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tomt226

5 oz Bottle Canning Questions

tomt226
9 years ago

OK, I know how to can stuff in mason jars with the water bath and all that, but what is the procedure for the glass 5 & 8 ounce sauce bottles. They have plastic caps, with no real seal that I can see. So, how do ya'll pros do it?
I'd also like a good cheap site for ordering a few dozen bottles of each size for X-mas season.
Gonna make my own labels that say in plain black lettering on a white label:
"THE GREEN SAUCE"
"THE RED SAUCE"
"THE YELLOW SAUCE
"THE ORANGE SAUCE"
Kinda ironic, ain't it?

Comments (18)

  • kclost
    9 years ago

    I just make sure that I place the cap end of the filled bottle in boiling water for a few seconds. I also fill the bottles with almost "boiling" hot sauce. Be careful!

    If the bottle has been used before, obviously it should be boiled as well.

    This post was edited by kclost on Thu, Sep 18, 14 at 10:02

  • pepperchuck
    9 years ago

    The abridged version that I can offer is:
    â¢Make sure the pH is correct (â¢Sterilize and warm your bottles by running them through the dishwasher{{gwi:807}} on highest temp setting (don't do this with the caps, if you have the dripper inserts you can toss those in too though I don't feel like it's crucial and they will go everywhere!)
    *You want to fill warm bottles so they don't break
    **Don't use soap when sterilizing the bottles, residues don't taste good!
    â¢Get your sauce to a sterilizing temp (190ð) and maintain this temp through the process
    â¢Funnel into your bottle, flip upside down for a minimum of 15 minutes to sterilize the cap (that is why it is important to maintain the 190ð temp through the process)
    *This process doesn't make a vacuum{{gwi:807}} seal so you can add a wrap or I personally like wax sealling, it looks really awesome!
    â¢Last step: enjoy the fruits of your labor! We've been working hard on this stuff for almost a year. Offer to friends and watch as they squirm with a face full of fire even after you gave them fair warning!

    This post was edited by pepperchuck on Thu, Sep 18, 14 at 10:02

  • pepperchuck
    9 years ago

    Where I get my bottles until I can find a local source

    Here is a link that might be useful: bottles

  • 2ajsmama
    9 years ago

    I don't know about filling the bottles with plastic caps, but I would wash them (bottles in the DW, caps by hand). You sterilize bottles by boiling submerged for 10 minutes (at sea level). And the pH must be BELOW 4.6 (less than 4.2 is even better, if you get it tested at a lab and it shows 4.0 or less then you can use litmus paper rather than a pH meter at home to check each batch). There was a typo in pepperchuck's first post. If you use a tested recipe you needn't be worried about pH for home use/gifts.

    Sorry, I don't know about filling or processing the bottles, I know maple syrup is bottled (open kettle) and capped at 180 degrees. Maybe Jason (judo) can comment based on what he's learned from getting his commercial process approved.

    I've only canned my hot sauce in mason jars, when we run out of what's in the fridge I wash and boil the (old commercial hot sauce) bottle and just refill it (using non-sterile funnel, it's plastic) and stick it in the fridge.

  • pepperchuck
    9 years ago

    Good eye!! That makes a huge difference!! Yes less than 4.6!!

  • judo_and_peppers
    9 years ago

    make sure your caps have the little white liners inside the caps, or you cannot safely can the sauce.

    in terms of pH the lower the better. I shoot for around 3.0 so the sauce is safe to leave on the counter after opening indefinitely.

    my method for canning with these is:

    -boil the bottles before filling (whether they've been used previously or not)

    -soak the caps in vinegar while you're waiting to use them

    -boil the sauce

    -fill the bottles while the sauce is still hot, figure out your most efficient filling routine 9the specific ways in which your arms move in the process of pulling a bottle out of the water, dumping out the water, and then ladling in the sauce) a good procedure should take no more than 20 seconds from the time the bottle comes out of the water til it's filled and capped.

    -turn the bottle upside down and lay it on its side to make sure the hot liquid helps sterilize the lids.

    -bwb for 10-15 min. there's no pectin to set/worry about overcooking, so at least 10 min.

    I find I get best results when I put all the bottles in the canner and fill it up so that the water level just barely comes to the top of the standing up bottles. when doing the post processing, put in half as many bottles as you originally had in there, too many bottles at once will result in caps coming open, in which case those bottles need to be discarded.

    edit: when you take them out of the boiling water, double check that the caps are tight, and then apply the heat shrink wraps if you've got them while it's still hot so it ends up nice and smooth looking.

