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Pepper joe legit?

Posted by mistyreiny (My Page) on
Fri, Jan 31, 14 at 15:20

I'm looking at buying a crazy amount of seeds from pepper joe. As in $400 worth of seeds. The seeds are as follows. Carolina reaper, ghost, giant ghost, paper lantern, volcano in a box, fire in a box, 8 pack tomatoes, brain strain 7 pot, yellow devils tongue, red savina, box of dynamite, chocolate scorpion, yellow moruga, buch t scorpion, naga viper, douglah pepper, yellow7 pot, red brain strain, naga morich, yellow ghost, francisca, fatalii, chocolate habanero, scotch bonnet, Caribbean chili and habanero, Tasmanian habanero, white habanero, golden habanero, Jamaican pepper, spicy mustard, chipotle jalape�o, Fresno, maules red, jalape�o lover 5pack, cayenne bush 8fter (tree), Yahtzee, Thai sun, Tabasco, cayenne 6 pack, 5color marble, cascabella, peperoncini, fushimi sweet, Bolivian rainbow, Peter pepper rainbow, ancho, atomic starfish, datil, yellow lemon drop, filius blue, chili hot, paprika, corona di toro, yellow corno di toro, Antonio Romanian, canary yellow, mini bell, chocalate bell, king of the north, Aconcagua, golden Marconi, sweet banana, sweet crimson, cubanelle, keystone and Chinese giant.
I'm seriously looking at starting a small business by growing this amount of peppers, then planting their seeds gathered from the peppers, into growing up to thousands of plants and harvesting and selling the peppers both whole and ground into a powder. For me with this sheer number of plants, the only way to go is hydroponics. I have researching joe's deeply to determine if he is legit or not. I found one guy who's not. Robsrareandgiantseeds.com scam artist the whole way. Hundreds of negative reviews on amazon. I looked up pepper joe one site, he's legit, another he's not, raises cost and makes up names for profit. Note, I know I doubled up by putting down packs and didn't remove their containing seeds. I am looking for first hand testimonial regarding germination rate, and if the seeds he sent are what they grew. As well as does he back his guarrentee on germination rate.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Pepper joe legit?

Also I am looking for a site that is as thorough as pepper joe. The only Reqs are they must have reaper and ghost.


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

I am a newbie, so just take my opinion with a grain of salt. I ordered Carolina Reapers from him just a few months ago, and have had only one seed germinate out of 24 viable looking seeds that I received (purchased 20). Going on 11 days now, so have a few days to go before I give up.

Now, I'm using the paper towel method and a heating mat, so that will probably sacrifice many of the seeds compared to the traditional method. But I am also germinating 7-pots, Murugas, and Fatalli Reds and am having 20 times (20 to 1) the germination rates on those (so far). Same method, same temp, same moisture. Those seeds came out of ripe pods last season from fellow forum members.

Again, just my two cents, grain of salt, opinion... Don't expect high germination rates, the way I did it. I'm sure you will hear many different opinions though.

Update 2/8/14 - I have had a total of 6 Carolina Reaper Seeds Germinate out of 24. The first set of leaves also have a hard time sprouting free from the seed itself.

This post was edited by kclost on Sat, Feb 8, 14 at 10:07


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

There are many internet seed stores. Not every one might have everything you want. But at $400 ticket, you can procure your seed needs from two, three or more sources.
Just google pepper seeds,

I know one site with limited number of varieties. It is Sample Seed Shop. The prices are right at $1.50 or less.They are more dedicated to tomatoes then peppers though.


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

I'll preface this by saying I am not a customer of this vendor nor will I be in the future.

Type his name into the search engine at the top right, go get some popcorn and a beverage of your choice, sit back and get ready to read some long threads where this vendor is mentioned.


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

DO NOT DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

To bill missy, plz explain your comment with I ordered from him and I never received the seeds or zero germination or the seeds were not whatever they were stated to be or whatever your reasoning is. On a side note; thank you seysonn, the name of sample seed shop is what I really needed. The names of legit seed shops. I don't really want to go onto amazon to get reaper and super hot seeds, for you will not know what you bought until 9 months later. As is my problem right now.
Now I really need a shop with all the super hots: reaper, 7 pot, scorpion, definitely red savina, and chocolate versions of at least one. I don't care if multiple sites get listed that together meet all the superhots

This post was edited by mistyreiny on Fri, Jan 31, 14 at 16:46


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

I strongly suggest what NEOGUY stated above. I have posted to several threads on this matter and I strongly recommend you read those threads before you purchase from that vendor. This is just my thoughts, recommendations and advice in regards to this subject.

Bill


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

Do some research with this vendor. In the past, he has hired attorneys to write letters threatening lawsuits for defaming him or Penny, or for negative posts about his product to deflect any blame from himself. He will almost always come after you if you have a negative comment or review and always beware of the threat of a lawsuit.

Caveat Emptor with this vendor.

This is not the kind of vendor I want to deal with.

Not to mention the confirmed and blatant fact they renamed varieties for marketing purposes.


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

Do some research with this vendor. In the past, he has hired attorneys to write letters threatening lawsuits for defaming him or Penny, or for negative posts about his product to deflect any blame from himself. He will almost always come after you if you have a negative comment or review and always beware of the threat of a lawsuit.

