I've grown the Chilhuacle Negro.

Here's the description I copied into my seed inventory.

A dark brown Heirloom Chile. Looks like little leather bell peppers. Grown in Mexico's Oaxaca region. The dried chile ranges in color from chocolate brown to deep purple. It's used for "Mole Negro de Oaxaca". It's moderately hot and has a rich, fruity flavor.

Sorry, I forgot to add "they are only available every 10 yrs" sounds like marketing to move stock rather than reality.

I grew it two years in a row.

Thanks Ottawapepper. So, about how long before they produce fruit? Also, do you know why so many sites say "only grown in Oaxaca"? Doesn't make sense to me. So, do you give it a thumbs up?
Pam

"Only grown in X" is usually market speak for "Nobody else bothers to grow this commercially". "Only available every 10 years" to me sounds like market speak for "These are only grown occasionally as a gimmick".

Trust me, if it was good stuff, not only would they grow it every year, but every location with a half way suitable climate would be growing it as well.

Really have to pay attention to market speak. Don't listen to what they're saying so much as to what they're not saying. Like a pain reliever commercial will say "Nothing is stronger", what they aren't saying is "we're the strongest" because everything is the same strength. Waterguns shoot "up to 75 feet!", which if you actually look at it is listing a MAXIMUM distance. It could dribble out the barrel and it would still be correct as it did not go past 75 feet.

Hi Pam,

If I recall correctly, Chilhuacle Negro is in the 100 day range.

The only "true" Oaxaca peppers are the ones actually grown in the Oaxaca region. The same reason you "technically" can't grow a "true" Chimayo, Hatch, Piment d�Espelette etc. outside their respective regions. If you get true seeds, you'll be able to grow a reasonably close to exact version of the chile. You just wouldn't legally be able to sell produce as a "Oaxaca x"

Hitting submit to soon... I would give the Negro a thumbs up. I liked the flavour in a few moles I made. I was planning to grow it again last season but alas, my sole seedling didn't make it. This season I'm maxed out on ones I need to replenish seed stock on and a few varieties in my inventory I have yet to try.

Bill

Thanks for the info guys. Interestingly, I have found a couple of sites that speak highly of the peppers. I think I will try the Negro definitely, and if I don't like it you'll get the blame ottawapepper. ;-)

Oh great. Thanks Pam, now I have another reason to loose sleep!

Bill

p.s. you have mail

:-) No need to worry Bill, I've found very few peppers that I don't like (except maybe purple jalapeno). The Negro looks similar to a poblano and I've yet to meet a poblano variety that I didn't love.

btw, it's hard to believe that Bill is the only one in the group that has grown any of the 7 peppers, I know there's got to be more out there.

Pam

Welcome chocolateidea.

Thank you for sharing the Oaxaca chile information and recipe!

I have seen images of the Costeno Amarillo chile but have not grown it yet. I have grown the red Chile Costeno. Can you comment on how it is traditionally used?

Bill

Hi chocolateidae! Thank you so much for your information! Now I know to put de agua and Costeno amarillo on the top of my list!

I'm waiting to hear about Chile Costeno!

One question, you say to flame the chile (always done with dried chiles)... I assume you can also flame them fresh?

Actually I have never seen the red Chile Costeno in the markets. I will ask my Oaxacan expert this Saturday and get back to you. A chile that we get here that is very interesting is the "canary" chili. A fresh yellow pepper that has black seeds - I've read it is a perennial. worth looking for seeds.

...also Craig at Redwood states on the flyer, they are only available every 10 yrs. Why is that? I was considering buying the collection, but I wanted to find out some info on them first. So, does anyone have any knowledge or experience with these peppers? Any info would be greatly appreciated.
I do some testing (for pungency) for Craig now and again. In fact I tested some of the Oaxacan dries mentioned here (most were mildly pungent). Anyway, he indicates that some of these peps have been available to him every decade or so because he could only acquire them in Oaxaca, not because they can only be grown every decade. Craig also told me that some of these dried peps are fetching premium prices for reasons that he could not explain. So maybe try to grow out a few plants and save their seeds if the peps are worthy.
Reggie

chocolateidea, thank you for offering to check with your Oaxacan expert.

