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A NEW Record Hottest Chili Pepper?

Posted by bbqpdxcom 8 (My Page) on
Tue, Nov 22, 11 at 14:57

We have received what appears to be credible evidence that a grower here in the U.S. has produced not just one, but two HPLC test results that if confirmed, would surpass the Butch T as the Hottest Chili Pepper in the world!

A link to our initial report is provided below. This is not an official claim by the propagator of the specimens. It is an article we wrote based on documentation that we were given exclusive access to.

We will provide more facts as they are confirmed by the University that produced the document. Stay tuned!

Thank you,
Brandon - bbqPDX.com

Here is a link that might be useful: NEW Record Hottest Chili on bbqPDX.com


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: A NEW Record Hottest Chili Pepper?

Interesting, but it would be nice to see some corroboration.

If true we have got to be approaching the limits of heat that a pepper can actually produce.


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RE: A NEW Record Hottest Chili Pepper?

We anticipate being able to post a copy of the test results very soon. We've chosen to honor the wishes of the grower and hold off until they verify that all the proper procedures were followed and the results are accurate. Can't blame them though, it would look pretty bad if they made such a bold claim that didn't have multiple pieces of evidence to back it up.

Here is a link that might be useful: New Record Hottest Chili?


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RE: A NEW Record Hottest Chili Pepper?

  • Posted by esox07 4, S. Cent Wisc (My Page) on
    Tue, Nov 22, 11 at 16:32

"the mature red specimen tested at more than double the SHU's the Butch T needed to gain it's title".

DOUBLE??? That is taking hot to a whole new level. But, it seems every year there are claims such as this that never pan out. A lot of times it is just a ruse to sell some U/I seeds. There were no specifics mentioned in the article. No variety named, the test site was only listed as an American university. Again, no specific name. No hard Scoville numbers.


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RE: A NEW Record Hottest Chili Pepper?

It will be interesting to find out if this is true or not. So this pepper is double the Butch T so about 2.92 Million Scoville which is above the amount found in pepper spray which can be up to 2 million SV. Maybe true maybe advertising ruse, or a pepper sprayed pepper lol. All kidding aside I hope there is a results follow up and not some random post that dies never to be updated. Time will tell I guess. That's my 2 cents.....


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RE: A NEW Record Hottest Chili Pepper?

Another unstable hybrid?

Useless if so , since chances are you can't re grow it.

There is a UTUBE video going around where some guy claims his Hybrid is hotter than Butch T.
It is a hybrid and the guy has no idea if it'll grow true to it's seeds.

Butch T has been around since 2005 or 2006 when butch sent me and tons of others seeds for it,it is a stable strain.
It was then called Trinidad Scorpion Jonah.
The people in OZ grew it and had it tested and re named it Butch T after Butch Taylor.
If I remember right,he thinks it is possibly a Scorpion Cumari cross.

It seems to me they should have to prove a plants stability to get world record status,otherwise like several other peppers, it's just a flash in the pan.


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RE: A NEW Record Hottest Chili Pepper?

i find it VERY hard to believe that it legitimately tested at double the butch t... also agree with smokemaster (got the seed yesterday-thanks) that it's likely to go the way of the naga viper...

smoke- what's the difference between the butch and what folks currently call the jonah?


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RE: A NEW Record Hottest Chili Pepper?

Hold on, not double the total SHU. This is what it says: "the mature red specimen tested at more than double the SHU's the Butch T needed to gain it's title." What I meant is that the Butch T set the record by around 80,000 SHU's. This one scored more than twice that number higher. I apologize for the confusion. As far as the hybrid "thing", don't look so far into it. All that's been stated so far is that a higher number has been produced. They are not claiming to have created a new species.


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RE: A NEW Record Hottest Chili Pepper?

Okay yeah, that wording is very misleading. Needs an asterix or something to specify that its as much hotter than a Butch T as the Butch T is to the Bhut Jolokia.


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RE: A NEW Record Hottest Chili Pepper?

Which pepper are you comparing to? If the Bhut Jolokia then the Buch T beat it by 460,000 Scoville units. Let's just wait for the facts.


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RE: A NEW Record Hottest Chili Pepper?

Ahhh..... commence the parsing......


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RE: A NEW Record Hottest Chili Pepper?

I don't see the use of Trinidad Scorpion Jonah much anymore but see a lot of 7 Pot jonah versions out there.