Caveat Emptor with this vendor.

This is not the kind of vendor I want to deal with.

Not to mention the confirmed and blatant fact they renamed varieties for marketing purposes.


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

Sorry for the duplicate message


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

i will save my comments about joe to myself. but i will probably not buy from him again. if you want ed curries smoking eds Carolina reaper tm seeds then i would recommend https://www.buckeyepepper.com//


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

Mistyreiny, I would not buy from him just on hearsay. Also I hear he sells seeds at a dollar a piece, what are they made of gold or can I smoke those seed and get crazy high?
Anyway if your in NJ I would love to get in on a business.
Carolina Reaper is protect by laws, it can not be grown for sale in the form of fruit, plant and seed without permission. I think that should be against the law but that is just my opinion. I have some reaper seeds from a seed trade and I plant on growing them out and giving away as many seeds as I can just to say ha! What you have done is wrong. Just like Monsanto, they own Caribbean Red, why? Because they can.

Some of the seeds you are looking for I have an abundance of. Check the link, free seeds for everyone!!!

Here is a link that might be useful: Free Seeds For Everyone

This post was edited by LeafEricson on Fri, Jan 31, 14 at 17:52


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

in all the time I've been reading about hot peppers online, I've yet to see a single positive thing said about pepper joe. everything from buying one variety and receiving another, to not receiving anything at all, to not having any germination. add to that the fact that he is charging ridiculous amounts of money and trying to pretend he owns the rights to seeds (who is he, monsanto?) and it's just one big bunch of fail. seriously, what redeeming qualities does he have?

look up hell hot peppers. I bought seeds from them last year. reasonable prices, great customer service, great germination rates, and everything grew true. he has most of the items on your list, if not all of them (been a while since I looked).


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

Scratch buying from pepper joes, I decided not to deal with him, why waste 6-9 months for the wrong pepper to grow?im just gonna run with reputable companies like gurneys, burpees, the sample seed shop anybody know of anything else?


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

I would suggest trade winds fruit company. They sell alot of seeds and at a fair price. Never dealt with that other vendor as I was skeptical as well. Good luck. Also I think it is crazy for someone to claim they own the seeds or strain. Grow them and sell them, they belong to you. Good luck!


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

Sample Seed is a great small vendor; I've been very happy with their seeds and service. And Remy has been a GW member for many years.
http://www.sampleseeds.com/?page_id=2797


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

I've bought many live plants from Cross Country Nurseries, and they have been the true plant as advertised. They sell seeds
, but I have not ever ordered seeds from them. However as stated, the live plants are exactly what I ordered, and all have arrived healthy.


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

I harvested seeds from my plants that I bought from them, and germinated some by paper towel method, and some by direct sowing 3 weeks ago, and had excellent results.
I am only a customer, and have no affiliation whatsoever with them. I just ordered 6 new varieties of plants from them for this year.


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

Trade or SASBE.
PM me.
The name is,to my knowledge copywrited for Ed's reaper.
You can call what you grow anything but the copywrited name.
Lots of REAPER seeds and pods going around out there.

Lots of reaper versions out there,I personally don't think it is stable.
On a personal note,I wouldn't buy from PJ EVER again after the crap I got from him for posting my experiences with being his customer at one time.

I'm suprised he hasn't already posted how great he is on this post yet...
Maybe facebook is keeping him busy these days or?

This post was edited by smokemaster_2007 on Fri, Jan 31, 14 at 21:03


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

Cross Country Nurseries is now an official seller of Carolina Reaper. So if you insist on buying seeds then I can reassure you they are a very reputable grower. I went to their greenhouses last year and they are wonderful, everything I bought grew true to its name.

Here is a link that might be useful: Cross Country Nurseries


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

mistyreiny, send me an email at pier_man0909@yahoo.com

I may be able to help. I have heard some good things about pepper joe and some bad things. way too many bad things for me to buy from him.


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

Crosscountry nurseries all the way. Without a doubt. Sorta local too, in New Jersey, I'm delaware. Just across the bay lol.


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

Cross country nurseries unless anybody has anything bad to say about them. I did see the one negative comment about them on google, David's garden I think. Bad customer service, but everything regarding the seeds holds true. Screw pepper joe I'm going with reputable dealers like c.c.n.


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

I can't speak from a large order like that, but i would recommend Fatalii.net. The guy who runs it is very nice and i recall seeing some of the peppers you were looking for posted on there. I did have some damaged pepper seeds, but for one variety that was damaged and i had no germination he sent replacement seeds. I really haven't had customer service quite like it and it was a nice surprise. Can't hurt to have a look or email the guy.

Here is a link that might be useful: fatalii seed listing


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

24 replies in 7 hours with "pepperjoe" being in the subject line of the post?

I've never ordered from him, but with that kind of feedback in such a short period of time tells ME one thing --- take heed!

Too much controversy over the years surrounding this guy. With many well reputed online stores available, I, myself, would take my business elsewhere. Just my opinion.

Kevin


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

I buy from Tomato Growers , Tropical seed , US hot stuff , RAINBOW CHILI SEEDS(Mostly,Vladan is REALLY cool) and a few other vendors.
Peppermania WAS very cool but Beth has dropped the ball in the last couple seasons.
She isn't taking care of the seed sales anymore in a timely manner.
She has been a personal friend of mine so I don't post this easily.
To put it bluntly don't order seeds from her.
She does seem to keep up with her other sales of bottles etc. from what I see.