The Canary chili sounds like a yellow Rocoto, black seeds / C. pubescens.

You read right, all peppers are perennial, it's just that a lot of people treat them as annuals due to their colder climate.

Thanks again,

Bill

from oaxaca
checked with a couple of local cooks. Seems I've been overlooking the red chili costeno. Seems it's everywhere and considered here a cheap everyday chili. nothing very interesting. seldom used for salsa because there are so many better chilis at the same price. They would more often use the pasilla -dried, the habanero-fresh, the canario (fresh) or something else more interesting. It is used in a basic stew or soup but everybody seemed to think - acceptable but not wonderful. We use the pasilla - a dried chilaca a lot. Plant this if you want the taste of Oaxaca. One way to eat it is as a chili relleno with plantain (here called platano macho) inside but also with picadillo(spiced pork or chicken with perhaps fruit and tomatoes) inside.
Always we quickly run the dried chilies over a flame. amazingly this makes them quite soft. Then they are usually soaked in water for a short while.
If trying to recreate the taste of Oaxaca use the fresh serrano for green salsa. So grow some tomatillos. One of our favorites here and served as a table salsa or on chiliquiles con salsa verde. The tomatillos are prepared 3 different ways - raw in a green salsa, boiled in water with just about any chili, and sliced in half and roasted dry in a skillet (especially with a smoked chili)We often dry roast the onion and garlic used in salsas. This makes the taste smoother.

Wow, thanks for following up. To be honest, I used my red Costeno for flakes and for adding some heat to soups. I didn't use it for mole or salsa.

The Canario you reference is the Canary you mentioned earlier, correct?

Just wondering, did your chefs offer any recipes? Just asking... hint... hint ;-)

Bill

p.s. I'm growing 2 tomatillo plants this year, love them!

I second WOW Thanks chocolateidea! I think I am going to increase my 2 tomatillo plants to 5 or 6, I've got toma verde, gigante, purple, and pineapple. I was only growing the gigante and purple, (selling the rest) until now.

I've got a dumb question, one of the ways you said you prepare tomatillos is boiled in water with any chile- then what do you do with them? just eat them or mix them with something? I never thought of roasting one, I've always just used them raw in salsas.

Howdy all, I love reading speculations about the rarity of seeds, so let me tell you a story about these rare peppers from Oaxaca. These varieties are only grown in the Oaxaca area, and the only way to get seeds to plant here in the USA is to have someone physically visit the open markets there, pack up the dried pods, ship them Expressmail to the USA where the seeds are extracted, and the commercial seed company will then wash, dry and test for germination, and package for sale. These traditional pepper seed varieties are not normally available from seed companies in Mexico, and all of the seeds are saved each year by the farmers themselves. . These peppers are so rare currently within Oaxaca, less than an ounce of the De Agua pepper seed was only available in the market, and the market seller would only sell us a couple of kilos of the Chilhuacle Amarillo pods a few months ago. These dried peppers are so valuable in Mexico, that when they are imported into the USA, they are going for $25-300 per pound here, for peppers that are as easy to grow as bell peppers. Search any of the names of these dried peppers on Google, and add the words "pound" and "price", and you will see what I mean. These dried peppers might be the most valuable legal crop you could grow in the USA, and I am surprised that farmers in the USA have not planted 100s of acres to sell to the Mexican food product markets and the fancy restaurants in California and the Southwest. These rare peppers each make a distinctive mole sauce, and I hope that someone will start growing them here in the USA, so we can have a regular supply to enjoy.

Thanks for the story (I assume this is Craig from Redwood- where I purchased all of my Oaxaca seeds, and they are coming up and looking good!), I'm definitely going to print this off and keep it for future reference.
Pam

I'm looking for Chile de Agua peppers myself. Does anyone know of a place to get them currently or have a few seeds they'd be willing to share ?

Just posted this in another forum -
I grew this for the first time last year and I was thrilled with the results. These are very rare peppers that you can't easily find outside of Oaxaca in Mexico. The few onlinevendors of the dried pepper sell them for an exorbitant price (over $100 a pound).
They are not good fresh. Keep them on the plant until they are a deep brown and then dry them. I use a Nesco vegetable dryer. When thoroughly dry the are leathery and thin skinned.