The story I was told is that the Butch T is just the name they gave the T.S. Jonah after they grew it out and tested it.
I was told Butch sent them the seeds originally.

I don't know how long the guys in Australia grew them out or if they got crossed along the way.
I doubt they would have given Butch the credit if they had done any intentional crossing before they had it tested.
Butch does think it may or may not have crossed in his garden years ago with a cumari but he isn't sure.
All he knows is they are stable and hot.

At least thats what I read...

I've had some Douglahs that I think might be equally as hot from time to time.
Lately with all the non isolated seeds going around and with hardly anyone,in general ,isolating varieties and strains it's a crap shoot every time you put a seed in the sprouter.
With the high prices being paid for seeds (plants,pods and powders)these days a lot of people are crossing anything with anything and if the hybrid happens to be hot they hawk it as a new strain etc.

Most of the stuff won't grow true or be consistant in any way like the original cross was.
I think you have to grow a hybrid out 8 times to get a 98% chance that it's stable.
Some one posted a while back a chart of how many times you have to re grow a hybrid before it can be considered stable.
Re growing a hybrid can mean back crossing the offspring several times to get what the grower wants.
Lots of work involved in developing a new variety or stable strain.

Once it's stable they re name it and call it a new strain or variety.It's not considered a hybrid anymore.


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RE: A NEW Record Hottest Chili Pepper?

Smokemaster, is this the chart you're talking about?

For anyone interested, the chart was taken from the website referenced below. The author uses Tomato genes to illustrate crossing but it applies to peppers, etc. etc.

Here is a link that might be useful: Crosses explained


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RE: A NEW Record Hottest Chili Pepper?

i agree that the douglah's may very well be as hot- they are nasty hot (and taste like poo imo).

i grew 4 isolated varieties each of the last 2 years and am upping it to a dozen or so next year.


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RE: A NEW Record Hottest Chili Pepper?

Being the science nerd that I am, I had to check the math. It's good. The thing to remember is that as the frequency of the undesireable genes becomes increasingly smaller, it becomes increasingly difficult to remove it from the population. So, if you want to maintain your reputation as a seed producer, you probably want to go out even further than the 14th generation. This is probably why you see most new strains coming out of areas that have multiple growing seasons each year.


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RE: A NEW Record Hottest Chili Pepper?

Thats the chart I was talking about,Thanks.

People I don't think realize what it takes to develope a new true variety of pepper or just grow seeds out to insure that they have pure seeds to begin with.
But these guys are all instant experts on how great their seeds are.
I see seed vendors,especially for super hots giving all kinds of excuses about why their seeds are not growing what was advertised.
It's never their fault....
They don't grow the varieties out and really have no clue as to their seed source being stable or pure for that matter.
Most grow a seed out 1 season and if it looks cool they sell it.Isolating a hybrid only 1 season might grow a similar plant but it's seeds probably won't.

But that 50 cents and up per seed keeps them selling the seeds anyway.
They offer replacement seeds-of what,more untested seeds? lol


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RE: A NEW Record Hottest Chili Pepper?

I've noticed...especially in the pepper/heat market...that people are NOT taking their seed lines far enough before they announce they have the "next big thing."

It's nice to have a hybrid, but how about making it stable first?

Peppers are prolific inbreeders and you should only need to outbreed once for hybridization (unless you're doing something really tricky). A little reverse/crossbreeding may be necessary to clean the genetics up, but rarely with peppers/toms/etc.

Rushing something you can't replicate the following season with a stable seed supply is sloppy, imo.

It only takes 1-2 additional grow-outs/seasons/etc. to mostly stabilize your seed line...and you should go 5-7 to maintain stability.

...and you're going to proclaim you have a hybrid...at least make sure it's a legit/stable hybrid rather than a mix of genetics that you have to grow 10 plants in order to get the 5-ish plants you want.


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RE: A NEW Record Hottest Chili Pepper?

OttawaPepper: That link to "crosses explained" was extremely informative and easy to understand. It's saved in my favourites now, thanks for posting the link.


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RE: A NEW Record Hottest Chili Pepper?

quoting smokemaster:"I see seed vendors,especially for super hots giving all kinds of excuses about why their seeds are not growing what was advertised.
It's never their fault....
They don't grow the varieties out and really have no clue as to their seed source being stable or pure for that matter.
Most grow a seed out 1 season and if it looks cool they sell it.Isolating a hybrid only 1 season might grow a similar plant but it's seeds probably won't.