Trades these days are mostly crosses with super hots...


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

I think Joe just lost a $400 order


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

My experience hasn't been bad with him. 5 years back I had some bolivian rainbows come out in weird shapes and almost black, but other than that I got as expected.


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

I think what's turned me off to him is his obsession with having the "world's hottest pepper." Of course, that has invited a lot of fights on the internet. Not my thing.


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

Pepper save you most certainly right. But chileplants.com earned it.


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

That was supposed to be pepper Dave. Autocorrect on iPads works too well.


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Another big yes vote for Cross Country Nurseries.

I had nearly all my seedlings die last year, if it hadn't been for CCN I would have had a really sad season.


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

Anybody know why I heard this? That carolina reapers are illegal to sell? Is it the name that is copywrited? Or the pepper itself? HAs anybody else heard this?

This post was edited by mistyreiny on Sat, Feb 1, 14 at 14:01


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

Cross Country sells reaper 20 seed for what Joe wants for 10. They sell the plants for $6 if you cant start your own other super hots are $4 good selection. I live in NJ also and have met reps from them at local farm markets an they seem very knowledgeable. 12 years ago they had a good selection and its only gotten better over the years.Back then nobody had superhots Cross Country had the best selection around.I ordered from Joe 25 years ago and had good luck with his seed ,he was in Pa. back then and did not have much competition .Wow theres an eagle outside getting my camera .
Ok Im back got the shot


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

Now I am thinking that, after reading this thread, I'm saying screw pepper joe, he ain't legit nor somebody I can trust nor a business I want to pay. On the other hand I'm going to visit ccn. To buy lots of plants


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

Here is some info on the trademark..

Here is a link that might be useful: trademark


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

I know it is illegal carolina reaper because he trademarked the name, but hp22b I don't believe can be trademarked. Comments on this are very informative, thank you.


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

You may have something there. But I still would not want to end up in court over a pepper that isn't that great anyway. Plenty of other peppers out there, Primo is very similar to CR if not the same.
Get some primo and some CR, grow them out and then come back and tell us if you can tell the difference. That is if the CR grows true. not likely, you will probably end up with totally different pods on every plant.


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

Mistyreiny send me an Email I can just give you some seed you need Im right across the bay from Lewis Its a 3 block walk to watch the ferry come and go. I grew 120 plants right off Ferry Rd Save yourself some $. My check my trade list Im not hurting for what I have . Maybe we can meet at Dogfish Head and I can give you some seed over a good beer. Its popular here to take a bike across the bay and ride the trails to the Pub


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

Misty, email me. I can send you atleast 20 on your list. John


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

I have not personally purchased any thing from pepper joe because I find his prices too high.

I have purchased from Sample Seeds and am always happy with what I have gotten from her.

Another place you can check for seed is to look at the watchdog list of seed sellers. So far I have only ordered from those companies on the watch 30 list.

HOpe this helps

Missy


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Man all these bad reviews has me worried. Being new to the pepper growing scene at least from seeds I bought some reapers and butch t trinidads seeds from joe. Should I worry now that the seedlings Ive been babying for the last month are going to be wrong plants.I paid 10 bucks for 10 seeds each and had a good germination ratio on the reaper seeds sowed 7 5 germinated the butch t on the other hand I sowed 7 and only 2 germinated after 4 plus weeks indoors on a heat mat. Man i hope they grow into what I had purchased.


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

Even though I would not buy from joe again, his customer service is pretty good. make sure that you keep your order number. if you have any problems with them not being correct or germination issues. just let them know and they will make good on your problems.


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

Im sure you got the right seed.That does not seem to be one of his issues people have.They Were not crushed in the mail They germinated. Your off to a good start. Enjoy Its not to late to get in on a trade. seems you could use a few Butch t"s . Welcome to the Forum . Send out a few Emails and life should be just grand .Save some seed for next year and spread the wealth. That is what Pay Forward is all about. If you can manage to plant things in Isolation you don't even have to write OP on your donations . One of the things I like about this Forum is the total willingness to help other people get what they need . We all have a common goal . You get help this year . Next year you help others. It works


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

"If you can manage to plant things in Isolation you don't even have to write OP on your donations."

I couldn't disagree more. I want to know if plants are isolated. Isolation by distance, depending your source can be 50' or a half a mile. If you're on a seed train, which I've never done, and you don't care about crosses, than fine.

If I'm trading for a specific known commodity I want to know if it is isolated or not. Better yet I'd like to know if the seed source is a commercial supplier.

If I trade I will tell you if the seeds are isolated by the bagging method, if they are commercial seed or if they are not isolated.

By the way, I've not traded much here at GW but have on other forums.

I can tell you I'll have a bunch of Padron and Joe's Long
Cayenne to trade at the end of the week. I'll have a bunch of super hots to trade next fall IF THEY GROW TRUE from trades.


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

I bought bolivian rainbow pepper seeds from pepper joe. I had about 90% germination. Right now I have a 2 week old plant and I'm not sure if it bolivian rainbow or something else.

Can anybody help identify?


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

Another picture to help


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

I don't know what he is but he looks very healthy.
Is that one going outside soon?

