In my opinion, bagged peat-based soils hold too much moisture.
I prefer to base my mix on an ingredient that is durable and free-draining, like Fir bark.
Then I add ingredients to increase moisture retention without compromising drainage -
ingredients such as perlite, pumice, or turface.

In the stores mentioned, you probably won't find pumice or turface, but perlite (course grade)
and bark should be available. I'd start with 5 parts bark, 1 part perlite, and 1 part potting soil.

Additives: to provide calcium, I add 1 tablespoon of Dolomitic Garden Lime per gallon of soil.
I also add the recommended dose of Osmocote 4-month slow release fertilizer when mixing soil.

Josh

I used to mix my own ( got to be too much work as I usually have a couple hundred pots going) but for years have used Pro Mix Bx or Fafard with good success. I don't think they hold too much water as I often have to water daily.

fiedlermeister, which Fafard do you use?

I would agree with Greenman 100%. Stick with that advice and you will do fine.

I buy the seed starting bricks at Home Depot. They expand to 8 quarts! I use one quart to half compost and half potting mix. dd

kosherbaker

I don't remember. They are all similar. You can Google to find the specific composition of each. My local greenhouses use Pro Mix but, again,Fafard is quite similar.

Here is a link that might be useful: My results

I tried the mix-my-own route but given my genetic disorder that causes me to grow more peppers than I can easily manage, I gave up (I was getting to the point where I contemplated buying a portable cement mixer to mix my potting medium).

Based on fiedlermeister's untouchable track record growing amazing plants, I switched to Pro-Mix BX years ago after finding out that is what he used. I've yet to find a reason to try anything else.

FWIW,

Bill

p.s. I promised the GF only 10 pots this year. I think I'll be able to get it down to 45-48... she'll never notice the few extras, right?

I dont have a place around here that sells Pro-Mix BX. I am pretty much limited to Scotts and Miracle Gro products. I just need specific suggestions about which varieties of those products would work best and in combination with what other additives.
That Pro-mix BX stuff sounds good though.

I dont grow all season long in pots, but i use potting soil to keep my plants alive and growing before i plant em in ground.

I use

Pine Mulch
Scotts moisture advantage
Miracle grow potting mix
Miracle grow organic choice

all mixed in equal quantities. so far , so good. All my plants are in 18 oz, pots so far and under flourescent lighting, and i have to water them about once every 4 to 5 days.

Happy growing
Jim

esox07,

Where are you located? Most agriculture supplier / garden centers carry Pro-Mix around my parts, north eastern NA (if you count NY and Ont east).

Your profile says zone 4? Where?

Bill

I used Miracle Gro last year in my containers. I add whatever I
have on hand and mix it in. You can add bonemeal, any kind
of fertilizer ,10-10-10 is fine. You can also mix in some
compost. If you can find the Pro-Mix, it is a good product.
I will be mixing Pro-Mix and Miracle Gro in some of my containers
this summer.

ottawapepper:
I am in just south of central wisconsin.

I found the Manufacturer of ProMix and it had a link to find outlets. Sad to say, nothing close to me.

Score for me! I found a relatively local supplier of ProMix today and picked up a bale. I'm anxious to compare it to my last home-made blend of everything sold at Home Depot.

OK I got this link in another forum and thought I'd post it here. Some amazing info for us container gardners:
Container Gardening Info

Rudy

Esox07, I am far from an expert on container mixes, but I can completely relate to having limited choices, as I live in a very small town. Even in a town of 2,500, we have a couple of locally owned nurseries, and I have gotten to know the owners over the last few years. Last year, since I was a regular customer (before I started growing most everything from seed anyway) the owner ordered a large bag of Fafard germinating mix for me, when she was ordering supplies for her own greenhouses. It might be worth a try anyway ...

Bonnie

Thanks for all the replies and discussion. I still working at this and hope to find a solution before these thing have to go to their permanent containers.

Most of my stuff goes right into the ground, but I've had excellent results with the Miracle Gro Organic potting mix (in the brown bag). It's got much less peat than standart MG, and more bark, etc. It's definitely coarser and more well drained.

Hi,

Esox07, we use Fafards 52 mix...love it!! Its quite a barky mix and is used specifically for large perennial pots and containers. We get our supply from Lensmires in Stevens Point, for years now. We have moved up to Glidden WI and will certainly be doing a road trip for this stuff...wonderful, and will not change to another mix for our large containers. Check them out...there just off of Bus 51...technically in Plover.

