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Passiflora manicata 'Linda Escobar'

Posted by Northbay12 9B/14 (My Page) on
Wed, May 29, 13 at 22:50

Just got a Passiflora manicata 'Linda Escobar', wholesaler Suncrest Nursery. I bought it to replace a P. vitifolia that died from frost. I did nothing to protect it, and hoped it might come back from the roots. It didn't. I really wanted a nice red flowered Passiflora, (like I need another one, I'm up to 11 now!) so I nabbed this one. So I was wondering if anyone has experience with this one's hardiness, I should also note that it is under an eave, but I can also protect it, which seemed to work with my P. 'Purple Tiger', grown outside all winter. Our winter low I think was 26 F. Also I would be interested to know if anyone has grown this particular cultivar, and what the differences from the species are. Thanks!
Passiflora manicata 'Linda Escobar'
Gratuitous Purple Tiger Pics
Passiflora 'Purple Tiger'
Passiflora 'Purple Tiger' leaves and alpine garden in wine barrel


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RE: Passiflora manicata 'Linda Escobar'

  • Posted by mark4321 10a CA Sunset 16/17 (My Page) on
    Thu, May 30, 13 at 16:05

The P. 'Purple Tiger' looks great! Have you tried pollinating it? Even P. caerulea is supposed to give fruit.

Since this is such a specific question, if you don't get the answer you want, you might try the big (>1000 members) Passiflora Facebook group. I haven't checked out the Cloudforest Cafe lately, but there used to be a number of people who grew Tacsonias who posted there.

I have never grown P. manicata, however most Tacsonias die somewhere in the mid to upper 20s. My impression is that P. manicata might be towards the lower end of that range. However, I know the new P. manicata on the North fence at Strybing (a new variety from Venezuela, if I remember correctly) was heavily damaged this winter (probably about 30 F) but quickly recovered. So not all P. manicatas are necessarily hardy.

I see the Suncrest site (link at bottom) says 20-25 F for the 'Linda Escobar' clone. I would be surprised if it's truly towards the lower end of this range. You could always ask Suncrest directly, and while they are helpful there, I would suspect that that range is their answer. However, if you were 26 this winter, I would assume a more exact number would be useful.

I'm trying to think of people who might be able to give you an answer. I'm guessing Rick McCain (now Wild Ridge Organics, Proteas) should know, or of course Patrick Worley (who is a member of the Facebook group). A friend was able to contact him and find out the parentage of the P. 'Raspberries and Cream' hybrid they started selling (P. subpeltata X P. gritensis). Probably Carlos R. at Strybing would know whether it's fairly hardy. He is often at the plant sales.

I'm sort of tentatively organizing a get together, at some point this summer, of people interested in Passifloras in Northern California. The idea at the moment is to try to have some sort of informal gathering at Strybing (SF Botanical Garden) when P. parritae is blooming and PSI (Passiflora Society International) President Eric Wortman can make it. If this happens, and even a few people show up, perhaps that would be an opportunity to get an answer to the question. Maybe August or September?

I think it might just be easiest to ask on the Facebook Group
If it can survive to a little under 25, it sounds like you should be set.

Is it OK with the heat so far? Parts of zone 14 are likely too hot for P. manicata.

Perhaps it should be emphasized that while we can debate which side of the line you are on in terms of heat and cold, this is a species that will only do well outside in CA, reasonably close to the coast. It will fail in zone 9 and 10 elsewhere in the country (i.e. the Deep South).

