great. from what I gathered from talking to people around here, it rains a little bit almost every day here.I've seriously watered my plants 3 times since I moved here.

I suppose I should have been more specific. they say 2 tbsp per gallon, is that what you use? the warning label makes it sound like getting it on your skin is a pretty big deal. is that overblown? it literally says wash hands thoroughly for 15-20 minutes, then call poison control. that sounds pretty scary to me for something I'm supposed to do every week.

I'd be lying if I said I hadn't considered getting some sevin for the rest of this season, and just trying to do it right next year. the beneficials aren't cutting it this year. no fault of their own really, I just didn't do things right from the beginning.

I saw and killed 2 baby caterpillars on my habanero while soaping my plants about a half hour ago. and when I say baby I mean like less than a quarter inch. like I say, I have good vision. I also saw an enormous moth fly away from my bhuts about 5 minutes later. I think we found the culprit. I need to look into BT. this is getting annoying, and pricy, really quickly. I'm already betting I'm gonna go out and find half of my habanero gone tomorrow. and the thing just set like 30 pods.

if you have any super hot peppers blend up 2 cups of peppers 2 cups of water and 2 teaspoons of dawn dish soap and blast them with a regular spray bottle if you have trouble getting it to spray you can hit a local hardware for degreaser spray bottle with the adjustable cap it allows you to spray thicker liquids i got mine at menyards .

Screw neem or any of the homemade concoctions.Buy lacewing eggs.

I agree robeb, but he might be wasting his money if he doesn't have PLANTS(beneficial attractors) to keep them around after the larvae grow up. He would need to just keep purchasing them and releasing them every month.

Judo: reread those instructions -- I believe it's FOUR TB/gal. As far as getting it on your skin, never hurt me. But some people are sensitive I suppose.

Also, not sure about that moth you saw.. the hawk and sphinx are nighttimers.

BT is cheap by most standards. 2-4 TEAspoons as opposed to the 4 TABLEspoons for spinosad(another caterpillar killer). Or, the 4 TB for neem..

I felt the same way when I first started gardening -- things went pretty well the 1st couple years. And then, the more I grew, the more problems I had... became frustrating. But now, with the knowledge I've obtained along with experience, I've learned that it's NEVER going to be PERFECT and I've gotten better at achieving my goals.

Kevin

Cold-pressed Neem Oil is the only type I use.
Spray at dusk or after the sun has passed, as Kevin mentioned, then rinse the following morning before the sun hits the plants again. I repeat the treatment three times, every three days, or until the infestation has abated.

Josh

Josh:

I know several people who rinse their plants with water a few hours after doing SOAP treatments. But wouldn't rinsing off Neem nullify the anti-feeding properties it possesses?

Kevin

can I do neem and BT on the same day? heck, can I mix them in the same spray bottle? I doubt it, but hey, I figured I'd ask.

yeah, I've never heard of rinsing it off after, that seems like it would defeat the point. but we all know I'm the noob here.

When I'm using more than one spray, I try to stagger weekly.

Why don't you do this--- hit with some insecticidal soap very 1st thing in the morn or right now if you get this post quickly..it's 7:30 PDT. This will take care of SOME of the whiteflies. Rinse off a couple hours later. Then, tomorrow evening, spray with the BT -- this will take care of the more pressing danger...having your plants munched overnight by hornworms. Then in a few days, get on the neem oil treatments. get about 3 treatments in about a 2 week period and then back to the BT. Check to see if the neem has made a difference. If not, continue with the treatments but maybe order some lacewing eggs. You have a ton of growing season left, so you may want to go that route if you can afford it. You may have to keep releasing them if they don't stick around though.

Like i mentioned before though, once you release beneficials, you'll want to ease off using pesticides(organic or not). Except the BT, you can keep using that until the cows come home.

Do some research. I'm not entirely sure or convinced that neem can be used in conjunction with beneficials. Let me know if you find something out.

regarding mixing BT and neem--- I wouldn't. Ask folks in the organic gardening forum.