Stoney


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

I suppose I better start hardening him off and let him get some sun. I've been growing him along in my closet set up with with grow lights. Stays around 85F with high levels on humidity.


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

This year I got all my seeds from, store bought (fresh and dry), off the rack at BBS, and a few from generous fellows like Tim and Leaf Erickson. If I had to go to internet , I would definitely go to Sample Seed Shop. They have very low prices , low shipping charges and moderate variety.

On the other hand we have to realize that this is a free enterprise. I am against dishonesty and misrepresentation but a seller is free to charge whatever the price he can make a sale. After all this is a sort of hobby line and not a critical thing like medicine and health care product.

But we are fortunate to have generous members here who are willing to trade and share. If not reaper, you can get a lot of super hots.


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

Those leaves look awful green for Bol. Rainbow, mine have a purplish/blackish tint.
Pam


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

Anybody want to donate bolivian rainbow seeds. I can trade. I have black pearl pepper seeds to trade


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

I've grown Bolivian Rainbow the last couple of years and saved seeds. I'll be pleased to trade with you for Black Pearl. Just send an email and we'll get started.

Tom


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

All the Hot Pepper seeds you will ever need. I work with Jim and he knows his stuff!

http://store.myorganicseeds.com/Hot-Pepper-Seeds-C149719.aspx?sid=14895


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

I just ordered seeds from Jim Duffy ^
Very reliable source and germinated fast!

Thanks Jim :-)

Stoney


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

Stoney, He had his plant sale at his house this weekend. I picked up a 7pot burgandy Devils tounge and a Red peter pepper. plus a couple sweets.


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

Pepper Joe IMO is simply the best site out there for buying seeds. He and Penny's tomatoes are the only site I order from unless they do not have a specific variety that I am looking for. Given a choice I will pick those guys first because the quality of product is worth the price. You get what you pay for! Here is a Carolina Reaper plant from a seed I planted from PepperJoe. I reuse everything so even the pot the reaper is in is used.


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

Man, there are at least twenty seed companies I'd go with before even considering Joe or Penny.....

Josh


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

I have never had any issues with tomato growers. For some of the more specialty varieties I used https://www.buckeyepepper.com/

Never heard anything good on pepper joes/penny.

I'd almost order from ebay before I would either of those two.


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

Never buy seeds off eBay. I tried to order Bolivian rainbow seeds off eBay and the plant I got from the seeds was jalapeño


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No I know that, I was merely stating I would trust ebay before I would pepperjoe or any of the others that have piss poor reputation. Lol


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

  • Posted by esox07 4b Wisconsin (My Page) on
    Wed, May 28, 14 at 18:55

Yah, Ebay is probably less than a 50/50 crap shoot. Amazon is probably 60/40.

Is PepperJoe still affiliated with Ed Currie regarding the Carolina Reaper? I know when it first came out, they were partnered in promoting it and selling seeds but I never see PJ mentioned in regard to the Reaper any more.
Bruce


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

I think this is funny."Never heard anything good on pepper joes/penny." then what did I just say about Pepper Joes? You know I still have not have had a bad experience with Pepper Joe. I wonder if you guys are just saying He is bad from what you HEARD? Try them out before you trash them.


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

Maybe YOU shouldn't dismiss people's opinions before knowing if they are actual dissatisfied customers.

You may be one of the few who didn't get burned.

I will never again buy his products,even if he had the last pepper seeds on earth.


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

Exactly. Not only is his product and service suspect, but he's a bully.

Josh


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

I got some seeds from Pepper Joe and so far I've got a 100% germination rate. Plants are growing well in my hydroponic system. I got all of the varieties that I ordered in the mail very quickly. I can't speak to the customer service since I haven't had a problem, but I have nothing bad to say about them so far. I think next time I'll order my reaper seeds directly from Puckerbutt because last I looked they're a little cheaper. Definitely states on their website that Carolina Reaper cannot be resold in any form and I can't blame Ed for doing that considering how much time and money he put into breeding the strain and getting it certified.


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

Definitely states on their website that Carolina Reaper cannot be resold in any form and I can't blame Ed for doing that considering how much time and money he put into breeding the strain and getting it certified.
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Definitely you cannot sell the seeds but you can save your own seeds, for family, friends and give away free for your fellow members (Like me ! hehe.) Just kidding the last part.
Ed and joe and the company know it well that they have a short window of time to make some money. Unless the come up with a NEW IMPROVED gimmick.


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

  • Posted by esox07 4b Wisconsin (My Page) on
    Tue, Jun 3, 14 at 9:45

Is it really legally possible to prevent someone from selling the seed from something they grow?
Bruce


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

Bruce, it's illegal to sell the seed as "Carolina Reaper."

Josh


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

  • Posted by esox07 4b Wisconsin (My Page) on
    Tue, Jun 3, 14 at 21:13

Hmmmmm. OK, thanks Josh. Probably not going to stop the Ebay crowd though. Nope "Carolina Reaper" listings are all over the place on Ebay. Of course, if they are actually Jalapeno Pepper seeds which is more likely, they are technically not breaking the law anyway. hahaha
Bruce


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

For what it is worth, I purchased about 10 varieties of seeds from PJ this year, before stumbling into this topic. I seeded 7 of them and had close to 85% germination rate. Plants are still very healthy looking now that they are outside. Hopefully they turn out to be what they were advertised to be.

