Does this term sound condescending to anyone else? OK, I'm probably just not with it, uncool, not savvy with computer-speak or just the old lady that I am who remembers a different time. I finally had to see where in the world this over used term came from and when it started because its doing its yearly pop-up. Maybe its just me but it seems demeaning to single people out and talk to adults as if they are children put in the kiddie pool with a sign on it. Its like when Richard Simmons started calling vegetables 'veggies' so we children would eat them and popularize them as fun instead of food. Baby talk.

I don't really see it that way. To me it's just Internet-era speak, like "selfie". All of us are newbies at one time or another in different pursuits. I don't get the sense Ken means these posts as insults. It's more like hey, if you're new to this, here's some things to help get you started.

Why I don't find the term annoying I can't say -- I do know that it drives me crazy when I see young people spelling "whoa" as "woah". It's like the generation that grew up with Keanu Reeves maybe.

If you buy into zen at all it might be helpful to cultivate "newbie mind". :)

Yeah... we really need to get outside in the
garden. When we start excruciating over how certain words will affect
people's feelings on a garden forum, then we've obviously been cooped
up inside with our seed catalogs for far too long. I feel especially sorry for those way up north where the ground is still frozen. They have got to be going stir crazy right about now. I'm glad I don't in Iowa any more. Not that there's anything wrong with Iowa, but I just prefer three months of winter weather rather than six.

I wouldn't go as far as excruciating (torturous, intense suffering) but... it seems it might just be embarrassing when new people ask a simple question and get this as an answer: "You must be a newbie, lol" followed with a list of posting instructions etc. (translation: "hey stupid" followed by eyeball rolling) I've seen it happen a lot on this forum.

Are you guys getting in on this gorgeous, sunny, unseasonably warm weather? Can you believe its February?? We are getting up to the 80's in a day or so and currently in the 70's. It looks like one of those heat dome patterns on the weather map in the entire midsection of the country, very unusual for this time of year & I've been taking advantage of it. We are dry as a bone, I had to finally break down and water today. We aren't cooped up here & no seed catalogs this year, its been a mild winter. Like you, I'd have a hard time with six months of winter.

It is absolutely gorgeous here. In the 70's, sunny. I have never stopped gardening in the winter. Its my time to trudge and dig away. I got my tomatoes in and look to plant the string beans soon.I stop gardening in May and then all I do is weed, water and watch things burn up. I am getting the last of my perennials in. I need to get their roots established before the big heat hits. I want to be a nattering nabob!

I guess I've never looked at it that way before. But, yes, I do see how that could be pretty insulting and unnecessary. I'll be careful what I post in the future. I want to try to keep gardening as fun and relaxing for everyone as I can. I don't want to be the one who made gardening less enjoyable for someone else.

Anyway, yes this weather is unseasonably warm but very nice. I'll enjoy it while it lasts. Like I said, this Saturday I'm going to clean up some of my flower beds and fill in that mole's sink hole. (This could become a battle of the wills.)

We're heading for 70+ today, and supposedly only down to 55 tonight, which is the real anomaly. Gonna be super windy though. Might be a good time to work on making some more cages for rabbit-proofing.

I remember seeing some posts last year from a gardener somewhere near Fairbanks. I think it was either zone 1b or 2a. Talk about spring fever.

We are in the 80's with 50mph wind. Gads, woodstea! I going out to trim down that row of tall giant sacaton grass growing about 4 ft from the house if you can relate. Its scary, the whole state is on high fire alert and its dry as a tinderbox out there with no rain, there are several fires springing up today as predicted.

Oh yeah, I was out throwing a football for the dog to retrieve and the first thought going through my mind was 'FIRE' (the wind and the low humidity).

Sounds like us here in CA from March to October- in our dry months my nose is always on the alert for the frightening smell of smoke.

It is the middle of February in KS and I am driving down the street with the window rolled down and wearing a short sleeved shirt. And, yes, it is very dry here too. My daughter, the meteorology buff, said it is because of the El Nino. She thinks we are going to have A LOT of severe thunderstorms this summer because of the coming La Nina. We'll see, but I hope we don't have a lot of hail. Hostas + hail = disaster.

46 days and no rain and counting. We were supposed to get some today, but they took it away. Maybe tomorrow. My fingers are crossed.

No rain here either but my Red Shift Coreopsis, Walkers
Low Nepeta, Siskiyou Pink Gaura, and Sedums
have already emerged from dormancy. I attribute this to the unusually warm temps we've been getting. If we get a late freeze or hard frost (which we probably will), will it permanently damage any of these early risers?

We are sombre in grey - the predominant colour of spring in England. Temperatures are going to hover around 50ishF for weeks and weeks and I am caught between waiting for soft spring sun and the bulbs, THE BULBS, the blossom, green spark of potential...or worrying it is all rushing past - too many essential tasks, all requiring timing and planning (and inevitably doomed to fail). I have 3 planting areas (I cannot call 2 of them 'gardens') and all are in a parlous state having made plans ( hahabloodyha) in autumn which involved destruction and reconstruction. The destruction went swimmingly...

