you should!

With approach grafting, you don't lose either plant (unless something goes terribly wrong).

Well... On a lark I brought the experiment indoors... Turns out to have been a good idea...

17mph winds, with 44mph gusts...

So as it turns out, my webhost gets unhappy when I use 10gb of bandwidth in a given month... So they suspended me (temporarily) and I am in the process of moving all my pictures over to photobucket...

Meanwhile, here is a picture of the graft...

Its growing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As always click for a larger image.

Ken

Ken,
I would be awful tempted to cut the scion's stem for two reasons: 1) I would want to make sure the graft was complete and 2) I would want to see how the peppers turned out if it was a full graft and the scion was pulling all it's sustenance from the host. But maybe for this one, going with the double tap might be best as long as it is working, then maybe start another experiment but cut off the scion stem after the graft site has seeming completed.

That one looks good though. Keep us posted. It will be interesting to see if you can get some fruit off it and what the fruit looks like.

Bruce

Had some spare bhuts and normal trinidad scorpions. Decided to take one of each and pot them up so they were touching as fresh seedlings, see how easily I can get them to merge on their own before I try it with the rare ones.

yeah no doubt!

I keep going back and forth on whether or not I'm going to cut it.

There are good reasons on both sides... But we'll see.

If I do, it will be well after the 1 month mark... We are at what? 5 days?

So I'll hold off on anything drastic... Also Before I cut the stem, I'll let the peat pellet that the scion is in dry out, to force it to live off the host... if it starts to die, I have a chimera, and have not successfully "mentor grafted". Just made one plant grow around another... Which while cool, will still be a failure.

Sounds like a good plan Edymnion.

I'm also considering what amounts to a terminal bud graft with an established host, and a scion in the cotyledon stage.

With 108 varieties and 1000 plants, how do you have time for all this?
Bruce

heh, well I don't YET have 1000 plants... 111 varieties now =( about to be 131. ~300 plants.

The secret is unemployment...

Also the latest graft is thriving... I'm going to cut the stem soon I think, just to ensure the scion is pulling all its life from the host.

The others I'm working on are doing fairly well also...

This first one had its coty eaten off by an earwig.

As always click for a larger picture :)

here are the three currently in process grafts.

I was wondering how your project was going. I hope it keeps going after you cut the umbilical cord.
Bruce

*poke*

Inspired by Jsschrstrcks efforts I've had a go at grafting too. Ive attempted grafting a scotch bonnet seedling (grown from a store bought pepper) onto a habanero (purchased seeds). I made the graft 7 days ago and both scion and stock seem healthy. There are two parts of the plant wrapped in parafilm because a few days after grafting I left the plant on my floor and stood on it causing it to snap!

Luckily it seems to have recovered and you can even see new shoots on the stock and the first true leaves appearing on the scion so fingers crossed. Hopefully I'll get two different types of pepper from one plant :D

Also the stem seems darker where the damage was made is this normal for peppers?

Thanks

Dave

When stressed (though usually by the sun, or other factors) plants can produce anthocyanin, which turns them purple... As long as you know you are not over watering, then its no worries :)

Also my latest update, I cut the stem off the cotyledon between the graft union and the roots.... This was four days ago now I believe... Its looking fantastic... The leaves have doubled in size, and there is new growth all over the plant... It was trying to bloom, but when I cut the stem on the scion, it went immediately back into grow mode, and is going like crazy... Here are the pictures:

Also I'm glad I inspired you! looking forward to seeing how your project goes.

This one was the day before I cut the stem (20th).

This one from the day after... you can see the little stem flying free... It has a teeny tiny leaf growing out of it now (not shown). This picture was taken the 22nd.

Thanks for the advice Jsschrstrcks it does seem purple when I look more closely at it. Congratulations with your graft it seems to be doing really well!

Jsschrstrcks: So now you will have two branches on one plant and each side will produce two different peppers all using the same root system...Scotch Bonnet and Habanero. Is that correct?
Bruce

Bruce - yes AND there exists the possibility that from the junction a new node will form with the genetics of BOTH host (probably an annuum the more I look at it, not sure if I ever mentioned how my helper "helped" me mix up some habs/jalapenos/cayennes) and Scion (scotch Bonnet)...

Sooo It could be hot like a scotch bonnet, and longer, and thicker walled than a cayenne... Or it could be long and thin like a cayenne with thicker walls, or or or or... So many possibilities... Excited to see what comes out. If anything. The next step will be to keep the scion limited to two leaves to make it grow up equally tall as compared to the host... would hate to have done all this work, only to have the scion drop off due to lack of light :K... but for now its still living in my dining room, in relatively cool and dark conditions.

Can you prune back the host a bit to give the scion a fair shot at catching up?
Bruce

I considered it Bruce, but I am not sure I want to put the host through that amount of trauma at this point... Most of the grow energy is going into the scion - which is how I want it.

I did cut some leaves off though to provide it with more light... I moved the planter closer to a window... I might put it in a west facing window (evening sun) and see how it does today... Its been pretty shaded for some time, and the leaves have grow a lot larger in response... We floridians have smaller leaves due largely I think to the amount of sun (we are closer to the equator, so its more intense as well) and heat. Thus each leaf requires less surface area to absorb the same amount of energy.

My test pair are large enough to try the approach graft.

Took out my trusty exacto and sliced a thing sliver off the side of each plant. Had a moment of panic when the blade hit a knot on the taller plant and twist in. Cut it fairly deep, enough to make it lean over but not entirely in two. Anyway, it could still stand more or less under it's own power, so I figure it should heal back together okay. I hope.

Taped the two stems together and then pinched the tape on the sides to squeeze them in even tighter to make absolutely sure they were touching (and that the almost decapitated one was nice and sturdy), so hoping for the best.