2 parts MG potting mix to 1 part perlite or a 50/50 mix of peat/perlite + osmocote works great IME.

5 parts bark is for those that want to water daily (in hot weather) or have an automated watering system. I'm disabled so watering daily is not an option. I have an automated system for the garden but not yet for containers. The problem with this is you would have to arrange the containers in a similar way every year unless you were going to buy new hose every year. That's not an option for me either.

Well, I'm going with the 5-1-1 mix that Greenman29 (josh) recommends. I could not find Fir Bark (Orchid Bark) but I did find a landscape outfit that had fine ground pine mulch. I bought a good half yard of it for $15. Just yesterday I transplanted 13 plants into 6" tall by 6" high pots using that recipe. I will be using the same recipe but with a shot of a little lime for the final plantings in outdoor containers. I think I will be putting my Bhut Jolokia's in my garden on stilts. It is a raised bed on legs 8' long by 2' wide. I have three Bhuts that will go in there and all the other varieties will go in containers in the front yard. I want to keep the Bhuts from cross pollinating so I can harvest some seeds for next year if I like what I get this year.

Great job of putting the ingredients together, Esox!

Taz, the bark-mix holds quite a bit of moisture....I don't water daily in hot weather,
although the mix *can* be watered daily without the fear of root-rot.

Josh

Esox or Josh are you guys saying that Orchid Bark is fir bark and can be used in the mix recipies that was recomended. Because I could not find "fir bark" at the home depot, or lowes but I did find orchid bark. Will that work? Thanks
Jesse

Jesse,
Josh is probably the one to answer this but from what I understand, they (Orchid Bark and Fir Bark) are one in the same. Just be careful because you will see an Orchid Mix and that is not the same. Orchid mix is fir bark with several other ingredients. Fir Bark or Orchid Bark has no other ingredients. Just be sure it is "Fine" ground.

Also, if you have found Fir Bark or Orchid Bark at home depot, please let me know the specifics on the product. I have been there a couple times asking about it and each time they look at me like I am asking for gold plated dog crap.
Bruce

Hello, I live in a very hot climate with dry air, zone 9b. I am curious about how this mix performs in 100 degree weather?

Is it best to have maximum drainage and water frequently? I have plants in the ground and in large terracotta pots (15" give or take). They are in very soil heavy mix with manure and redwood mulch. moisture retentive mix, although it is hard to tell with this cool weather.

Can I use redwood mulch/compost for this mix? My soil is potentially highly alkaline, if that matters, but I have grown pepps in it successfully.

I thought orchid bark was pine bark fines.

Hey, folks!

"Orchid Bark" is Fir Bark, as far as I know.
But Pine Bark fines are even better than Fir because Pine is slightly more durable and resists decomposition...
which means that it will last longer in a container without compacting and compromising oxygen.

Lately, I've been reading about the Fafard "Nursery" mix, which is Bark, peat moss, and perlite.
If you can find this particular bagged soil, you can save yourself the trouble of sourcing ingredients
and mixing. I'm not sure how the price would compare, however.

Phil, you nailed it. It's best to have excellent drainage in a container, and simply water more often.
Bark holds plenty of moisture, and so will the perlite (in its outer pores). By adding in a portion of
peat moss or potting soil, you bridge the gaps between the larger particles - which is what increases the
moisture retention. In an incredibly hot or dry climate, you *can* modify the mix to find a balance
between proper drainage and adequate moisture retention.

A free-draining mix might *seem* to dry out quickly in the upper inches, but there's quite a bit of moisture
down below. To test this, place a skewer or chopstick into the container, and check moisture as you would
check for oil. When the skewer comes out dry, it's time to water. And when you water, water thoroughly.

Josh

Good, thanks for the reply Greenman. I am really glad to hear that Redwood mulch is effective as it is very cheap around here. I already have a couple cubic yards, that is almost enough right there.

I am concerned about fertilization though, I am already spending money I should put towards books on repotting with this mix, I can't commit to buying various fertilizers to keep the plants nourished. I do have MG Tomato Food already.

Could i ammend them with enough steer manure (free) to avoid fertilizing without compromising drainage? Do I need to adjust PH the same with very hard, basic water/soil?

No, I wouldn't recommend any steer manure at all.
The manure will absolutely compromise drainage once the percentage increases.
I'd stick with the chemical fertilizers because it allows you to fertilize at
the lowest doses, while still maintaining full nutrition. Trying to balance
nutrients by building up the soil is a crap-shoot (pardon the pun).