I highly recommend Trade Winds Fruit. They have a great variety of hot and sweet peppers.

I also purchased some from Pepper Gal. I seeded 3 varieties with mixed results. The Choc Hab's had a 0% germ rate and the seeds looked like crap.

Also received about 20 varieties from Leaf Erickson which makes up the bulk of my collection this year.


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

Bruce, that of course is fraud of a different kind...using a branded name to sell an inferior product.

The Peppadew pepper cannot be sold as Peppadew, either.

Josh


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

I've read, read and reread this thread many times. I've never ordered from Joe and from what I've read here and elsewhere, I won't. 'Nough said about that.

But I've done some research on the various things said about Carolina Reaper. I'm not a lawyer. I have followed 5 legal cases for 10 years where a paralegal and several lawyers, retired judges, law professors, etc. explained the law surrounding the issues. The same company was suing other companies for various things they liked to call violating their "IP." IP stands for intellectual property, a term that has no legal definition as far as I can tell. Trade Mark law, Patent law and Copyright law all get rolled into the term "IP" and some try to apply the law of one to the others. That is not the way it works.

So, PBPC, LLC has two Registered Trademarks for the mark "SMOKIN' ED'S CAROLINA REAPER." One for pepper seeds and one for processed peppers. To get the Trademark (from the correspondence) "Applicant must disclaim the descriptive wording “CAROLINA REAPER” apart from the mark as shown ..." Later it goes on to say "Specifically, the attached evidence from Localharvest.org shows this wording is the varietal name for the goods, making it the generic name for the goods and incapable of registration." So, in IMHO it would seem that we and anyone else can call the pepper Carolina Reaper without infringing the trademark (please note I didn't say illegal, this is not criminal law, it is civil law.) So, from what I can tell, no trademark issues for using Carolina Reaper.

Next, I searched the US plant patent database. There is no application to get a PVP, Plant Variety Patent, for Carolina Reaper. So, no patent violation to sell the seeds. Even with a PVP you are not limited to what you do with the plants, or products made from them; you would just need a license from the patent holder to sell the seeds and most likely paying a royalty for the privilege, but not an issue anyway. So no patent issues, from what I can tell. I can only attach one link, so if you want the link to the PVP search, let me know and I'll e-mail it to you.

Now, in something like this, I can't see how Copyright law would apply. It applies to photos, writing, songs, etc. Once you fix something in a tangible form, it has a copyright on it. That is why all photos found on the internet most likely are under copyright. I won't go into the history of the Berne Convention and when the US finally signed the Treaty, but for close to the last 30 years, once something was written or a photo taken, the person doing that had a copyright in it. For the most part. There are exceptions, but that just means someone else most likely ended up with the copyright. Moving on.

So I kept searching. Trying to figure out why people thought it was illegal. Finally I found on Ed's site, after adding seeds to a shopping cart, there is a box to be checked agreeing that you will only use the seeds for personal use without Ed's approval and that this applied to all of his authorized sellers. Not sure how you can put that restriction on others as it is only an agreement between the one seller and the one buyer. So don't get your seeds from a company that has that restriction and I would think you can do what you want with them and the seeds you harvest. Naturally, I didn't check the box and I abandoned the cart. I'm not agree to those terms.

So, again, IMHO I can only see contract restrictions on selling seeds, fruit, products from the seeds you get, if you get them from someone who has put those restrictions on the sale. But breaking a contract is different than breaking the law. Of course, they can send you threatening letters, from a lawyer and they can even file a civil suit against you and take you to court. Can they win is another question. Still, it might cost you more than you like.

Again, I'm not a lawyer and this is just my opinion and not legal advice. Go do the research yourself and come to your own conclusions.

Here is a link that might be useful: USPTO Trademark word search


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

I would assume that the more money one makes selling the seeds or peppers tagged with the Carolina Reaper (Ed's Smokin'...) name, the more money one stands to lose. Small timers and hobbyists have little to fear.

Josh


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

the long post above describes the situation fairly well as far as the copyright is concerned, people cannot use the words smoking Joe's Carolina Reaper as part of something they're trying to sell because that is copyrighted. He is also correct in the fact that when you by the seeds from him now you have to click of that box and you are promising you will not selling any of the products afterwards. If you are not willing to cooperate with that situation then you do not buy the seeds. So that is the technicality. He didn't used to not have that on his website. I bought seeds when they first came out from pepper Joe. Both Joe and Ed, neither one of them had any requirements on selling anything afterwards. So at least the seeds that I got originally can be used for peppers for sale and seeds and that kind of thing. I can mention that they are Carolina reapers, but not smoking ed's Carolina reaper.
I personally will never buy pepper seeds again from pepper Joe I've gotten seeds three different times. I was able to get fairly good germination at around 80% on one variety, but most of the other ones were below 30 including the Carolina Reapers. I had bought my first set of seeds, already gotten my germination, and I was talking to Joe on an email telling him how bad of the germination I had gotten and I was looking for plants to buy. I couldn't find any plants so I ended up buying more seeds from pepper Joe and I just purchased them.He did not give me any extras he did not try to give me a discount or give me anything because of the poor germination I'd had before. Not only that but the genetic diversity of those original plants was terrible and I had anything from a smooth naga to something that looked like what they were supposed to look like. I have never formally asked for refund, he knew about my situation but when I buy things on multiple occasions and the product was bad I don't need to go through all that effort. I just won't buy anything from that person anymore. I at least have been able to take the genetics from the original Carolina Reapers and took the very best plants in the best pods and have started my own seeds for the next generation of what I'm calling the improved Reapers and already the majority of the plants are producing pods the way they should look.
There are plenty of other people who bought seeds with no restrictions on them, like myself, but it is hard to know who is who when buying mail order. I see advertisements for sale of the Fatalii Gormet Jigsaws, and no seeds have ever come out of Finland without the same, no sales attachment to them. Bottom line is, I feel that if you sign you won't sell, you should keep that promise, law or no law.


