I personally LOVE the name, especially being from N Carolina and dabbling in Hot Jams and such. I've already made some 'Naga' Jam and I think Carolina Reaper Jam would just be COOL to have!

Have I thanked you guys lately for this new hobby of mine!

Tim

Tim

1) Is this pepper stable? As in, has it gone through all 8-12 generations to weed out the instabilities and produce a pepper that will grow true under all conditions?

2) Has this pepper been properly tested by non-biased sources using samples from multiple plants over multiple generations?

If either of those gets answered with a "no", then I would greatly doubt the integrity of anyone that would be willing to sell them.

After all, if they aren't proven stable, then there is no guarantee of what your seed will grow into, even if it came from the original tested plant itself. And if it hasn't been tested over multiple samples from multiple generations of plants, then its entirely possible the one or two pods that got tested were just complete and unreproducible flukes.

If they have been proven stable and reliable, then awesome, I'll be happy to grow some. Just as soon as I can get some from someone besides PepperJoe.

http://thehotpepper.com/topic/33289-hp22b/page__st__260#entry691220

In my personal and professional life I never buy version 1 of anything. I'll trust average Joe and qualified 3rd party reviews, not a marketing campaign.

Remember the pre-launch hype for Microsoft Vista or the Segway.

I did read through chunks of that thread though, and someone did say they had heard it was 8th generation, so thats good. At least we know its stable.

I have no idea.

Josh

Mark

Mark

Will it be larger than the normal ones?

that being said yeah I think its all hype just read through that thread, its all "we" tested no factually or scientifically third party data on the peppers just a claim but once its out to the general public more data will come

Tim

But back to the topic. The "Carolina Reaper" is simply another in the long list of Super Hots that claim to be the hottest in the world. The Ghost (Bhut Jolokia) pepper drew some credibility as the worlds hottest pepper when the Guinness book of world records got behind the claim. Since then, various testing sites and methods have been used on all the following worlds hottest claims. Until one sanctioning body is established to regulate, test and authenticate these claims, everyone is going to claim "their" test and testing procedures to be accurate. Some will test pod after pod until they finally get a pod to test what they want and then declare the whole strain is that hot. Who knows how the tests are actually performed and under what conditions. It is like rain fall. Ten people in a single small town may go out and read their rain gauge and declare last night's rain fall any whwere from .5 inches to 1.0 inches. It might be inaccurate rain guages. It might be incorrect placement of the gauges, it might be simply differing amounts over a small area. It could just be some guy looking at puddles on the driveway and assuming we got an inch last night. In fact, the only real measurement that really counts is the one by the National Weather Service or NAOA or whatever organization is in charge. The Pepper world needs that kind of organization....Maybe the New Mexico State University Chile Pepper Institute, or Maybe Guinness. But some credible organization needs to be established.

Some people say "Does it really matter when you are over 1 million SHU's". When people are buying their seeds for a buck or more each and they currently hold a monopoly on the seed, then, YES, it does matter.

Bruce

Josh

Pepperjoe pmed me on another board claiming he had sold "tens of thousand packs of seeds", he claims that publicity, good or bad, as long as it produces hits on google, which he said pushes sales is making him rich.

His words not mine......

Did not sound too concerned about the pepper or his customers, just mentioned "riches"

Draw your own conclusion.....

puckerbutt is Ed Currie's company. I only know him by reputation, he seems to be a real stand up guy and respected amongst a lot of long time growers.

I'm on the fence with respect to this "new record hottest", time will tell. That being said, I wouldn't hesitate buying seed from Mr. Currie because he seems to be a true enthusiast.

Like I said earlier, I never buy version 1.

Now for the comments. Here are mine.

I personally don't think most of you should grow this pepper. Ever.

1. If you do order seeds, more than likely they will be lost in the mail. Of the 1000 packages or more sent out, it will be yours that this will happen to. Just you.

2. If you do receive the seeds, it will be yours that won't germinate. Of the 10 seeds you plant, maybe 3 will grow and they will be sad, sad plants.

3. If any of those 3 actually make it to the containers, they will be the only peppers in your garden that will be
infected with insects and prone to all pepper blights. In fact, those 2 plants, (another just died) will be the cause of all the other peppers you own getting sick and die a horrible, horrible death.