I haven't used redwood. How large are the pieces?
The optimal particle size for bark is between fine dust and 1/2 an inch.

To adjust pH downward, I add white vinegar (acid) to my water.

Josh

The redwood compost I have right now is a good mix of about that size range, some are up to an inch, with few larger chunks that could be picked out. Although, it is extremely hot here in June through August, might it be better to leave the chunks for added drainage?

My garden is my front patio so I can water once to twice a day without issues.

When I use this compost to mulch the surface of my soil it is fairly non-porous and runs through into the dirt for a while before soaking into the wood, is that alright? Do you just use that much water?

The larger the bark, the faster the water will pass through.
Smaller bark will hold moisture more consistently. Save the large pieces
for use as a mulch on top of the soil or in raised beds.

When I water, I water until a good amount exits the drainage holes, yes.

Watering habits will change depending on the size and color of a container,
as well as the exposure (full blazing afternoon sun, et cetera). In a large
container, you shouldn't have to water more than once a day - if that.

Josh

Pine should be overly acidic, can I hope that my 8.0+ ph water will counter that and skip buying the PH balancers that people with acidic water need?

Thanks again for all the help.

Let me give it a hesitant 'I think so' ;-)

In containers, there is an alkaline creep - which often necessitates a flushing.
If you want to get fancy, soak some of your potting mixture, drain the water
and test the pH. If it's 5.0 or better, you're good to go. If it's 3.5, you'll
want to add some Dolomitic Garden Lime to bring the pH up.

The recommendation for bark-based mixes is to add
1 Tablespoon of Lime per gallon of soil.

Josh

I might do that if the tests are cheap enough. If not, My garden is enclosed in concrete around all sides, which would also contribute significantly to the PH of the soil. And the water is known to be up to 8.5 here from year to year, so I may just skip the boosters.

Are there clear and early signs if the PH were to be too low? And do I need to worry about shocking the plants if they have been in the alkaline soil for a couple weeks and I transition to this mix and drop the PH?

Almost done drilling you with questions, Josh, I swear! :P

I got some coarse turface from my local garden supply. I skipped the lime, that stuff is pricey and my water is loaded with minerals.

They had orchid mix and that fir bark is much more round and pebble-like than the pine mulch, which has more splinters and sharp pieces, but a a lot of dust also. The pine mulch is the correct size but the shape difference concerns me.
Anyone have experience with redwood compost/mulch in this mix?

Wow! I am a little overwhelmed. I am growing peppers for the first time, this year. I wasn't planning on doing it, but I ordered some frozen New Mexico Green chile's from Hatch Chile.com and they sent me a packet of seeds so I decided to plant them. Being a total rookie, I went to home depot and left with a bag of compost soil, seed tray propagator system, and a bag of miracle grow starter soil. I planted 50 seeds, trying different methods of dry seeds, soaked seeds, and compost soil and the starter soil. Every combination worked 47 seeds germinated, and now I have 47 little seedlings. I have been doing a lot of research on the internet, and finally found you guys. I went to a Green Thumb Nursery here in the San Diego area (San Marcos, CA) to get some more advice on the next step, as I am planning on keeping them in containers, and eventually into a portable greenhouse to keep the rabbits and squirrels from destroying them. Anyway, the guy at the Nursery loaded me up with, a bag of Green All soil booster it is a mixture of fir bark, chicken manure, composted mushroom soil, earthworm castings, volcanic pumice stone, bat guano, kelp meal, and feather meal. I am not ready to transplant them into individual pots yet, but I would like to research before the time comes. Does anyone have any experience with the green all soil booster? can I use that alone, or do I need to mix with potting soil and perlite? Or, should I scrap the green all, and mix my own according to greenman's orchid bark mixture? Then, what should I use for fertilizer? the guy at the nursery sold me E.B. Stone Organics vegetable and tomato fertilizer and told me to mix that in the soil, and then when fertilizing to sprinkle on the top of the soil, and cover with a thin layer of earthworm castings, and to also mix some of the earthworm casting with water, then dilute that even more and use as spray on the plant. Since I am a first timer, any guidance would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Jon

Welcome, Jon!
First of all, credit should go to Al (Tapla) for the Bark soil recipe.
Basically, the Bark is a filler, which takes the place of peat in the mix.
Bark is acidic, like peat, but it is much more structurally durable.
Also, the large particles help air to return to the mix, ensuring good root-health.

