher highs, although that is to be expected)

http://www.weather.com/outlook/health/fitness/wxclimatology/compare/19808?sfld1=Wilmington,%20DE%20%2819808%29&sfld2=cookeville,%20TN&clocid1=USDE0055&clocid2=

At the bottom of the thread I posted a followup, hoping to gain some insight into how the past 3 winters have treated his palms. Will post here once he responds!

Here is a link that might be useful: 2008 Thread re: Palms in TN

Update on my Sabal Minors:

None seem to be completely dead, and most have visible shoots sprouting in the middle. I am attaching a link to my photobucket album.

WINTERIZING EFFORTS: All plants were coated with WILT STOP, and got the "garbage can over them" treatment when we had severe/heavy snow. Other than that they had no protection, so I am counting myself lucky that they all seem to have survived.

I also have a potted Sabal Palmetto that I am considering trying to plant sometime this summer, if not before. There are a few photos of a corner area that would be ideal, but another plant is growing there that I cannot tamper with or put anything near. So, there is an alternate view from within the corner, looking along a wall with some bushes near it that I think would still offer protection but not nearly as much sunlight for the palmetto. Please let me know what you think.

Here is a link that might be useful: Sabal Minors in zip code 19808

Found this recent thread in a google cache, actual link appears to be broken at the moment

Here is a link that might be useful: Hurricane Cut Palmetto Southern DE after winter

theiss87, I saw the sabal a few weeks ago at a garden center near Bethany Beach. Obviously is a hurricane cut transplant, which explains why it is struggling. From what I've read on S. Palmetto--specifically hurricane cut transplants--they don't recover well too far beyond their native range. Time will tell on this one, but personally if I were to try S. Palmetto on the Delaware Coast, I'd start with a pot grown 7 or 15 gallon one. I've not found any local garden centers that carry sabals. Mostly just windmills at garden centers here.