4. If, by chance, a sole surviver actually produces fruit, it will be a basic bell with no heat. Nothing more. Everyone else of the 1000 customers who purchased them will have a decent product, but no, not you. Damn that man for intentionally doing this to you, just you. The heathen.

So just don't do it... Got it already. Some of you have some 'heartburn' with this guy. I read about it on every other post. Just get a room I say.

It's a plant. A package of seeds are 10 bucks and my package had 20 seeds in it,. If you end up not liking it, never plant it again. Drink water, press on, life continues, and try(or not try) something else next year.

Here I thought that they would be a good trading seed for me with those of you who have all these seeds I want, can't find them to order, and I have nothing currently that ya'll would be interested in trading. You boys are killing me.

Otherwise, just ask, and I can send you a packet of seed labeled what ever you like. Heck, I will even write on the packet that they are 2,000,000 Scoville. Oh, Free shipping, just give me the address. I might even send you an extra free packet of Ghostanerobell seeds which might contain some cucumber seeds.

I have ordered from one online retailer in my life. I got two packets correctly labeled and two that were not. I won't say who that retailer was. Since then, I have harvested my own seed, bought Burpee or other B&M store seed or obtained seed from the fine folks here on GW. I have had only one plant not grow true, and I knew the very real possibility of that when I got the seeds. At least it was a cross and not a completely different variety.

And as far as the Carolina Reaper seed goes, I dont really care if it is 800,000 Scoville or 1,800,000 Scoville. The heat in that range is indiscernible to me anyway. But I do think it is pretty cool looking pepper. It makes me wonder why they are releasing the seed now, before they have some kind of official word on it being the hottest. It seems to me their are worried someone else has the seed already and my release it before them or they are worried it may not officially qualify as the "hottest" and make is much less valuable. Why the rush? If it never gets the "hottest" ranking, it will not be good for a sellers reputation when they have been making the "Worlds Hottest" claim in advertising it. Says who? The same guy who screwed up my pepper seed order two years ago?

If you read this entire post after reading the rest of the posts in this thread, then I think you should shut off your computer and go do something much more productive, such as inspect your pepper plants for the sixth time today.

Bruce

Apparently disregard it.

Sorry.

And no thanks.

Later.

Tim

Got them today, thanks for asking.

*golf clap* *thumbs up*

lulz.

I look forward to spending $5-$10 on 5 seeds very soon.

Tim

Much less than pepperjoe has claimed around the web. Expedite? Either Guinness is lying, or the other party is HIDING something. As a sole promoter, I would be terribly upset if Guinness stole $4K from my supplier and left me with zero results after so much hype on his behalf. I haven't seen that story yet.

Here is the link: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/08/25/3478893/is-locally-grown-c arolina-reaper.html

Caveat Emptor.

I'll break this down into 3 parts.

1. Ed Currie is a very stand up guy. I know him personally and talk to him quite often. I am not here to sell his reaper seeds. I have no ties to him in terms of that. However, I will say I have eaten several strains and believe me when I say, they are noticably hotter than anything I have had and if you find me on youtube you will see that along with my wife, we have eaten pretty much every pepper known. Point is, the reaper is real and Ed Currie is a very nice and honest guy.

2. Pepper Joe is well known. Years ago I bought from Joe and I will have to say that in all honesty, his seeds had better germ rates and more trueness than anyone else I bought from at that time and that includes the "big" names.

3. The reaper. As I mentioned, it absolutely had the hottest burn we have had. We tried several strains and some were hotter than others. Ed has done a fantastic job at having these tested (years). I don't know the entire history behind this as he hasn't told me yet but until and unless he is disproved, I'd say at least at this point, he is on to something. I haven't grown the reapers yet but will be doing about 1,000 plants shortly so I can post results. I have heard so negative results in terms of germination and not being true but I can also say any super hot is harder to germinate and for a first time grower it may not go very well. For those that have got them to germinate and are saying they aren't growing true, I question this because outside of Joe, Ed, myself and a couple others, these seeds were not even available until about August so I am curious how they have peppers already (at least in the USA)...just curious.