    I'd have just attached my recently approved process description which says essentially exactly what's above, but it's much less detailed of a description. (so, yes. the above is an approved process)

    (edit: when I say less detailed I mean I described the process in as few words as possible, leaving more open to interpretation if I figure out better ways to do things in the future, what I wrote here was more of an explanation. more detail in the following posts).

    This post was edited by judo_and_peppers on Thu, Sep 18, 14 at 23:14

  • 2ajsmama
    9 years ago

    Thanks Jason - can you boil those plastic lids? What are the white liners - not the coated cardboard circles (I imagine those can't be boiled, they'd disintegrate)? And I imagine you only briefly invert/tilt the bottle, then right into the canner with it (upright) so to prevent thermal shock, do 1 bottle at a time so first ones aren't cooling while you fill the others? And do you actually submerge the capped bottles, or just go up to the bottom of the cap, or how deep? I imagine this won't work with flip-top caps? I'm just used to home canning, there you want to cover the tops of the jars by 1-2 inches.

    I was talking to a beekeeper at market last night, she asked how much I charged for my jams and jellies, she has pear trees, etc. and makes some jams. She says Ball jars are too expensive, she gets 7 oz jelly jars from local supplier she also gets honey jars from. But she said the 1-piece plastisol lined caps can't be boiled, so she uses inversion (probably honey is bottled the same way) and said all (?) commercial jams and jellies are done the same way (?). Honey and maple syrup don't tend to support bacterial/mold, etc, growth though.

    I did see that method in the textbook for the FDA's Acidified Food Processing course, it's called Hot-Fill-Hold, and sometimes the bottle is inverted or tilted, but the contents are held at a high temperature (not specified, that would be part of your approved process) for a certain amount of time (also specified in your process) after filling. But the USDA (who recommends home canning procedures, which is what small-scale farmers use in their kitchens) doesn't recommend inversion (open kettle) canning or oven canning, says BWB is the best method to get a good vacuum seal and prevent mold from growing in high-acid products. Some pickles can be pasteurized in 180-185 degree bath instead of boiling.

    This post was edited by ajsmama on Thu, Sep 18, 14 at 10:24

  • judo_and_peppers
    9 years ago

    I pull the bottles out and fill them one at a time, then set them off to the side (laying on their side for the amount of time it takes me to fill 5 bottles, or roughly 2 minutes) to BWB them all at the same time. they're still insanely hot (too hot to touch) by the time they go back in the bath.

    part of why I say to put half as many bottles back in to the bath as you had boiling, that way the water won't cover the cap. as it's at a nice rolling boil, enough hot water will still splash up to the cap to sterilize it, but covering the caps in 1-2 inches WILL result in lots of bottles coming open. even doing it this way, I tend to lose a bottle to opening in BWB every 2-3 batches, but I can accept those losses. if I cover them in water I lose at least 4 bottles per batch, which is not an acceptable loss.

    my minimum fill temp is 180 (I turn the burner off once it reaches a boil, and when temps drop below 185 I turn the burner back on low). since I'm filling the bottles immediately after pulling them out of the boiling water, their temp is somewhere in the "hot as f*ck" range.

    my local glass container distributor has jars that fit ball 2 piece lids, but all they sell is a similarly sized metal 1 piece. you can still do home canning with those (and I do, because they're half the price), there's just a whole lot less margin of error. you have to get it perfect. luckily when it comes to making a product I intend to put my name on, I'm such a perfectionist it makes other perfectionists look sloppy, so that's not an issue to me.

    yes, I get accused of being a robot on at least a bi-weekly basis.

  • Mecdave Zone 8/HZ 9
    9 years ago

    Fillmore as mentioned earlier is a good place to buy bottles, but the shipping will eat you up. I buy the 24mm 5 and 8 oz bottles so you can use the same 24 mm lids for both. Buy plenty of extra lids as they're not supposed to be reused. Their sleeves add a nice touch and provide a place for you to make notes.

    If/when you find a bottle supplier in Austin let us know please.

  • 2ajsmama
    9 years ago

    The honey lady gave me the name of her local jar place - still an hour drive for me, but with only a $50 min might be worth it not to pay shipping or have to store a pallet full of glass.

