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the sun

Posted by TNKS none (tomankelly@yahoo.com) on
Tue, Feb 25, 14 at 22:26

Anyone have working experience with growing in west Texas
sun ?
Brutal to most in the nation(some just think they understand)
Can I run super hots in direct "all day" sunlight?
Local sources arent much more help then shopping at Walmarts
If they indeed like sun,I have all they can handle from April to November.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: the sun

I would give then some type of protection during the summer there. I've been to OK and west TX in the summer and it's absolutely brutal. Not that they won't survive in that heat, but I doubt there would be much production, if any.

Even here, when it gets over 95 for just a few days at a time in late summer and fall, I get the shade cloth and sheets out and try to move my potted plants to my partially shaded patio. Where you're at, it gets like that for months on end and the nights don't even cool off much--- not good for flower development.

Also, MULCH, MULCH, and more mulch!

Kevin


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RE: the sun

TNKS,
The sun is brutal over here in Bastrop County, Texas where I am too. We had weeks of 100+ degrees and low humidity, although not as low as West Texas.
I grew my Bhuts with morning sun and afternoon shade from trees. Some Thai Hots with dappled afternoon shade, and native Tepins and Pequins in shade and full sun. In full sun, the plants tend to be shorter and produce less until fall. In morning sun, they produced heavily all year long. I'd say rig a shade cloth to protect from 2 PM 'till sundown starting in mid-June. That's about when my tomatoes quit. Here's a pic of four Bhuts in morning sun/afternoon shade.


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Nice plants!

And yes, Virginia, it is possible to have too many ghosts.


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RE: the sun

DMForcier,
Not if'n you put'em on yer Cheerios...


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RE: the sun

I'm in the Tulsa area, so not as dry as west Texas, but we have been known to have weeks of 100+ and 110+ temps. My garden is in full sun. The plants, peppers, tomatoes, etc do fine, in fact some varieties produce all summer in the high temps (haven't figured that one out, I've bagged flowers all summer). The ones I have in pots I will put in afternoon shade just to keep the soil from drying out. The ones in pots don't seem to do as well in the extreme heat as the ones do in the ground. You do need to water a lot. ;-) Biggest issue I have when the high heat of summer sets in, you really want to be out of the garden and back in the house by 9am, 10 at the very latest.

Mine don't produce as well in August (when it's 110+), but once it cools they come back better than ever until we get a hard freeze. I figured, I am happy with the results as I am buried in peppers year round, I have way more than I could ever use.
Pam

This post was edited by kuvaszlvr on Thu, Feb 27, 14 at 9:38


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RE: the sun

Sweet, there's a Texas heat thread in here already! I've been wondering about how my peppers will do in summer too. What I have set up right now is an experiment. I've planted vines to partially shade a part of my patio. I'm hoping that they let through just enough sunlight for my peppers to get what they need for photosynthesis, but prevent scorching.

Speaking of Texas weather, I'm biting my fingers now about having started some things before the last average frost date. Had to carry all my babies back indoors yesterday morning. Unfortunately one tomato is in a container that can't be moved due to the sheer size of it, so that had to stay out (covered). Though surprisingly it seems to have survived the 28 or so degrees we had overnight in San Antonio.


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RE: the sun

  • Posted by esox07 4b Wisconsin (My Page) on
    Thu, Feb 27, 14 at 13:13

Oh. 28 degrees!
Our forecast for the next week is for 24 to be the warmest it gets all week. I was in the Army and stationed in S. A. twice. My wife is from SA. I am really missing those COLD S. Texas mornings right now.
Good luck with the peppers because 28 is really pushing it. I hope she makes it.
Bruce


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RE: the sun

Yeah, we're looking at single digits, highs in the teens and twenties, freezing rain, sleet, and snow early next week and then 60 next friday... this is getting very old. My fingers are crossed that my plants will survive in the greenhouse with temps around 5-6 at night.