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

Take the seeds you bought, grow them and harvest new seeds from the new pods. Then call them fill in the blank's reaper. You cannot copyright or patent life. That would be like putting a patent on blue eyes. You can only trade mark the name in this case. How do they keep track of the seeds and peppers they sell, and the seeds and peppers everyone saves from their harvest? FYI I don't sell seeds, peppers, plants , or anything else and I am not a lawyer.


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

Groklaw, eh?

PJ, please come back. We miss you!

DMF

EDIT: OOOPS. By 'PJ' I didn't mean the pepper guy. PJ is Pamela Jones who ran Groklaw - now unfortunately defunct.

This post was edited by DMForcier on Fri, Jul 18, 14 at 21:29


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

Wow I didn't really expect to see this much PJ hate. I am new to maintaining a veggie garden - this is my 2nd season. My first season I just bought seeds from the local garden store. I got about 33% germination on all of my pepper varieties (I blame myself). This year I ordered some of my pepper seeds from Pepper Joe's on recommendation from a friend. I also ordered from a couple other places (High Mowing and KitchenGardenSeeds - also on recommendation). I did order two packets of Cayenne peppers and some Jalapenos in that Pepper Joe order. One of them was delivered as "Cayenne Blend." I'm a pretty laid back guy so it didn't bother me and I didn't complain about it or return them. Plus, some of the Cayenne varieties look pretty cool...and I got two free packets of seeds in varieties that I probably wouldn't have otherwise tried.

Anyway, in the end, my germination rates this year were about 80% across the board. The PJ plants are doing fantastic and are producing a ton of beautiful peppers even though I'm in zone 5 and without a spot that gets quite the recommended amount of sunlight. The PJ plants are actually quite a bit more prolific than the equivalent plants from seeds I ordered elsewhere. I would order from Pepper Joe again. I just need to look into how to protect them from cutworms next year, but that's for another thread.

I know everything I ordered is less exotic and probably easier to grow than what most of the patrons here prefer. For me, it's a fun hobby and I don't (yet) take it as seriously. I imagine it's very demoralizing to think you're growing a Reaper, only to find out it's something else...but for the casual type like myself, Pepper Joe's is just fine.


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

Yes, when you invest four months into growing a plant, only to learn it is something else entirely, it can be quite discouraging.

Pepper Joe and Dale Baker are probably the two most despised seed sellers out there. And they've earned every ounce of it.

Josh


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

It's weird, then - because Pepper Joes has a lot of customers who claim satisfaction. Perhaps he's just despised in certain circles.


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

Hey Josh, I've never heard of Dale Baker... what's the scoop?
Pam

Although I found his site - Chocolate Reapers????


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

Certain circles....like most facebook pepper groups and the big one, The Hot Pepper forum.

Chocolate Reapers....yeah, there's a whole story behind that, Pam. Search the Hot Pepper page to get a glimpse of what Dale's been doing....

Josh


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

DMF (Dennis?) -

Yeah, you guessed it, Groklaw. Man I miss that site and Pamela. Finally I've reached the point where, while reading news, I think, Oh, PJ will explain this in a way that makes sense. Then I'll remember, no, she won't. Drat it all.

Still, after what I thought was a careful explanation, people still aren't getting it, drat it all.


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

Since it was mentioned, I'm compelled to say that in no way do I hate pepper Joe. I may not buy anything from him again, but that is just a business decision. In the same way, I won't be buying fresh peppers from Dale either. Dale Sr. was a real nice guy who ran a plant nursery and people liked him, bit he quit helping his son and now Dale Jr makes his own decisions, which sounds like are bad decisions.


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

No way in hell, ever again with PJoe or Dale Baker. Just don't!

Seeds? Nobody has mentioned the number one vendor amongst folks on THP: Judy, at pepperlover.com. Generous, reasonably priced, nice collections, and just a great person to deal with. Janie, of course, at CCN, same deal and of course ships plants; a great guy on THP who has some nice peppers is in The Netherlands, nice heirloom tom and great pepper seeds, Stefan at http://www.tasty-peppers.nl/ and click in link at upper right on USA flag to get website in English. Trade Winds is not bad. For unusual seeds, Peter, at http://www.semillas.de or just type in semillas de and again, on homepage click the Brit flag for English. Bjarne developed the Bhut Orange Copenhagen which is far tastier than any Reaper, although the Reaper variants are better, imo than "original." Bjarne's site is: http://www.bh-froe.com/ZC/ and go down to bottom and click on the Brit flag for English. Grant, in Australia, at Junglerain.com and Neil at The HippySeedCompany, also in Australia. Old Barn/Buckeye is also pretty good in Ohio. If you should happen to live in Western NC or Upstate SC, for live plants, Piedmont Farm and Garden Supply in Spartanburg, S.C. (Way too expensive, for live plant shipping compared to CCN, but can order 1 or fewer than 12 plants.) One could call and see if they have what one wants for walk-in. LOTS of hybrid varieties of supers.