Here is a link that might be useful: Passifloras at Suncrest

This post was edited by mark4321 on Thu, May 30, 13 at 17:46


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RE: Passiflora manicata 'Linda Escobar'

I guess I'll just have to wait and see, well take cuttings for insurance. So far I've overwintered/summered: citrina, sanguinolenta, 'Purple Haze', 'Blue Bouquet', 'Purple Tiger', actinia, and edulis 'Frederick'. Frederick looks pretty crappy, but recovering, doubt I'll get fruit. I overwintered exoniensis and 'Oaklandia' and planted them out before all the heat, and I have to say, they seem to love the heat, which surprised me. we'll see about frost though. Annoying thing is that no one seems to agree about hardiness, varying as much as 20 degrees, which make the ratings pretty much useless. So I will report back on their hardiness, I seem to be the only one in Santa Rosa who grows these. I have tried to cross pollinate the 'Purple Tiger' with 'Purple Haze', to no avail. I heard that 'Purple Haze' is sterile, but who knows? (not me). I'll try again this year, but I have to admit, I really just love the flowers and foliage, never tried the fruit, and I suck at seed starting. Thank you for the fast response.
'Oaklandia':
Passiflora<a href=Passiflora 'Oaklandia''Oaklandia'">


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RE: Passiflora manicata 'Linda Escobar'

  • Posted by mark4321 10a CA Sunset 16/17 (My Page) on
    Sat, Jun 1, 13 at 20:36

My experience is that a lot of the Tacsonias speed up growth during the heat, while at the same time (antioquiensis and hybrids at least) they get seriously misshapen leaves, signaling that something is wrong. I suspect they tend to burn out if they don't quickly get a break from the hot days in the form of cool nights and cooler days.

I think if you have a good spot (full sun all morning, dappled sun at most (or probably shade) in the afternoon, you will find P. exoniensis to be an amazing plant. It is tolerant of a little extra heat, and in my experience growing it in Sunnyvale, it was not fazed by the occasional 100 degree days. If it's in a pot, watch the moisture--I've been told a single drying out can kill it.

In terms of cold, P. exoniensis can take some. More than P. 'Mission Dolores' or, I assume P. antioquiensis. I'll attach a photo of a friend's damaged plant, as well as link to their temperatures in January. I think about 80% was killed, but it recovered nicely. I think P. exonienis is roughly as hardy as 'Frederick', although maybe the latter could recover better from very serious damage. The damaged P. exoniensis is unbloomed, by the way, presumably due to not enough sun.

Your P. 'Oaklandia is stunning. Notice the purple corona filaments--those did not come from either of the claimed parents. A friend in Berkeley told me about this, although he hasn't said anything "publicly" that I'm aware of. However, your photos are so obvious that something needs to be said.

Coincidentally, I just heard a couple days ago another report that P. 'Oaklandia' can tolerate heat. Hopefully we will hear more about that plant. I do grow P. 'Oaklandia'; it is unbloomed in a 1 gallon pot. I have found it (first attempt) hard/slow? to propagate (finally saw roots on one yesterday). I have actually attempted cuttings of P. manicata 'Linda Escobar', given to me by a really nice employee at a great nursery in Half Moon Bay, Flora Farm. Those cuttings failed (fungus, if I remember). I've propagated P. manicata 'Red' from Strybing while holding a plant for a friend. I don't remember that being easy, but it wasn't impossible. So in my limited experience, I would consider P. manicata to be possibly somewhat difficult. Bottom line--it might turn out to be easy for you, but you might want to try now/soon.

If you are looking for something to pollinate P. 'Purple Tiger' with, I've heard that P. loefgrenii and I believe also P.loefgrenii x caerulea are said to have particularly potent pollen. I don’t know if they would work on that hybrid.