Tim

I think some of us who happen to be on THP and other pepper/growing/breeding sites are well aware of some of the controversy on this pepper.

Also, a disclaimer on the pepper "Pod shapes, color and size may vary" from one of the seed sellers raises some alarm bells.

Size? to an extent, yes...

Shape? yes, to an even tighter extent, but not massive variation in expected pod characteristics...

Color? no, not acceptable outside of chance mutation...

This pepper sounds a bit unstable based on the small amount of early info and it's concerning a few people. Maybe it's coincidence...time will tell.

Hey, I've released a pepper I've bred myself. I also knew what I was releasing wasn't stable yet (only in pod variation). I have another self-created pepper hybrid I'm trying to stabilize that needs work in a few areas.

At $10 for 10 seeds I would expect more stability (or at least faith in stability) in a pepper like this.

I'm not calling anyone's personal character into question, but this sounds like a rush job.

Long story short, we'll hear a lot more about this in another 6 months or so...at least more than we've already heard.

---

I'd like to edit and point out there seems to be a lot going on with this pepper (also to take out a bit of potential "flame" that might distract from points I'm trying to make).

I'm not even touching the points of contention others have with it...the claims and hype, whether it's truly the hottest, etc. I'm not interested in that aspect of it's supposed controversy.

What I'm really going on about is there seems to be a bit of unexpected variability already trickling in about this pepper based on early returns from people in controlled climate and warm-climate growing areas. Outside of what's been reported on the web, I have a friend growing this pepper in Hawaii who got seed from a friend in Cali (who got seed from a seemingly legit source, puckerbutt)...and he's getting red/mostly-smooth-pods with a severely sunken/recessed-in-pod "tail." I asked him about the heat, but given that he's not a super chili head who can't handle a bhutj (neither can I), he's in no position to make a review on that. He did say it was very hot, though.

Happy Growing and Happy New Years to all.

Time will tell :)

Reggie

Chances are extremely high this pepper was developed via cross and careful selection of existing OP varieties.

They may be looking into it...or in the process of doing it...but it's a shell game with a limited life in this kind of market. The Red Savina (PVP) enjoyed a great run as the hottest pepper around (on paper...but that's another thread discussion), but now it's almost forgotten since the BhutJ made the scene.

With the increased focus on trying to claim the hottest pepper, the "game" is going to move much faster now. What's hottest this year might not even make people's top-3 grow lists a few years from now.

The Red Savina (PVP) enjoyed a great run as the hottest pepper around (on paper...but that's another thread discussion), but now it's almost forgotten since the BhutJ made the scene.

Now with a PVP, if PuckerButt could skim even 3 cents/seed (on average) for a few seasons, it would represent revenue that they would not receive without a PVP. Moreover, a product tagged with a PVP will almost surely be perceived by some buyers as an indication of superior value or premium quality... really just advertizing.

Maybe the numbers do not justify applying for a PVP. However what is certain is that without it, the $1.00/seed party will last but one season cycle and PuckerButt will receive no royalties (if that is the proper term) from sales of CR seeds, pods, sauces, etc.

Reggie

Tim

I read this thread yesterday and watched a couple of Youtube videos.

It is really interesting to read all these different opinions. I hope all these differences are for just to get the best of the best.

Caelian

Independent verification from a neutral third party using an average from multiple pods grown from multiple different plants.

Without that, I consider any claims of it's heat to be misleading at best, and outright lying at worst.

I don't care if someone managed to grow one pod off of one plant that broke the record, thats a fluke. When they can show a fully stabilized strain that can reliably be proven to be record breaking in heat, then I will pay attention to it.

Even then I will wait until someone *OTHER* than Pepper Joe carries it. After personally witnessing his atrocious attitude, I will never buy from him again.

To most chili pepper lovers, true heat doesn't matter all that much but with the single unique feature of peppers being their heat, it stands to reason that the "hottest" will always be the defining attribute to garner the most attention. When $$$ is involved, the stakes are raised to be named the undisputed #1 hottest. It is like two football teams claiming to be the best. Until they match up face to face on the field, who really knows for sure.