I have used them for mole only, but have produced the best mole I've ever had outside of Mexico. They have a full, smooth flavor that can't be beat. I am sure that you can use them for other sauces and powder them for dry rubs, but this will not bring out their full potential. They are not good raw.

Both Rick Bayless of Frontera fame and the gringa doyenne of Mexican cooking Diana Kennedy have good recipes. The best that I have tried is the mole negro recipe in Kennedy's Oaxaca al Gusto - an English language cookbook, though it doesn't sound it.

I am sure that there are only a handful of people growing and drying these in the US. My wife teases me and says that I should become the tycoon of locally-sourced chilhuacle pepper when I retire from my job as middle school principal. Now if I could only find a way to grow huitlacoche, one of my other Mexican culinary obsession.

By the way, you can get the seeds and seedlings from Cross County Nurseries in southern New Jersey. You'll have a hard time finding a chile variety that they don't carry.

E mail me about Chile De Agua seeds if you are still looking.

PS.
Peppermania used to sell almost all of the listed varieties.
I got a Chile De Agua plant from the nursery up the street.
Only one I haven't grown is Chiltepec.

Most of Redwoods seeds are from a grower in Maxwell Ca.

This post was edited by smokemaster_2007 on Mon, Sep 15, 14 at 16:00

Oaxaca pepper seeds may be available again in the USA. A seed collector living in Mexico will be visiting the Oaxaca markets by October, 2014 and may be able to send some seeds of the unique peppers that are grown in Oaxaca to the USA.

If anyone in the USA is able to get ahold of seeds of any of these Oaxaca varieties, and grows and enjoys these peppers, you should ALWAYS COLLECT some seed for planting the next year.

The reason is because the supplies are so infrequent out of Mexico for these seeds, it is best to save some seeds yourself, instead of depending on seed companies to have them available for you on a regular basis.

I got seeds of Chilhacle Rojo frome a generous member here and I will grow a plant coming season. Sounds more like slim Poblano.
I am going to use it mostly in half life stage, as my growing condition is not favorable for ripening a 100 DTM.

Seysonn

currj,
"the gringa doyenne of Mexican cooking Diana Kennedy"
Wonder if she's kin to the Kennedys that have run El Gallo in Austin Texas for the past 60 years? There's a whole passel of'em...

There's a seller of Oaxaca peppers on Ebay, 8-10 for $10.00 shipped. If they still have the seeds inside it sounds like a good deal. You get to sample them before they grow :-)

A bit late to the party on this thread, but I grow the chilhaucle amarillo chilli peppers and can swap seeds in the fall. I buy various exotic hot pepper plants from chileplant.com and have absolutely nothing but good experiences from them.

I also have habanero, scotch bonnet, golden cayenne, bhut jolokia and Trinidad chocolate scorpion plants that should allow me plenty of seeds at the end of the season.

I only have one experience with seed exchange here and a fairly discourteous one at that. Someone wanted lotus seeds and I sent an entire pod of seeds from my water garden. I did not so much as receive an email stating they were received, although I tracked them and know they were. With that being said, I have no issue with sending seeds again. I have a fairly large amount in my garden and always happy to share what I have. Would be most happy to swap for something I do not have.

Happy growing and I definitely recommend chileplant.com. I've only purchased live plants and all have grown and have onset of buds up to fruiting.

Craig Dremann from Redwood City Seed Company again. In reply to "Most of Redwoods seeds are from a grower in Maxwell Ca." is that we have 50-60 pepper seeds, and we try to get them from the countries of origin whenever possible, so that the farmers who originated the pepper varieties, get some economic benefit from our company selling their seeds here in the USA.

If anyone in the future has any question about my seeds or why or how we do business, please call me directly at 650-325-7333 instead of speculating and spreading rumors? I would rather read on this website what I actually told someone, rather than a group trying to speculate what my business is doing?