The picture below was taken on January 15th

Here is a link that might be useful: The temperatures that damaged the P. x exoniensis above


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RE: Passiflora manicata 'Linda Escobar'

Wow! 26!! Did not expect that, I have it in a very sheltered spot, against brick, so I doubt it gets much below 30 there. Also the 'Oaklandia' has leaves that are now about the size of my hand, and very wide, much more vigorous than my exoniensis. Luckily, we have VERY cool nights here, we get quite a bit of marine influence here in SR. Feel free to use my photos as evidence, are we gonna have a Jerry Springer showdown with Liz Waterman? Lol. A good ol' fashioned 'Who's tha Daddy?' episode. Well luckily for me the parentage, though interesting, is not important to me, it certainly is beautiful and vigorous (so far). I am so jealous of those cool growers! 'Mission Dolores' sigh... Luckily though I am designing a garden in Oakland, and I am planning on a trip to The Dry Garden, with the homeowner, and a trip to Annie's. My loefgrenii is still pretty small, but hopefull will take off during the summer. Most of my passion vines are growing together, and I
have a ton of the large black bees (bumble bees?) and I heard those are pretty effective pollinators. I will post some pics of the 'Oaklandia' foliage, the new huge leaves compared to the old leaves, probably tomorrow. I imagine when I prune I will get a ton of cuttings, and you are free to nab them, no one else really seems that interested in them, and I only have room for one of each.
Also, just would like to say that I have grown Rojasianthe superba here in SR, and it did fine throughout the entire summer, we had 100+ degree days and it was in a pot, I had to water it every day, but because of our cold nights, it seemed to recover. It died in winter, I didn't try very hard to save it I admit, after the leaves died from frost, I lugged it into the garage, it didn't make it. I got it as a 4 in. start from Annie's, and it grew to at least 6 ft. tall in a 5 gal. pot, and the leaves were gigantic, don't think I'll try it again though, but I think it speaks to our climate, and why many cool growers do well in our heat: cool nights. Almost all of our summer nights last year were too cold to even eat dinner just before sunset, save for a few in July and August.


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RE: Passiflora manicata 'Linda Escobar'

  • Posted by mark4321 10a CA Sunset 16/17 (My Page) on
    Sun, Jun 2, 13 at 17:46

The P. x exoniensis on the fence is far away from any buildings, and it faces Northeast, if that's relevant information. So there's no reason to expect it gets any extra protection, however one never knows. My friend lost a P. 'Mission Dolores' a year earlier that grew against the same fence. Temperatures then were as cold or almost as cold, but not so prolonged.

Oakland would be a fun place to grow plants. It's sunnier and not as cold as San Francisco, but they avoid most of our hot days. Yesterday we hit 91, Oakland 79. The Dry Garden sells P. 'Mission Dolores', or at least they did earlier this year, if Annie's doesn't have it.

P. loefgrenii blooms very small, but seems to slow down a bit in the summer. So I bet yours blooms in the Fall. I don't know if you can count on Xylocopa (the big black carpenter bees) to pollinate everything. If you can, attempting manual pollination might increase your chances.

Rosjianthe is a very strange plant. Mine wilted every day last summer. So I put it in the ground--it still wilts every day. Here it is about noon, roughly 75 F. Mine gets midday sun:

 photo RojasianthewiltJune2_zpsa8b6b329.jpg

Yesterday it was much worse--the leaves looked like wet tissue paper. Every summer day it's incredibly wilted, and once the sun passes it quickly perks back up. I remember reading about the plant: "Does not tolerate heat and will die back to the ground if it is exposed to 80 degree temperatures for 3 days or more." (http://www.sfbotanicalgarden.org/garden/bloom_09_03.shtml). That seems to be a little overstated.

I agree that we are saved by the cool nights. I checked, and our low was only 60 or above 3 times last year (60, 60, 62). I didn't realize that Santa Rosa is so cool at night! Cold, even. I'm going to post what I found for temperatures--let me know if you think these are off. I think we are about 5 degrees warmer at night and 5 degrees cooler during the day during the summer. You might be able to grow P. parritae with those temps, assuming you can protect it from cold somehow in the winter. All you would need is a few degrees at night...

 photo SantaRosaclimate_zps5bfe4830.png

I'm putting all of this up there because I think it's really important to be very explicit and accurate about the temperatures these plants grow under.

I do think it's strange that they put Santa Rosa in Sunset zone 14, the same climate zone as Sacramento and Stockton.