I have not used Greenall, but I like some of the ingredients - bark and pumice.
I would add a good amount of Perlite to that mix, though. I'm not sure about all the organics
included, as I prefer to fertilize at low, frequent dose with a chemical fertilizer.

One thing to note is that your weather will allow you to use soils that are slightly heavier
(more moisture retentive) than the soils I'd recommend for folks in cold, northern climates.
In other words, I'd be more concerned if you were growing in that mix in Canada ;-)

Josh

Josh,

Thanks for the advice. Any thoughts on how much perlite to add to the GreenAll? like a 1/1 ratio, less or more? Should I add the Dolotomic Lime, and Oscomite as well, according to your earlier posts?

Since I have so many seedlings, I was going to use organic fertilzer on some, and chemical fertilizer on others, and keep records of what works best. I have been keeping records on a spreadsheet on the germination, so I can track each seed from germination to fruit production, or death (hopefully not too many!).

Thank you so much for your advice, I have seen pics of your plants, and I hope I can come close to your success. Hopefully one day I will be able to contribute to the forum and pass on good advice to others.

Thanks again!

Jon

Hey, Jon, thanks!

It's hard to say how much Perlite to add without having the mix in hand.
Try a 1/1 ratio, just to see how it feels and how well it waters and drains.
If the soil seems too dense - too wet and peaty - add more Perlite.

I would skip the Osmocote, since you'll be fertilizing in the conventional manner.
Also, I think it's a great idea to experiment with organic and chemical fertilizers.
With the chemical fertilizers, use a lower dose more often (Weakly Weekly, as they say),
and I think you'll be very happy with the results. This will also help prevent any
build-up of fertilizer salts in the soil.

You could probably cut the amount of Dolomitic Garden Lime, as well.
Maybe use 1 teaspoon per gallon of mix, instead of 1 tablespoon.
If you notice the symptoms of Calcium deficiency in the future, you can
always scratch some of the Lime into the soil and water it in well.

Josh

Last year I did the same thing for my peppers that I've always done for my bucket tomato plant. I put oyster shells at the bottom, then mix equal parts Miracle Gro's Organic Garden Soil with MG's Organic Potting Mix, then also worked in a little bit of sand.

I'm no expert at this but it has always worked for my tomatoes and worked very well for the peppers last year.

Today I bought a Bond soil ph-moisture-light meter, because my tomato plant leaves are looking funny all of a sudden. Anyway, I am getting a very high Ph reading. The meter is reading a Ph level of almost 8. I bought the cheapest meter that the nursery had, but I am assuming it works. all of my containers were about the same Ph. Greenman suggests using white vinegar to bring down Ph. So, how do I apply the vinegar, and how much? Also, I just watered my plants today, so when should I apply the vinegar. I assume i will add vinegar to water, and then water the plants. But how much vinegar?

Jon

Hey, Jon, let me give you a short and a long answer ;-)

Short answer, add 1 teaspoon white vinegar per gallon of water when you water.

Long answer: start with a gallon of water, test it. Then begin adding vinegar
to the gallon of water until the pH is somewhere around 5.8 - take note of how
much vinegar you used, and then add that amount every time you water.

Josh

Awesome! Thanks Josh

Interesting read for the 2015 growing season.

LOL NECM,

I'm still sticking with my tried & true Pro-Mix BX. You just can't beat the root development using it.

I still recommend it but I know it can get a bit pricey for you folks in the US. It's still reasonably priced up here in Ontario.

Just my 2 cents ;-)

This post was edited by ottawapepper on Sat, Dec 13, 14 at 18:02

Interesting reading, indeed.
This thread started in early 2011. That is almost 5 years ago. I was not doing any container growing then. I started last year (2013) about this time, studying container growing. I did quite bit of reading , getting into discussions both here and in "Container Gardening" forum; So what I finally decided on was 5-1-1.

I did about 30 containers with 5-1-1 in 2014 season (Mostly peppers) and I have been happy with the results. So I am sticking wit 5-1-1. I will replenish my stuff in the pots by adding some fresh pine barks, Dolomitic lime and time release ferts.
So this coming season I am not going to run around (like 2014) to find the stuff, to mix ..etc. I have already bought 4 cu-ft of pine bark fines.

Cost had been a criterion for my. I thing I made it for about $0.40 per gallon (~ BUT, the thing about 5-1-1 is that there are NO standard pine/fir barks around. I was lucky to find it where I am at reasonable price ($4 / 2 cu-ft).

Seysonn

This thread started in early 2011. That is almost 5 years ago.

If we don't learn from history we're doomed to repeat it.