And so far, have not been able to get the Oaxaca dried peppers directly from Mexico for bulk seeds for the last three years, and maybe not again for another 3-5 years. The current market price for the dried Chilhuacles in the USA today (November 2015) is $10.25 for 25 grams which is less than one ounce. In terms of rare peppers, if you cannot get seeds easily from a seed company, try the nursery that grows 500 kinds of pepper plants and ships from New Jersey, Cross Country Nursery. I always get nice quality plants from them.

I've been to Maxwel area and was told what I posted.

Your grower is close by...

Went to what was told to me to be YOUR and others source of seeds-FROM THE GROWER.

They told me they ONLY grow the peppers etc.

REDWOOD CITY/Eco seeds was told to me to be where I had to go to get their seeds from.

I'm NOT trying to give you crap about your seed sources or?

Just posting about MY experience.

You used to have a very large variety of seeds for sale.

I've got everything you have sold for YEARS.

Your selection sucks these days.

You used to be a source for a LOT of varieties.

Not anymore.

Very sad,I liked buying seeds from you in the past.

Craig Dremann from Redwood City Seed again:

The lack of varieties in commercial availability is not just from my company, but for the entire vegetable seed industry across the whole USA. Look at the latest (6th) edition of the Garden Seed Inventory, and see how many varieties were dropped from 1981 to 2004--several thousand. Then look at what is left, in many cases, when you look at the 325 hot pepper varieties available in 2004, 194 of those varieties were only available from one or two sources still.

When I started our business in 1972, I was the first seed company to intentionally preserve old fashioned vegetable varieties, and not offer any hybrids. Now many other companies have joined that effort, so that 8,494 varieties are still available commercially, but still hanging by a very slender thread are 4,226 vegetable varieties, still only available from one source.

And especially peppers are becoming a worldwide problem in the 21st century in obtaining or producing bulk seeds for resale, mainly because of restrictions of shipping seeds from country to country. For example, it is nearly impossible to ship bulk pepper or tomato seeds into Australia from any country, and Europe has had severe restrictions in place for a decade now.

The future may break down to packets only of a large number of pepper varieties being available from little backyard seed growers in the future, instead of companies like my wife Sue and mine selling packets of unusual varieties in the future.

Or unusual pepper plants, only from nurseries like Cross Country in New Jersey, who produce their own seeds for plant production. It will be like the book Fahrenheit-451 where if you wanted to keep a book around, you had to become the book. In the future, if you love the variety, you may be personally responsible for keeping that variety going each year?

That is where the seed diversity always started, with the small guys and gals. And we forget that seed companies themselves are a relatively new addition to agriculture, over the last 10,000 years of seed saving, seed companies only got started in the 1700s?

Whether you buy from my company or some other seed company, the thing to keep in mind, that out of the roughly 250 vegetable seed companies in the USA, there are still only a few dozen who are focusing on keeping as many of the old varieties still commercially available, so your money should go to those so that this important work can be supported.

Without someone doing the work of keeping the seeds available each year of our domesticated varieties of food plants, we would perish as a species from the planet.

I hope I didn't come off wrong.

I am a pepper addict.

I am the moderator of a seed bank of NON isolated seeds.

Over 1000 varieties.

My personal stash is over 5000 varieties,species and crosses of only non bell peppers.

MY stash is mine,the bank is the bank-2 separate things.

I buy seeds from vendors to keep MY seed stash pure.

Whatever I can't grow out in a timely manor (pure) I purchase from vendors.

Redwood was a vendor that dropped several varieties that no other vendor sold,or sells now.

You are a Vendor I purchased seeds from regularly for several years.

I guess I'm bummed out mostly because you dropped stuff I really liked to grow that nobody sold at the time,or now.

Especially with the current super hot and cross mania going on these days.

I still have your brochures from as far back as the early 2000's.late 1900's.

Back then Reimers seeds had a big collection but did and does people wrong.

You guys always were some one I recommended very often.

Your selection just isn't what it used to be.

Not any longer containing all the varieties only you provided to addicts like me.

Your prices can't be beat and your service is great!

Bring back some of the stuff you no longer sell if you can.

I am a loyal customer.

When I'm down to 1 seed from you that I can't replace if it didn't sprout I get bummed out.

Nobody else has it for sale or on the net for trade...

Smokemaster/Mike