    What do you mean less margin for error with the 1-piece caps? Actually, I think Annie has used the 1-piece - do you have to limit the processing time to 10 minutes or something? I bought 4 dozen jelly jars on Amazon this summer, they were a few pennies more than at Walmart but they came in nice sturdy cardboard boxes with dividers so I can use for transporting back and forth to market so it was worth it, but it seems the price goes up by 50 cents a dozen each year so it's over 67 cents a jar now just for the plain ones (with the oval embossed fruit that makes it hard to put a label on - my labels go on the lids). Even though I ask people to return jars for a deposit (10 cents seemed good, that way I can recycle a couple of times and buy new lids and still be less than new but even when I upped it to 25 cents I didn't get any takers), I don't get any back to speak of. If I can get a jar with a lid for less than 60 cents (which I can't through online sources) then it would be worth a trip to buy 10 dozen (which in some years I've gone through).

    When you say the bottles open under water, do you mean flip tops open up, or screw-on caps leak water into the product?

  • John A
    9 years ago

    Beth at Peppermania.com is a good source for bottles. She won't over charge you for shipping.
    John A

  • Mecdave Zone 8/HZ 9
    9 years ago

    ajsmama: The Mainstay brand 1/2 pint jelly jars at Walmart are less than $7 a case. The larger sizes not much more. I like the looks of them too (see my Habanero Gold jars in the jelly thread).

  • 2ajsmama
    9 years ago

    Thanks John. Do they sell jelly jars too?

  • judo_and_peppers
    9 years ago

    when I say the jars open, I mean the screw on lids unscrew and come completely off the bottle getting water in the bottle and hot sauce in the water. it's a complete loss. I forgot to mention in my described process above that you have to check the tightness on every bottle when it comes out, and if it's done right they almost always need to be slightly tightened because they expand slightly further from the bwb, giving it a nice vacuum noticeable from the hiss you hear when it opens. (I'm going to go and edit my above post to mention this).

    now I'm not gonna lie, this technique involves developing some heat tolerance on your hands (you are after all hand tightening something that just came out of boiling water). or someone can come up with a less barbaric method than my "just use your hands sissy" approach. but finding a good non slip surface to do it on so you don't have to use the other hand to hold the bottle still helps (I use a textured glass cutting board). yes, I considered and tried using the jar tongs, but it ends up being more trouble than it's worth IMO. the kitchen I'm renting charges by the hour, so shaving down the time wherever I can is the name of the game. I've given thought to getting a torque wrench and finding the ideal tightness, and just using that.

    you can tell this is a topic I spend a lot of time thinking about. thankfully I'm better at actually doing it than I am at describing it.

  • 2ajsmama
    9 years ago

    Try nitrile coated work gloves. Hex wrench might work if you find the right size.

    Yes, the jar tongs (and new band tightening/loosening tool, and the semi-circular hard jar gripper pot holder thingie) from Ball are made for half pint jars or larger, won't really work for bottles.

    What happens if you put the shrink-wrap sleeve over the cap before BWBing?

    Lots of people on Harvest forum reporting problems with the Mainstay lids - I don't know about jars, but given problems with contamination of food, lead in pottery glazes, general lack of concern/oversight by Chinese government, I don't even know if I want to buy glass jars (lead) made in China to use with Ball lids and bands.

    The Golden Harvest jars (also made by Ball/Jarden) at Big Lots aren't any cheaper, and the GH lids aren't coated so I worry about them reacting with acid foods and rusting out. I'm not even pickling any peppers this year, I have so many from previous years. Maybe I'll jump through the remaining hoops to sell acidified foods in-state next year. But I only have 2 more weeks of market left, and no one's coming by the farm stand, so it's not worth making salsa or pickled peppers to sell now - just salsa for our own use. Which I didn't get to today.

    This post was edited by ajsmama on Thu, Sep 18, 14 at 13:52

  • tomt226
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thanks to everybody for the helpful info...

  • John A
    9 years ago

    Ajsmama - Mecdave has a good suggestion to get your jelly jars at a local discount store or super market.
    BTW - I don't process my sauce after I fill the sterilized bottles. I just make sure the pH is John A

  • Mecdave Zone 8/HZ 9
    9 years ago

    "Ajsmama - Mecdave has a good suggestion to get your jelly jars at a local discount store or super market. "

    Yes and no apparently. Ajsmama is reporting some in the Harvest subforum are having trouble with the lids. Lead may or may not be an issue too. I haven't had any problems myself, but buyer beware.

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