S.A. as in South America or South Asia? I assume America. Or someplace else completely?
Pam


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RE: the sun

SproutinLexi,
I don't usually put out stuff until later in March because I've been burned by late northers. I'm waiting to see if those Bhuts in the pic will come back in the spring.


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RE: the sun

  • Posted by esox07 4b Wisconsin (My Page) on
    Thu, Feb 27, 14 at 16:45

Pam: S.A. is San Antonio, Texas.
Bruce


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RE: the sun

Best suggestion is afternoon shade for all capsicums and tomatoes. I don't have that problem up here except for shade requiring plants like hostas. Right now none of them cares at all since we are not even going to get to zero today. Very cold up here this winter.


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AH, OK, that makes sense. My husband worked down there for a year, he's a civie for the military, MEPCOM. (should have known since it's a topic about Texas... but then topics don't always stay on topic ;-))
Pam


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RE: the sun

you guys are gonna love this. I just looked up my last frost date. feb 11-20.

low of 49 tonight, but 2 days ago the low was in the 70s.

I love florida

I shall now cover my head and run.


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RE: the sun

  • Posted by esox07 4b Wisconsin (My Page) on
    Thu, Feb 27, 14 at 22:09

Judo: You better run. If I can get my truck started in this cold weather, I may just drive down there.
Bruce


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RE: the sun

I might as well throw gasoline on this fire. I looked up my first frost date. jan 1-10.

my 5 day forecast:


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As I have said before, gardening in Florida and SO. California is like cheating in the final exam and getting an A++.

Well, On the other hand I shouldn't complain much. This Sat. it is going to dip to 32F, then back to normal ( i.e, mid 30s <<>> high 40s). We are the blooms country. Bulbs blooming and continue till the end of March.


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Hey quit whining Bruce, you got it easy, temp -5 and wind chill -5... in OK, a temp of 20 will give you a wind chill of -5. ;-) I read once that settlers used to go insane listening to the howling wind, and I can see why, there's been times I could have. Stupid song, "wind comes sweeping down the plain", bs, it comes roaring down the plain like a freight train running out of hell. We joke that temps in the 20's would feel great if not for the wind trying to blow you off your feet.
Pam


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Give me the 20's and the wind. It hasn't been that warm here for weeks, wind or no wind. No immediate end in sight either.

Of course there is always wind on the plains. It sings to you once you get used to it. When it stops you better be heading for cover. Lull before the storm is a true thing.

This year I don't expect to see frost out before the end of April around here to even get started on gardening outside.


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RE: the sun

  • Posted by esox07 4b Wisconsin (My Page) on
    Fri, Feb 28, 14 at 10:58

AAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!


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RE: the sun

don't get too upset now. come july and august, when you guys are loaded down with pods, and the 100+ degree heat leaves my peppers looking like ugly shrubbery surrounded by piles of dropped buds, it evens out.

so how much does shade cloth cost?


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RE: the sun

  • Posted by esox07 4b Wisconsin (My Page) on
    Fri, Feb 28, 14 at 13:05

Believe me Judo, I already have my calendar marked with a link to your post. Come about July 20th, I am going to to be PM'ing you with pictures of big, bushy, green, succulent, pod producing plants. Oh, any maybe a copy of our forecast as well.
Photobucket
Bruce


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Lmao at bruce. Hopefully it won't be a 30 day forecast when you realize fall is right at your doorstep. :P

Kevin


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RE: the sun

  • Posted by esox07 4b Wisconsin (My Page) on
    Fri, Feb 28, 14 at 13:17

Woohooman: You didn't just bring up next fall already? Did you? OK, fine, I have you on my calendar as well.
Photobucket
Bruce


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RE: the sun

LOL.. no problem here in SoCal Bruce. You've seen my harvests. Hell! I still have 3 superhots putting out a few peppers from LAST season. Only thing that holds me back is the water bill.

It is FINALLY raining here though! Woohoo! Still won't be enough the rest of winter to keep the water districts from raising rates this summer though.