So, there are MANY options. And if wanting "true" Bubblegum 7, for instance, ask what gen the seed cross is. I respect Jim Duffy at Refining Fire, for stating when a cross is still unstable. Any of these folks should answer that question via email if they don't state. Even if they do, still ask. If they won't contact ya, don't buy from them.

But there are only two that I won't deal with; have already stated who they are, because have dealt with them and gotten burned.

Much peace,
Annie


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

  • Posted by Orekoc 7 Willamette Valley (My Page) on
    Thu, Aug 14, 14 at 2:21

Annie - You mentioned ..."although the Reaper variants are better, imo than "original."" Where can these variants be found? I've done some looking, but can't find them.

Thanks!

Orekoc


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

I ordered Bolivian Rainbow seeds from him and this is what I got. Nice looking plant but it's definitely not Bolivian rainbow. I think it's Numex twilight

Note to self, do don't order from pepper joe again.

This post was edited by andrew.hopper2012 on Sat, Sep 20, 14 at 13:54


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

I know Seriously Hot Peppers has plants available of what they call IR1s, which means improved reaper 1st generation. They have mentioned in THP that they are some of the people who got poor quality genetics from the original reaper seed distribution and have taken their best plants to start this new generation of better quality reapers.
+1 on Judy at pepperlover, she is awesome. Good prices and a really nice lady. If I ever need a new type of pepper seed I don't have yet, I check with her first and then go from there. With her, pepper lover is not just a name.


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

  • Posted by djoy 5-6 (My Page) on
    Sat, Sep 20, 14 at 22:19

There is a saying that I often heard while working as marketing director for some.... people that get it however they can and get lots of it , "There is no such thing as bad publicity" For those of us that actually read this thread it's obvious this isn't good for PJ's.
The problem is.... the mere title of this thread plus the fact that it continually reemerges creates a situation where the questionable company gets free name recognition through search engines... (google, yahoo... whoever GW cares to include). For those that aren't as avidly interested as we are they just see a name then search that. Boom! The S@#$ talk benefits the Sh#$$er.

Maybe someone should start a new thread.... with a name that doesn't give PJ's so much internet search ability .

I am sick of seeing the name pop up..... for now.. I do believe in forgiveness if it is warranted
lets kill this thread and put all the good into a new one that never actualky uses the name.

dj

sorry for the rant. Just had to give it one more boost to the top.. ggggrrrrh.


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

Or if we post just 60 more times to this thread, it gets locked and heads for the basement. :)


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

djoy - I received your email but since you haven't set your own email preferences up to reveal your address I will have to respond here.

On Gardenweb, once the threads have reached 150 posts they become locked so no one can respond. I'm not sure if it's done automatically or a mod does it, since a quick search for "a certain salsa maker" for example, showed some threads reaching 151 posts.

Once a thread gets locked it can't be brought to the top with new posts so it heads for the basement (covered with other threads) where only search engines reveal it's presence.

59 to go...

This post was edited by mecdave on Wed, Sep 24, 14 at 20:27


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

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RE: Pepper joe legit?

Apparently 57 to go.

This post was edited by phepper-schmo on Mon, Sep 22, 14 at 6:49


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

This may be a duplicate post.


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Who cares?

I'm starting to think this is a duplicate post.


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Not me

Okay, this is definitely a duplicate post.


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It's spelled "legitimate"

Just sos you know.


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

So DMForcier, was it really a duplicate post?


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

Or was it really a duplicate duplicate post?


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

Seriously though, I really think it was a post (cubed).

JMHO


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

Super, only XLIX to go!


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

mecdave,

I'll call your XLIX with a XLIIX

Really, can we do hex, octal or binary. The Roman stuff just seems so... ok, Roman ;-)


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RE: Pepper joe legit?


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

^ Pawned ^


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

Armature. I mean really, that's grade school stuff. Besides, there's a error in the third equasion.

Get with the game northeast_chileman. 4f/5 ???


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

 photo heroofinternets_zps65c8eac9.jpg


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

LOL

Thanks


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

Hey northeast_chileman

Since we're totally off topic, here's one back at you ;-))

This post was edited by ottawapepper on Tue, Sep 23, 14 at 15:46


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

 photo 3-1257235324-the-straw-that-almost-broke-the-camel-s-back_zps7123d63d.jpg

The straw that broke the camels back?


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

 photo 98d1158920230-kindergartens-oerlikon-zurich-hijack.gif


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

 photo spam.jpg


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

Hey, I think I have seen this post before.... Is it a duplicate post that has been seen before? Maybe it is a duplicate of a post in reference to another duplicate post I have seen before, because I could swear I saw this duplicate of another duplicate some time ago on a duplicate post.

I don't know.... Maybe to many beers after I duplicated the first one once since the first duplicate was gone... HMMmmm

My name is Bill... Sorry, duplicated


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

Dang, Sorry. Duplicate post. Must delete...