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RE: Passiflora manicata 'Linda Escobar'

I never understood why Santa Rosa was lumped with Sac., either. They get way hotter, and the whole point of Sunset was to combine cold hardiness with heat tolerance. It's good to know that about the Rojasianthe, although the leaves were nice, that raggedy look just depressed me. I don't think I will be replacing it now that I know that it does just as poorly in the ground. There are plenty of other large leaved plants out there that won't wilt like that.
I think that our cool night temps are caused by the wind. Around 5 or 6 pm we get a nice breeze that brings in cool air. It's especially nice on really hot days, Cotati is even cooler at night, on Saturday night, even when it was 93 during the day, I needed a jacket after 6 pm!
Your words have been very encouraging, it is so hard to find information on the plants I grow. That is the downside of growing rare plants. Especially one that only grow here in California. As promised, here are the pics of the 'Oaklandia' foliage:imageimage
P.S. Have you heard of P. Allionii? Just saw it today for sale at Friedmans in SR, googled it nothing showed up, the leaves were almost chartreuse, but healthy looking, overall, reminded me a bit of P. edulis in bud formation, very strange, probably mislabeled. Just curious.

This post was edited by Northbay12 on Wed, Jun 5, 13 at 0:52


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RE: Passiflora manicata 'Linda Escobar'

  • Posted by mark4321 10a CA Sunset 16/17 (My Page) on
    Tue, Jun 4, 13 at 12:13

Eric Wortman (eristal) and Crystal Stone, the PSI president and treasurer, live in a city with a climate very similar to Sacramento. However, I see they are a different Sunset zone, presumably because they get a couple degrees cooler in winter. They have essentially given up on Tacsonias last I heard, due to those plants dying in their heat. I would expect Sacramento to be similarly difficult. I would even expect some of the really hot zone 16 areas such as Los Gatos to have more problems than you would have. I always thought that the afternoon breeze was a sign of ocean influence, which should make an area zone 15 instead of 14?

One great place to find out about plants such as Tacsonias is at the monthly Strybing sales (link at bottom). Usually they've sold Passifloras at almost all such sales, and people such as Carlos Rendon, Dave H. as well as others including other customers are a great source of information. Not too many people go to these sales, yet the quality and variety of plants, as well as the expertise, is extremely high. Each plant has a "theme" (this Saturday's is perennials), but they sell the entire range of plants.

Your P. 'Oaklandia' looks great. Not all Passifloras are nice-looking plants (P. gritensis, for example, usually looks ratty). I think it's somewhat of a general phenomenon for Passifloras, in the ground, to often start putting out huge leaves. I think there may be something about this on Myles Irvine's site. I'll look, but I'm not exactly sure if I can track it down. I had to laugh when I noticed you have a Begonia luxurians in front. I have one in a (2 gallon?) pot and it's now 5' 7" above the level of the pot. It's growing at the rate of a foot a month, which puts it around 10 feet by the end of September if it keeps it up.

I've never heard of P. Allionii. It almost sounds like a combination of P. 'Belotii' and P. 'Allardii' or maybe a misspelling of one of those. However, I was also skeptical that P. 'Raspberries and Cream' was a new hybrid, and not a made up name (it turns out it's P. subpeltata x gritensis).

Here is a link that might be useful: Strybing (SF Botanical Garden) sales

This post was edited by mark4321 on Sun, May 4, 14 at 12:38


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RE: Passiflora manicata 'Linda Escobar'