But that 50 cents and up per seed keeps them selling the seeds anyway.
They offer replacement seeds-of what,more untested seeds? lol"

gee, i wonder who you could be talking about... you left out the part about getting really defensive when they make their excuses... :)


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RE: A NEW Record Hottest Chili Pepper?

You mean the guy who was begging for seeds everywhere only a couple seasons ago and is now an expert? LOL

There are a couple around like that but I think we both are talking about the same person. LOL

If ya can't dazzle them with Brilliance,Baffle them with B.S.
On your way to the bank of coarse. :)


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RE: A NEW Record Hottest Chili Pepper?

got to be the new hottest 'cause it says so on ebay... and it can be yours for only $60/oz!!!

Here is a link that might be useful: ebay listing


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RE: A NEW Record Hottest Chili Pepper?

After you grow peppers as hot as any of those you discussed, what do you do with them? Is it like climbing a mountain simply for the sake of saying you got to the top? The chocolates I grew this year all went into a sauce mixed with tomatoes and molasses and it's still hot enough to blow your head off.
John A


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RE: A NEW Record Hottest Chili Pepper?

John - It becomes a tolerance issue.

First time I had a sauce made with Bhut peppers I was in pain for almost half an hour.

I have since figured out how to make the sauce (as hot or hotter than the original) and eat it regularly with little to no pain. Once you get beyond the pain (and I understand some can't) you can start to enjoy some of the interesting flavors underneath.


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RE: A NEW Record Hottest Chili Pepper?

I personally am not about to eat one of the superhots, yet I grow one or more of them every year. I've grown Douglah's, Scorpions, 7-pots, Bhut's, Red Savina, and 2 or 3 more. After a certain amount of heat, they are just too much for me. I love to make sauces and soups and such with them. 1/4 of a really hot pepper is enough to make a gallon of chili fireball hot. My personal favorite eating pepper is Chapeau de Frade which is decently hot and has superb flavor but won't send me to the hospital.

The link above for crossing and segregation is Keith Mueller's website. The chart presumes you are making single seed selections and that all further crosspollination is prevented. You would grow one or more F1 plants and save seed. There is no selection at all from the F1 plants because you want the maximum amount of segregation in the offspring. Then you would grow the F2 plants and begin selecting based on plant and fruit traits and save seed ONLY from the plants that meet the desired traits. Then you would grow F3 plants and continue the selection process. The devil is in the details though, if you consider a single seed, then it will fit the chart above. But when you consider the entire population of plants grown out in a Filial generation, you could see every gene expressed that existed in the original cross.

By the F7, if you have done the selection work properly and if you prevented further crossing, then you can have a highly homozygous line that breeds true for most if not all traits. The background mutation rate then becomes significant enough that it begins to influence the level of homozygousity. Typically, each new plant grown from seed will have 2 or 3 new mutations that were not present in the parent. The vast majority of these mutations are harmless and undetectable but once in a while one will show up that changes a significant plant trait. So the gist of this means that once you get to the F7, you are going to have about as stable a line as it is possible to achieve. Beyond that point, you are not going to achieve much because of the way the genetics work. That doesn't mean you stop growing them or that the breeding and selection work is done, it just means that the line is stable for all practical purposes.

If you are a serious plant breeder, the F7 generation is where the really serious work begins. Grow out a large number of F7 plants. Then carefully go through each and every plant with a detailed list of traits that should be met. Rogue out all plants that do NOT meet the standard. Each generation thereafter has to do this same level of detailed selection to maintain the original line.

From the above, for generations F1 to F7, you are figuring out which selections to INCLUDE in the population. Once you reach F7, you are figuring out what to EXCLUDE and therefore must be removed from the breeding line.

DarJones


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RE: A NEW Record Hottest Chili Pepper?

Thanks for your explanation, Dar. That's one of the most understandable I've seen. Obviously, I am not a serious plant breeder and have never isolated any of my plants. My Trinidad Scorpion Morougas are a perfect example this year. This is the 3rd year I've grown them and saved seed, and to my surprise, they were yellow and not nearly as hot as in previous years. Likewise, I was up to F8 with my Brandy Boy tomatoes, and ready to declare victory. This year they reverted to something totally unrecognizable.
John A


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