Kevin


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RE: the sun

  • Posted by esox07 4b Wisconsin (My Page) on
    Fri, Feb 28, 14 at 13:29

Yep, aside from the necessary watering, there probably isn't a much better climate in the US for growing peppers...mabye S. Florida.
Bruce


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Bruce,
don't get me wrong, those temperatures are not outrageous to me. I'm not originally from San Antonio, but from just south of the polar circle (not a joke). So I know cold and long winters, trust me :)

It's just that now, when I'm here and most of the days are warm enough for my peppers to be outside, it annoys me if the temperatures start swaying around. Simply because my preggo butt is too lazy to carry the plants in and out every day :)

And Judo is right, just wait until mid summer when we're back here whining about how everything is getting scorched while you guys are enjoying your harvests :)


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RE: the sun

  • Posted by esox07 4b Wisconsin (My Page) on
    Fri, Feb 28, 14 at 20:05

Just been a long cold winter up here and getting tired of it. At least I got remote start put on my truck today.
Photobucket
Bruce


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RE: the sun

Don't worry about a 28F overnight temp so long as you cover the plant all the way down to the ground. The mass of soil holds quite a bit of heat and will keep the air above warm(ish). In Dec. I had a batch of in-ground and potted plants survive plunges into the teens with a sheet and tarp cover. A few leaves got bit where they were pressed up to the cover but everything else was fine. It's the extended cold that would eventually kill them as the heat from the soil dissipated.

Dennis


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RE: the sun

Agree with DMF, but for seedlings I would think a different story. 1st, thyey're young and don't have the roots to support extremes. 2nd, smaller pots means less ability for the soil to hold warmth.

JMO

Kevin


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RE: the sun

Well, the tomato at this time is about 25in tall and in its final pot. So not exactly baby anymore, I'm thinking. I had it uncovered for a few days and was hoping that all was behind me, but now the cover is back up and will probably stay there until Thursday /sigh/.

Anyway, sorry, it looks like I highjacked the thread by accident.


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Aint much passed 20* today,currently 13* and 30 for high on Mon.
We've had sleet,snow and freezing "stuff" all day
In the West Texas desert


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TNKS,
Was out in shorts and no shirt yesterday morning 'till 9:23 AM when the "blue" norther hit. Damn near froze my nips 'fore I could make it back to the house. Was 32 degrees by noon, and had freezing rain on an off all afternoon. Now I gotta buy more propane for the GH. Cussin' now, but I'll look back this summer and say, "sure could use one of those northers today..."


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haha, yep, it's cold everywhere today. Yesterday it didn't make it out of the teens, sleet all day (snow all last night). I went out in the greenhouse a few times yesterday and with 4 heaters going it was around 50. I knew there was no way my plants would survive the low of 4 this morning and was panicking. We finally went out and moved all of the flats (over 100) into a 10 x 10 ft area, closed each end off with plastic and put the 4 heaters inside. This morning, the unprotected part of the greenhouse was 32 (pretty impressive I'd say) and inside the protected area it was 66. I think we just dodged the bullet, hopefully the last one for this winter.... and... yeha, the univ. of Tulsa (where I work) is closed today! They NEVER close!
Pam


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Nearly froze your nips off, eh?

It got down to 18 here last night after 81 on Sat. Fortunately (in one sense) there is nearly continuous weather forecasting coverage here. Like they're obsessed with the subject or something (tornadoes will to that to you, I guess) and we had plenty of warning to bring in the plants.

I heard the lamest excuse yet for this cold weather being "proof" of global warming. Seems that winters have been so warm recently (due to global warming) that we have forgotten what a real winter is like. Well, it they're referring to the Little Ice Age, then they may have a point...

Dennis - wrapped in furs and mukluks


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RE: the sun

  • Posted by esox07 4b Wisconsin (My Page) on
    Mon, Mar 3, 14 at 13:14

It was -20 F here last night. At noon, it is all of 8 degrees.
Photobucket
Bruce


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RE: the sun

kuvaszlvr,
My GH is designed to keep the interior 20 degrees warmer than the outside air. It was low twenties last night with 30 MPH wind, and the recording thermostat indicated that it got to 41 inside. I like to keep it at 50. Above that and it eats propane like a Chinese wok. Some of the seedlings got a bit droopy, but now that the sun is out and it's 70 inside, they've perked up. Good idea about putting a cover inside the GH. Next year I'm gonna put another wall inside the outside wall and see how dead air will keep the temp up. I'll lose a little space, but I can live with that...