Sunset isn't perfect. I think that the best way to find out how well something grows in my area is to either grow it myself or talk to someone who has. Ex. Calandrinia spectabilis, Sunset says 15-17, 20-24, and yet here it is, out in the open, going nuts. It's the same with almost all of my plants from Annie's, the ones that Sunset lists, at least. Speaking of which, I just went yesterday. Here's what I picked up:
Aloe plicatilis
Aloe plicatilis
Aeonium nobile
Aeonium nobile
Gladiolus tristis, potted with Babiana odorata and Ferraria schaeferi
Gladiolus tristis, Babiana odorata, and Ferraria schaeferi
Euphorbia mellifera
Euphorbia mellifera
Beschorneria 'Martin Grantham Hybrids'
Beschorneria 'Martin Grantham Hybrids'
Galvezia juncea
Galvezia juncea
Plectranthus ecklonii
Plectranthus ecklonii
Salvia macrophylla 'Upright Form'
Salvia macrophylla 'Upright Form'
Cussonia paniculata
Cussonia paniculata
Lilium regale
Lilium regale
Graptoveria 'Fred Ives Crested'
Graptoveria 'Fred Ives Crested Form'
Aeonium 'Sunburst'
Aeonium decorum 'Sunburst'
Aloe tomentosa
Aloe tomentosa
Nolina microcarpa
Nolina microcarpa
Asclepias speciosa 'Davis'
Asclepias speciosa 'Davis'
Also I saw their 'Oaklandia' growing and flowering on the fence, and the filaments were white with just the barest hint of blue, and there was a question mark next to the hybrid name.
I would love to make it to a Strybing sale someday soon, thanks for the link. It's just a matter of facing the dreadful city traffic.
The begonia was grown indoors and brought out in February. It hasn't grown much since then.
I thought that it was odd that instead of just writing Passiflora sp. like they usually do, they made something completely random up. Very odd.


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RE: Passiflora manicata 'Linda Escobar'

Hi Northbay,

Read with interest your comments and photos about Passiflora parritae x tarminiana ‘Oaklandia’. I think that plant is going to surprise a lot of people. My plant looks very similar to yours, extremely healthy and growing nicely but about half the size of yours only because I've taken cuttings already ;-)

Currently my plant is sitting on a table on the entryway to my home facing north. It doesn't get direct sun. I have killed way too many plants as of late and didn't want to risk this one, but I suspect it may do ok with 1/2 day sun. It has been warm at night, close to 80 and into the low 90's during the day already and it doesn't seem to be fazed in the least.

And yes, I'm in Florida, West Coast just above Tampa Bay.

Darren


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RE: Passiflora manicata 'Linda Escobar'

Wow, I am astounded that this cool grower can live, even thrive, in such a hot zone. The plant certainly does have an unstoppable sunny disposition as advertised. Are you planning on planting in the ground. When I did, the leaves doubled in size very quickly, and the green darkened. Please report back at the end of summer to give a progress report! I am very intrigued. Never mind, I just linked you here from Flickr, then saw your name, oops, you may be the only one growing this in Florida after all!! It looks VERY healthy, though.


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RE: Passiflora manicata 'Linda Escobar'

Yeah, that is the contradictory expectation for a plant with such parentage, so I'm told. I'm just happy to have this plant at the moment and can't wait for the first bloom.

Darren


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RE: Passiflora manicata 'Linda Escobar'

  • Posted by mark4321 10a CA Sunset 16/17 (My Page) on
    Wed, Jun 5, 13 at 23:24

Northbay12,

Your plants make me want to plan a trip to Annie's soon--I haven't been in about 2 months, which for me is a long time. I've always liked all the different Cussonia species they sell.

By the way, I got about 100 seeds, only, of Darmera peltata. I think I lost a few because the seed pods cracked open while still green. Most of the flowers did not form pods, at least not yet. Something tells me I will still end up with far too many little plants.

Besides "just" the monthly Strybing sale this weekend, there are other events nearby. I just found out about this:

http://bearlyvisible.net/sfspringextravaganza/

Darren, that looks really amazing so far. I hope it makes it in good shape until Fall. I would be surprised if you see flowers while it's still hot. Even around here many/most high elevation species won't bloom in the warmest months.