The Carolina Reaper creators have created a big enough publicity campaign to win a lot of people over and will therefor sell a lot of seeds to those that jut got to have the latest, greatest and most importantly, the "Hottest". In the end, those that do grow them this year likely wont be able to tell if they are any hotter than the Ghost, Scorpions, Naga or other super hots. But until an independent sanctioning body emerges with a different claim, those growing the Reaper will be able to say they have the "hottest" pepper in the world growing in their back yard.

Bruce

It would be sad for Ed to lose his reputation over what others have described as a snake oil salesman. The parent plants are not named for "proprietary reasons" which is BS because it would take at least EIGHT generations to stabilize a cross as these peppers were supposedly grown out for. By that time, the Carolina Bleeper would be another pod of the past. As if there are no other crosses being created and in their f(whatever) stage RIGHT NOW.

There was no release of promised information either. Suddenly the info trail has gone dark and in the current pj catalog, he has disrespected Guinness and the creator of the CURRENT world record holder by putting ED's pepper at #1 WITHOUT SUBSTANTIATION, abusing the Guinness name for PERSONAL GAIN. That is misrepresentation and THEFT.

But he knows, there is one born every minute. My two cents? Don't be the one born in the next minute! After all, if you check out his 2013 catalog, you will see he didn't even spell Ed's last name correctly. Attention to detail or counting his cash in advance?

Lawyers, used car salesmen, and now, second hand pepper seed salesmen. Welcome to the circus.

Tim

Just the facts.....

First visit to this website (and last, judging from the douchebags on here), but I couldn't resist. I had to sign up and call this stupid hick out real quick.

Joe never sent you a pm that said that.
You see, I recently purchased a pack of said Carolina Reaper seeds from "Pepperjoe". I was doing some research on the intrawebs and found a chili-head board called "thehotpepper" with a thread about the Carolina Reaper. There was this guy "armac" who was on there blasting the Carolina Reaper and Pepper Joe. Pepper Joe has hated this liar since day one. So, why the hell would he pm this to some Natty Ice drinking trailer trash that slanders him on every message board, knowing full well that he would use it against him? Liar!
-Out

He may run a decent business as far as how he treats customers who pay him goes...but he's rubbed more than one person the wrong way over his many years.

He can be as abrasive as someone signing up to a site to call someone a stupid hick and tell someone they've never had a conversation exchange they should know absolutely nothing about...unless they're a person involved in the conversation.

Either way, this wouldn't be the first time PJ has had to deal with a non-fan of how he treats a community and others in it. You can call it "hate", but some of us don't need another person's rant to make up our minds about PJ independent of what anyone else may have to say about their communication exchanges with him.

Sometimes I think the hot pepper "scene" is a little too agro/testosterone "boys club" than it should be for a bunch of guys planting plants and selling seeds. The amount of money that's on the line the past 10 years has not helped the aggressive nature and defensive/pre-emptive nature of what used to be a rather friendly and cooperative community of breeders. At least the seed traders/givers are still out there behaving themselves like gentlemen without drawing up cliques.

So, why the hell would he pm this to some Natty Ice drinking trailer trash that slanders him on every message board, knowing full well that he would use it against him? Liar!

Reggie

LMFAO

Thank god for Al Gore giving us the internet and all the entertainment that comes along with it.

Kevin

pj has many surrogates here and on other sites talking trash about the product believing it equals dollar signs while trying to bully any challengers into silence, mainly via a PM or an empty threat of a lawsuit. I have no "legal team" because I do not misrepresent myself or my products.

There has been ZERO factual evidence to disprove what armac posted and what armac claims. Instead, there was name calling and unsubstantiated hysterics by johnp0311. This user should be reported and removed from this site for personal attacks on other members. Armac has NEVER, I repeat, NEVER, taken this skirmish to a personal or name-calling level. He has stated FACT without emotion, which leads to HIS credibility.

There is a thread here which took about 90 posts before pj finally posted a gif that read "the customer is always right." pj and penny are two, two bit bullies, that many communities are starting to reject. They destroyed what little reputation they had for want of "riches." They steal images, rename plant varieties for personal gain, and never make apologies. The reap what they sow.