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DMForcier,
Gotta break out my pasties next time I go shirtless outside. Maybe the tassels will ward off 'skeeters.
I worked outside all my life, and starting about '93, the summers got hotter and the winters got warmer, plus the rainfall was halved. Consequently, the bugs got worse too. Never used to have Japanese beetles here, but now, they're everywhere.
IMHO, CC is real, and it's gonna get increasingly dry and hot down here in Texas. When I was a kid, we didn't have A/C, and we slept on a "sleeping porch" under "mosquito bars." It NEVER got over a hundred for weeks at a time like it does now.
Oh well, I can look forward to having the coastline significantly closer the next time I want shrimp and oysters...


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Yah, The old timers are fond of saying that the true defeat of the Dixie South came with air conditioning.

"It's the one thing that lets them damn Yankees come down here and live."

Yep.


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Being a geologist and studying paleoclimate (in millions of yrs vs the last few) I'm not conviced yet. The climate is constantly changing with or without us. Plus, geologists have known for decades that we are in an interglacial period. So, you would expect warming (since we are coming out of one of the coldest periods in earth's history) but, also, being in a interglacial, it means there's a potential to return to a glacial period. I will take global warming any day over that, a warm planet is a productive planet (look at the Mesozoic) a cold planet.. well, you need look no further than the little ice age.

Dennis, you are so bad (boy I say that a lot ;-)). yeah, you should hear our weather people, they've been frothing at the mouth over our recent winter storm. It was supposed to get into the 20's today but didn't get out of the teens.

My greenhouse usually keeps temps about 30degrees above the outside temps, that's why I was so worried about single digits.

Tom, you might want to try bubble wrap. My friend uses it and she can keep her 10' x 24' greenhouse in the low 70's with 1 heater and temps in the 20's. She swears by it. I would put it up, but it's so much work. So, you have propane heat? We are thinking of converting to propane next year. How does it do? what is your set up?
Pam


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RE: the sun

kuvaszlvr,
36K BTU Hot Dawg propane heater with a 150 gallon tank. This is the third year of using it, and it's been great. Weighs about 75 lbs. and has a fan that throws the heat 24' to the end of the GH. All solid state. Got it at Greenhouse Megastore in Minn. Pretty easy install too. You need a separate thermostat too. Here's a pic of the install.
Never thought of using bubble wrap. I was considering using cheap 4 mil HD plastic on the inside and just stapling it to the columns and top 2X8 beams. Can't put it on the roof, 'cause I run the celling fans 24/7 to move the warm air around.


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Had to winch it up and put the four mounting bolts in the top. For some reason DW wouldn't stand underneath and stabilize it while I was on the ladder... ;-)


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Finished install with AC, gas, and flue pipe. Had to put a hardware cloth barrier over the front to keep birds from building nests in the opening. I wrap it in row cover during the summer to keep the dirt-daubers and wasps from building nests in it.


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OH MY DEAR GOD! That thing is massive. How big is your greenhouse? Sounds commercial! But, curious, since heat rises, why not on the ground instead of at the top? hahaha, that's way way more than what I wanted. I figured I'd rent a propane tank (I'd get the propane guys out to tell me what they think I need) and get a couple of the small tank heaters (15000 BTU). Sheesh, the plumbing alone for that must of cost thousands. Plus, how is it your wood looks so nice? it must be new. I even use treated lumber in my greenhouse and it still turns black in a few years. That wood looks like it hasn't seen a drop of moisture. How about some more pics of the greenhouse (very sorry, I'm really trying to take this subject off topic. ;-)
Pam


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> "Never used to have Japanese beetles here, but now, they're everywhere. "

Where are you?