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

  • Posted by djoy 5-6 (My Page) on
    Tue, Sep 23, 14 at 0:56

Aaeyaeyai..... ....... why do I feel uneasy about all this garbage......


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

  • Posted by djoy 5-6 (My Page) on
    Tue, Sep 23, 14 at 0:57

Aaeyaeyai..... ....... why do I feel uneasy about all this garbage......


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

  • Posted by djoy 5-6 (My Page) on
    Tue, Sep 23, 14 at 0:59

Aaeyaeyai..... ....... why do I feel uneasy about all this garbage......

DOH!! Dang triple post! Hate it when that happens.


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

Since this thread turned into a free-for-all.... What do you think about this pic I'm gonna put on my salsa jars?... Haha! My wife's friend is gonna get stickers made


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

Answer: NO


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

ANOTHER DUPLICATE ?!? NNOOOoooo...

bloody keyboard gif


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

wow... I don't open a thread, who cares, it's about PJ (I really hate that since it's also my initials), well, get bored, so I click on it... boy, it's amazing what goes down when the adults leave the room .. Love the HADRON Bill... and DMF... GROSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pam


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

Oh, you haven't heard about cow farts devastating the planet?

IIRC God told Noah that the next time would be fire. It therefore follows that ...

..

. wait. "Adults"?


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

No, gross in the poor computer person who bloodies himself senseless with eyeballs flying all around.. Gross!......... but cute............
Pam

but. seriously, if cow farts are destroying the earth... doesn't that mean eat more cows?? not go vegan... you go vegan it will just get worse. ;-)

This post was edited by kuvaszlvr on Tue, Sep 23, 14 at 15:38


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

Haha! Dennis, I was gonna do something similar to your cow picture up there, but I was afraid of getting the torch "too close for comfort." It was hot enough holding it next to my face! Plus, we had to take 4 pictures to get it just right. Never mind "downstairs"


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

Boy has this thread gone in many directions, my kitty doesn't know what to make of it!

 photo cat.gif


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

Let's get it back on track!

26 to go!


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RE: Pepper joe legit? NO

I'm reporting you for kitty abuse!


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

I know you all are trying to blow through the posts, but I don't care who you are, the cow fart was funny. :-) :-)
I have to show that to everyone at hot pepper night next Monday!


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

She got herself into the bathtub. You stick your arm into the non-de-clawed maelstrom to help her. (;>))))


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

Oh yea, did I mention I like the cow picture?


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

I just checked, I DID say I liked the picture!


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

I think they should be forced to wear asbestos underwear!


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RE: Pepper joe legit?


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

Who's to blame for the current CA wildfires?


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

  • Posted by djoy 5-6 (My Page) on
    Tue, Sep 23, 14 at 23:19

Mike, You should send OSHA a couple bottles of your sauce. Hehe!

dj


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

I think we need a mascot.

This post was edited by RonnyB123 on Tue, Sep 23, 14 at 23:31


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

bump


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

DJ- haha! "OSHA" Sauce...

"OH SH!T, HOT A$$" sauce!


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RE: Pepper joe legit? NO

FDA: "We do not approve."

Dooncat

This post was edited by DMForcier on Wed, Sep 24, 14 at 21:59


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A different type of kitty abuse

.The most horrible kind...

snort cat

This post was edited by DMForcier on Wed, Sep 24, 14 at 17:39


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When to buy from PJ

Explanation needed?

piggies

This post was edited by DMForcier on Wed, Sep 24, 14 at 17:36


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Okay, so how many now?

Still counting...

counter

This post was edited by DMForcier on Wed, Sep 24, 14 at 17:34


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

  • Posted by djoy 5-6 (My Page) on
    Wed, Sep 24, 14 at 17:37

Yeah! Ill take. Couple bottles of the non approved OSHA sauce.


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

8
7
6
5
4
3
2
1
0
">


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

  • Posted by djoy 5-6 (My Page) on
    Wed, Sep 24, 14 at 18:16

 photo IMG_20140924_161141_zps5c6b28d5.jpg


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RE: Pepper joe legit?


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

Helping with the countdown to 150


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

I just edited a previous post to remove the name of a certain salsa maker that I had mentioned. Didn't want folks to find this thread when searching for directions for her salsa. ;)

3 to go...


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Ready?

Yep.


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Set

Almost there.

Animated GifsAnimated GifsAnimated GifsAnimated GifsAnimated Gifs


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We done

Done


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RE: Pepper joe legit?

I have really enjoyed this thread and thought I should end it with an on topic post. I just wanted to say I will never buy seeds from Pepper Joe again because of the lack of quality of the seeds I purchased. The reaper seeds had way too much genetic diversity and also had very poor germination rates. I am ending up throwing away 2/3 of the plants I got, so after buying 5 packs of reaper seeds, I got 3 good plants to work with. I bought these packs in two different batches. I had even mentioned to Joe how poor my germination rate was on the first batch and they did nothing to help me out when I bought the second batch.
I bought 3 other types of seeds and got even less of a germination
rate. He does send extra seeds with an order, but they are something I don't want and either give them away or throw them away.
I have found sources where I get excellent germination rates and I do task well worth my own seeds, so I do know how to germinate seeds.
And now, die thread die.


 o Post a Follow-Up

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