Stay away from these two devils.

Btw, if threads like this get too "personal" or "attack" they tend to get deleted and any useful comments/criticism/points get lost to history.

In light of all this information, it brings to mind two scenarios.
1. The people involved with this pepper know it's not the hottest. They are merely trying to make as much money as possible before someone gets the proper documentation to expose it for what it is, just another pepper.
2. This pepper is in fact the hottest pepper, but the people involved have found out the "next big thing" in the pepper world is ready to make it's debut. They are trying to cash in on the CR before this is released, and the CR because just a memory, much like the red savina.
Obviously this is pure speculation. I have no "insider knowledge", and do not even have seeds in my possession.

Tim

_________

It hardly matters TOO much -- Even with all the publicity, the "ghost" has been "entrenched" as the world's #1 for such a long time on TV and the such that when talking to the average heat seeker(non-growers et al), they all have heard of the "ghost." The average hasn't even heard of a butch T or Naga or reaper -- But almost EVERYBODY has heard of the ghost.

So, new pepper enthusiasts will search for GHOST seeds or plants anyhow. Ghost sales will remain brisk -- a helluva lot more than any other superhot.

It certainly seems PepperJoe has opened up a can of worms though. On other threads, I've seen lists of sites to buy seeds from -- I don't ever see the name pepperjoe.com as a favorite. Instead of trying to getting business for having the "SO-CALLED" hottest, he might have just wanted to stick with the status quo and work on customer service and the like to keep the dollars flowing.

They say even bad publicity is good publicity -- I think that really only works with celebrities.

Kevin

P.S.

Tim, you finally going to change your username to something like PepperApprentice or something? :P

When pepperjoe finds himself challenged, he does all he can to remove the post and/or ban/restrict the person telling the truth about him. You also failed to address that issue, giving credence to my original observations.

Pepperjoe has, and I will say this again, suddenly become very quiet in pepper circles, as has "penny" in tomato circles. They must be counting their riches at the price of posting information promised MONTHS ago...

"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time."
Abraham Lincoln, (attributed)
16th president of US (1809 - 1865)

In my experience, that is PJ's normal modis operendi. Find anywhere on the internet that isn't singing his praises, bait people into attacking him, then running to the mods so that they will close the thread down.

It seems to be fairly effective in silencing his critics.

The funniest part of this is that I am being called cleaver!

Sorry, I am a legit member (and a pretty upset one at that)who doesn't know pepper Joe from Adam.

Lots of postings have already been deleted. (Really didn't like being called a troll on those long lost posts)
That comment above is what is wrong here, you can take speculations and write them as they are facts, without actually knowing the truth. That just doesn't make them right.

Could you all just start another thresd here, let this one die, and keep me out of it. Would appreciate it. Laura

First time in this part of the forums. Hand to god I'm not some sort of shill. I'm a high schooler who grows peppers.

As far as I'm concerned, the peppers are what matters. I never was one for the whole posturing that seems to go on around the hot peppers. I just want one that tastes good.

I found the thread looking for thoughts on the pepper. Maybe I'm in the wrong place.

Let's all just hold hands and get along! Kumbaya, my fellow growers!

Anybody tasted one? How was it? Forget the scoville rating, I want flavor information. Is it a good eat?

EDITED to be a bit more true to my feelings. I've had good dealings with Joe in my experience and, to me, my experience is what matters most.

tchnowizard12: Don't take this thread as an indication of the rest of the Hot Pepper Forum here on GW. Very few have this level of animosity throughout them. It is a contentious topic and in particular this new Super Hot and it's promoters seem to be polarizing people do a degree not very often seen on this forum.

I think the best thing to do now is just let the people grow it out this year and by then we will get some good candid reviews of it plus we should see some specific developments in the "hottest pepper" circles. If it doesn't get some independent national attention by this summer, then it likely is just another also ran contender.
Bruce

Josh

Tim

In all fairness, when you came on the boards you did so in a polite, respectful manner and did not treat people as if you were stepping down from the high heavens into the cess pit to talk to them.

That can't be said of everyone that might happen to stop by once a year to cause a scene and then leave again.

54 more posts to go...

Tim

Lunch break!!