Kevin

I sprayed them down really good with soap last night. it seemed pretty effective, but I was pretty annoyed at the whole situation, so I soaked them down with soap more than I ever have before. this morning I didn't see too many live ones, compared to many other morning-after sightings.

the problem with some of the plants is that they have undergrowth pretty much at soil level, and it's hard to spray under them. as a result, there's a part of some of the plants that had probably been untouched by the soap, making it much easier for the whiteflies to come back. so today I decided to just cut all the really low undergrowth off. I think that will help, even if it was a bit drastic.

I figured I'd use the soap, last night, then neem them tonight. but both of my spray bottles crapped out on me last night (I left my good ones back in melbourne, and bought cheap walmart ones here), so I'll have to go to lowes tomorrow and get better ones before I do any spraying. I still have to go buy the BT.

I don't have insecticidal soap, I just use the non concentrated basic (no bleach, etc.) dawn dish soap. I am unfortunately on a budget. is there a huge difference? should I just suck it up and spend the money, or is the dawn doing more or less the same thing?

oh and when I saw that moth it was about 11pm here. it was unfortunately probably the right one. I hate moths so much. I almost wanna buy one of those bug zappers.

Don't use Dawn. Use commercial insecticidal soap or make your own using fels naptha, castile, or Pure ivory. It must be SOAP... no detergents, no perfumes, no additives. Google "homemade insecticidal soap recipe castile fels naptha"

You may have to order the castile or fels naptha online... i can't find them in the supermarkets or drugstores locally.

Your wisest investment at this point would probably be a pump sprayer-- makes life easier. Then the soap, then the lacewings.

I know it gets pricy -- gotta pick your battles. That's why I'm saying lacewings as the last investment. I don't want to see you get discouraged if they happen to not get the whole job done before the larvae turn into adults to fly off. They can get kinda pricy at 15-20 bucks per release.

Whatever you do, don't get stressed. If your plants are in relatively good health, just keep doing what you're doing. I would, however, switch away from the Dawn.

Kevin

are there any other cheap store bought soaps that you or anyone else could recommend until I can come up with a better solution?

I should probably mention that I have not yet found a job in tampa, and student loan money doesn't pay out until exactly a month from now. I have zero money coming in. spending 8 bucks on neem started quite an argument. when i say I'm on a budget, I mean I'm already way over budget. I am not even gonna tell my wife about the BT.

I bought a bar of ivory bath soap, grated one up with my microplaner and then threw it into a gallon jar of water. Over a day or Two, it dissolves into a gooey liquid. I then add 4-5 TB of the goo to a gallon of water in my pump sprayer.

That gallon of goo lasts me well over a year. I'm not sure if Ivory DISH Soap is acceptable. What your looking for on the ingredients is fatty acids like sodium cocoate, sodium tallowate, etc. PURE Soap.

Whatever soap you use, just make sure you rinse it off within a few hours to prevent any ill effects when the sun starts shining. It's a contact killer -- so leaving it on doesn't make sense.

I've also read that Murphy's oil soap is acceptable. But check with the organic forum on that one.

Like I said before though, don't fawn over your plants TOO much. Too much attention will kill them quicker than any pest.

Kevin

Hello!

When doing repeat treatments, I want to prevent build-up of Neem on the leaves...which I then have to handwash down the road (learned this the hard way combating a spider mite infestation on my citrus). An overnight set of Neem is plenty long to be effective, especially if I'll be following up with another treatment in a few days.

As Kevin mentioned, only NON-detergent soaps.
I have successfully used Murphy's Oil Soap and Dr. Bronner's pure Castile soap (only a few drops per quart of water). Now, however, I simply use a small amount of Pro-TeKt as an emulsifier for the Neem. Works excellently.


Josh

I have used Neem Oil concentrate, which is 70% N/O and 30% Other non active. Currently I am using BAYER brand.
I use it mainly to combat Powdery Mildew on cucurbits.
The instructions call for 0.5 oz per gallon of water. I used it just yesterday on my squash and cucumbers that have started showing signs of PM. I have used it (different brand, though) in the years past. I have also used it on eggplants infested with GREEN aphid nymphs(?) that look pretty much like white flies. But it does not work on contact.

But I have read good reviews on Daconile(?), here at GW. I might get some. Both N/O and Daconile are anti fungus not insect killer.