If nothing else, it was good practice for the real deal in a month or two.

Are those two different varieties or are they both the same?

Bruce

One is a bhut, the other is a trinidad scorpion (plain t.scorp, not butch t).

I have no clue which is which anymore.

GOtta wait for the fruit I guess.
Bruce

Not to change the subject, but I'm a little confused. I read somewhere that the Butch T was just a regular T.Scorpion. It was only labeled as Butch T because that is who donated the seeds. Is this true? I keep reading how hot the Butch t strain is, but according to what I read, there is no difference. It's the same strain.

peppernovice:
Check out the video below. It will give you the full back ground on the Trinidad Scorpion Butch T pepper.
Bruce

Here is a link that might be useful: Trinidad Scorpion Butch T pepper

So far so good. End of day 1 and the plants look pretty much like they did before I cut 'em. I rather expected that for the one I didn't accidentally gouge, but seeing that the one I did is in perfect shape makes me hopeful.

@esox07 Thanks Bruce, that was very informative. I guess there really isn't a difference.

Well there is and there isn't.

They're both Trinidad Scorpions, just the Butch T strain is much hotter than the regular t.scorps.

Its like saying there's no real difference between a sweet jalapeno and a hot jalapeno just because they're both jalapenos. There is most definitely a difference.

Just when i thought I had it figured out....oh well.

Basically, think of it this way.

All new strains of peppers come from existing strains that have had random genetic mutations produce a new trait. That new trait is then selectively bred for until it becomes stable (meaning it is always passed on), and then it is officially recognized as a new strain.

Look at the regular Habanero and the Chocolate Habanero. They are both habanero peppers, and they both came from the same original habanero strain. Its just that one day someone noticed one of their habs made pods that were slightly darker than the others, so they grew the seeds from that one and crossbred them back and forth and eventually you got a new strain of habaneros that were brown skinned instead of red.

Same thing here, only instead of shape or color changing, its heat levels.

Good explanation Edymnion.
Bruce

have you ever seen a pepper plant that grows Strawberries on 1 side and Melons on the other ?

Nope, and considering the vastly different genetics involved, I reckon I never will.

all things are possible i didn't say connected to the pepper plant (smile) ... lol

Actually you rather did.

"have you ever seen a pepper plant that grows Strawberries on 1 side and Melons on the other ?"

If they're not attached to the pepper plant, than its not the pepper plant that is growing them. =P

true ... lol :) i will let you all know when i get it figured out because i am gonna gaft something and make it work .

Good luck! I have been following this thread, hoping you would get it figured out. I can't wait till I can grow a sweet 7 pot with a lot of kick! I just need you smart guys to figure out how to cross the 7 pot with a sweet pepper. :)

Update time!!

I'm calling this graft a success... Click to zoom in :)

That picture is of the host + scion. The scion is the thin branch facing you. If you follow it down to the stem of the host, you can see the now uncovered graft site. If you are particularly observant, you'll see that there are roots growing out the side of the host where the scion is attached.

This is a picture of the graft site taking immediately before I took the tape etc off the graft site.

This last one is a picture of the graft site immediately following the removal of the graft tape. you can see the roots directly above the bottom node.

ALSO the mystery of what exactly the host is has been solved... The host is an Annuum of course, but more specifically it is a Long Thin Cayenne. The scion came from some Scotch Bonnet Seeds. I purchased them from Amazon... So who knows if they will be true... Further complicating things there are Annuum and Chinense Scotch Bonnets. It appears to be growing like an annuum... But its grafted onto an Annuum...

I'm going to have to do some more experiments...

Approach graft success.

The two stems are definitely fused. Now to see how the grow.

Looking Good man, keep it up :)

Bump

so how is the grafting coming along .... anything promising ?

just did a few myself ...... i took a larger Numex host and attached a Douglah to 1 side and a Bhut to the other then i have another guy i have been working on for the last month or so it is a Brain and Bhut Approach graft i have cut them now for the 3rd time to assure they are good and connected also i took off the top of the bhut plant so the Brain will be a 2 root system thinking about adding a 3rd root system to it maybe i also have a numex host with a tepin scion on top and a tepin host with a numex on top .

just grafted a reaper to the top of a yellow scorp will try and update some photos after they all heal up a little so far they are all looking great .

this describes the mentor grafting process

Here is a link that might be useful: http://www.arccjournals.com/pdf/Reviews/ar-30-4/ar-30-4-002.pdf

there is more info here

Here is a link that might be useful: http://www.nature.com/hdy/journal/v104/n1/full/hdy2009115a.html

This is what I understand Mentor grafting to be, approximately:

Grafting an immature scion of 10-14 days old,

on to

the lower branches of a young rootstock of 2 to 3 months old.

After 3 or 4 days remove all but 3 of the top most leaves.

Every 3 or 4 days after that check the leaves, each time remove all but 2 to 3 leaves, older leaf/leaves first.

PS:

I think that 2 to 3 month old growth on a rootstock that is older than that may work,

This post was edited by alanmercieca on Mon, Jul 29, 13 at 0:21

I've sat down and read this whole thread the other night. holy crap this is fascinating. I really wanna see where this goes. Armageddon, when you do post pics, may I request that it be in a new thread, so I don't have to scroll 5 miles to see it?

I'm thinking that either t budding, or Chip budding could be used, since they do not require much of a grafting area,

Also I'm thinking that topworking grafting might work on the end of the branch, as well.

I was reading for a graft to work best, it best to stop growth or the rootstock, by cutting off the buds of the root stock,

I have a theory why mentor grafting works, the sap is sort of like plant blood so to speak, I have heard of studies that prove that blood from a young person can make an older person way more healthy and strong, I think young tree sap can do the same thing

In this case pepper sap