When I first moved to Atlanta ('96), the Japs were horrible. The first year I literally overflowed a one gallon trap part way into the season. The population has steadily declined until last year i snagged no more than a dozen or two all year. I have no idea why.


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Pam, I'm right there on climate change. Yes the climate seems to be changing. But we know that the climate has always changed and always will. The leap to, "It's all our fault and we had better ruin the economy now to stop it," is just too far. Most likely we couldn't affect it anyway.

I recall seeing a long-term (several hundred thousand years) chart of CO2 levels taken from Antarctic ice cores. The levels fluctuated wildly and obviously had nothing to do with us.

And yes, given the choice I will take a warmer world. In terms of global agriculture it is reported that a higher temp would be a net plus.

Tom, what a GH! Do you rent out bench space?

Dennis


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kuvaszlvr,
It's 12' X 24' inside the GH area, with an 8 X 12' work area on the north end, and an 8X32' deck along the east side. The sides and ends roll up so we can use it as a deck in the warmer months. Used treated for ground contact and columns, and the rest is just pine and cedar with Thompson's Water Seal. Actually, it was a lot cheaper than the metal framed ones. The flue pipe is cheap too. It's three years old. The roof is Palram polycarb you can buy at Home Depot. The wiring is all in EMT or polyflex. It helps to have AutoCAD when you're designing. ;-)
Hung the heater from the ceiling to save floor space.


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Tom, I LOVE your setup. Greenhouses can look quite.. well... ugly....at times. But you've managed to make it a part of your yardscape. Very nice!


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DMForcier,
We're in Bastrop County Texas about 20 miles east of Austin. We started noticing Japanese beetles about 5 years ago when the droughts started getting worse. Worse the drought, more beetles. Then we started using systemic insecticide and traps on our roses for control.
Lemme tell yuh, DW fills that sucker up with tropical like Bouganvillas and hibiscus in pots on the floor, and hanging baskets down either side. Last count we had 38 ground pots and 40 hanging baskets. I barely have room for my propagator.
When we roll the sides up for the spring and summer, I hang a cypress swing from the ceiling trusses and drink beer. We share the space with a few foxes that like the shade too...


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RE: the sun

  • Posted by esox07 4b Wisconsin (My Page) on
    Tue, Mar 4, 14 at 19:44

We had them in swarms the first fall that I lived in my current house (Wisconsin-2007). SInce then, they have been declining here as well to almost none. They are likely a cyclical insect and their populations rise and fall over time.
Bruce


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Wow! Really nice setup Tom. Makes me ashamed of my greenhouse. Here we live in the country and I never see a fox, see coyotes, tons of skunks, etc etc, but no foxes. :-(
Pam


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Coyotes eat them.

And everything else.

(Except, apparently, skunks.)


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RE: the sun

  • Posted by esox07 4b Wisconsin (My Page) on
    Wed, Mar 5, 14 at 13:05

Yep, coyotes are very prolific and adaptable at the expense of a lot of other species to include the neighborhood dogs.
Bruce


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RE: the sun

Well, I'm pretty sure that my poor loner who had to be left outside didn't make it. I'm quite upset about it given the progress I had achieved.. It was good 3-4 weeks ahead in size compared to anything I can get now. Which cuts down on suitable timing for flower set :(


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RE: the sun

kuvaszlvr,
Form follows function. If it works, it's beautiful. This is my third one.
I like coyotes. They're much more elusive that fox and are really scary of humans. Used to be a native wolf around here, the Red Wolf, but nobody's seen one for 20 years.
I think the chupacabras around here eat the skunks...


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RE: the sun

I like coyotes too! I love to listen to them when they crank it up, although I have livestock guard dogs and they really get agitated when the coyotes start to howl. They tend to ruin the moment with their barking. I love wolves too. Too bad about your red wolves. Keep saying we're going to go up to Yellowstone some winter for the wolf watching tour.

hahaha, we need some chupacabras around here. A few years ago I saw a mother skunk walking along our fence line being trailed by 6 babies, they were so cute waddling along.
Pam


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