Here is a link that might be useful: SF Plant Sales this weekend, repeated from above


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RE: Passiflora manicata 'Linda Escobar'

Hah! I'm already planning my next trip there. I also have a bunch of seedpods on my Darmera, I guess that answers your question regarding pollination. Also I put plastic bags on my Lupinus albifrons' seed pods, to catch the seeds, and it worked really well. So if you want any seeds, it's a really beautiful plant, I'd be willing to share a few.
Lupinus albifrons:
Lupinus albifrons
I never really liked Cussonia before I saw this blog. (link at the bottom)
Now I really want to go to that S&C and the Bromeliad extravaganzas! But I really can't go to plant sales, I always spend way too much.

Here is a link that might be useful: Cussonia paniculata


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RE: Passiflora manicata 'Linda Escobar'

  • Posted by mark4321 10a CA Sunset 16/17 (My Page) on
    Wed, Jun 12, 13 at 23:08

Here's my Cussonia transvaalensis on the left, Trevesia palmata on the right.

Las Pilitas Nursery shows a picture of the Lupine that makes it look like a small tree (link at bottom). I think I will take you up on the seed offer. I can't grow it in my space, but I think the no summer water and the fact it's one of 3 host species for the endangered Mission blue butterfly will do the trick to persuade my sister to grow it nearby.

Ever heard of Stinging Lupine? Lupinus hirsutissimus. Seedhunt.com sells seeds.

http://www.seedhunt.com/LtoR.htm

Here is a link that might be useful: Lupinus albifrons at Las Pilitas


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RE: Passiflora manicata 'Linda Escobar'

Gotta love them Araliaceae! I love that trunked up lupine too, mine is already getting a little woody at the base, that may be in its future. Never heard of the stinging lupin, but I want them all, the stinging is just a bonus, I'll plant it where someone keeps stepping on my plants... That'll teach 'em.


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RE: Passiflora manicata 'Linda Escobar'

  • Posted by mark4321 10a CA Sunset 16/17 (My Page) on
    Sun, Jun 16, 13 at 10:46

Back to the original question about hardiness of Passiflora manicata 'Linda Escobar'. I just ran across this, from the Monterey Bay Nursery site. This is very explicit, and I'm guessing they know what they are talking about. I'll just quote the entire description:

"manicata 'Linda Escobar' arguably the showiest variety and nicest flower of any species of Passionflower. The intense orange red color, dark blue coronal filaments, excellent flower size and petal conformation, and nicely held flowers that face out and up on the outside of the foliage canopy make this one hard to beat if you have the climate to grow it. It is an improved version of the species, differing as far as I can tell only in that critical point that it is facultative or simple long day initiation whereas P.manicata itself seems to be long day or very long day initiation, restricting its flowering to three summer months. This selection can flower for 7-8 months. This is right up there with the finest Salvias and Grevilleas for attracting hummingbirds, with its easy-to-find and copious nectar supply and perfect color. It is a close partner to 'Coral Seas,' matching it in almost every way except tint, and that 'Coral Seas' may have a slight edge on it in the way of flower production. Expect the same unparalleled vigor and rampant growth (can cover a house or bring down a oak if not controlled) and essentially identical behavior in frosty conditions (severly damaged below 27F, and often killed to the ground or beyond at 25F). Sun, average soils, rather drought tolerant when established and much better controlled by restricted watering. Northern South America. rev 3/2008 "

Here is a link that might be useful: Brought to you by the letter P at MBN


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RE: Passiflora manicata 'Linda Escobar'

I don't know if this makes me more anxious or less anxious about Winter 13/14. I did see one small 'Coral Seas' succumb in a neighbors front yard last winter. But that one was out in the open, completely exposed and unprotected. We got down to 26 briefly, mine is under an overhang, and I am willing to baby it, especially now that I've read that description. Thank you for sharing that! (Haha! Had to laugh at the name of the link!). I am a little curious, though, as to why it didn't show up during my google search of the plant. Curious...


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