Fingers +'d. We are 'supposed' to get some tomorrow. TV weatherman predicts as much in one day as we've seen all year so far, not that thats saying a lot BUT, its supposed to be more than a splatter this time. Last rain we got was a splatter, a 'mud rain'. Snow? Yea, right. Get real. Parts around here were in the upper 80's and 90's last week. It was downright hot and we finally turned on the air conditioner to cool the inside of the house down. I've got red spiders attacking my Yucca rostrata. I had to give it a pineapple haircut and spray the heck out of it. I hate red spiders more than any other pest.

samnsarah, I never worry about the early risers, it happens here almost every year, we often get a long protracted warm period followed by frigid and typically we get a big wet fluffy snow in March (if lucky). This weekend I noticed Little Bluestem is already starting to green up at the base, now thats weird. Around here it makes it very difficult to grow peaches, cherries, apples etc because more often than not, they end up blooming in Feb and they get nipped. Apricots are successful about one year in 12 it seems like.

camps, daffodils are going full tilt here right now. Its been sunny every day since mid January and will be sunny most days until October. The only dark time here is late December and through January. This is skin cancer country.

Thanks for the information, Ranger. At least I know that I don't need to worry about rushing out to cover the plants up.

And I hope your rain doesn't turn into a flash flood.

I am about ready to get rain in the next hour. It will be the first rain of the new year. I have left the car window down as the a dare. I measured a foot deep crack in the front field.OH boy, I hear thunder. It might really happen this time.

I got out in the perennial garden a couple weeks ago during a beautiful mild spell to cut down all the old perennial grass stems (a real chore). And I'll probably be out trimming sedum stems and other detritus tomorrow, when it's supposed to hit 60. If I was scared to death of "soil compaction" I have no idea when I'd find time to do cleanup chores. Obviously I will not be turning over soil and digging in amendments for quite awhile (exception: I had to dig out a few leftover turnips because our Lab decided to uncover and gnaw them down to the roots - yum, icy cold raw turnips!).

And not to belabor the point, but it'd be a good idea to avoid the term "newbie" and similar appellations, unless the less experienced/inexperienced gardener uses them to describe him/herself. It's often seen as derogatory. I do not appreciate it on other forums - for example computer/electronics support forums, where newcomers are automatically given snide designations to emphasize their newness, and may eventually evolve to becoming "contributors", "senior contributors" or "veritable godlike founts of wisdom" (I exaggerate, but not much).

Thankfully, GW has never seen fit to label forum participants in this matter.

rusty_blackhaw, I figured it wasn't humanly possible to be the only person who viewed 'newbie' that way, the label has always rubbed me wrong and sounded demeaning but then most labels do. I always wondered why this one was necessary in the first place on these tutorials because the information is the same whether written for an audience of gardening 'first graders' in particular or just anyone in general.

At the dire risk of compaction I'm living dangerously too but I've got it just about cleaned up. All the big grasses are finally trimmed except for 3 big clumps of Switch grasses which still look so ornamental I just couldn't bring myself to whack (NO! NO!) but those aren't putting up green at the base yet anyway. I've got callouses but its done. Looks pretty bare out there, I've been at this for some weeks now. Whew! We even got some rain last week. Finally. Gonna move some plants next while its still warm/cool/cold.

I think he used the term in fun. There's so many other things in this world to get your knickers in a bunch over. Like, I still have to get through tomorrow before seeing more warm weather! :)

We've had dry and warm weather here, so I did my first bit of planting this year, much earlier than usual. Our local nursery had put out containers of Sanguinaria canadensis and Mertensia virginica that were just starting to emerge, so I planted some of each on Saturday.

Last year at this time I would have been planting into frozen mud (last year on the same day the low was 6 degrees), but the soil was nicely workable this year.

With high temps expected in the 50-60sF this week I decided to cut back my tall NOID grass today while the ground is still frozen. Did most of the other cleanup last fall.

"The deconstruction went swimmingly..." Thanks for the smile, Campanula. I am well acquainted with that aspect.

UPDATE:

I thought of this thread almost as soon as my booted foot sank into the thawing terra firma of the garden.

I was 'over stepping' to get a better view of the too soon arising bulbs. It isnt even March 1st and they are showing themselves :(.

Ah, I consider this thread to be an annual harbinger of spring :) This past week of record warmth has accelerated all growth in my garden. Most of my bulbs are showing and I even spotted a couple of blooms on my creeping phlox and Sweet Williams this morning. Many of my roses have gone from the breaking bud stage to actually leafing out and I am at a quandary as to whether or not to prune them now or to wait. I do have enough stepping stones and paved surfaces that I could access them and wouldn't risk soil compaction in the process.

DH and I put it on our calendars to trim some trees last Sunday - we had it planned for a while, we both knew we'd have time and trees are usually still dormant. I should have saved all that maple sap to make a nice jug of syrup.... What a mess - it was raining sap.

Innit! I swear tulips leaves grew 3 inches in a single day. Not yet got to the tardy panicking stage (but it's in the mail) and (ahem) Storm 'Doris has provided an excuse for the shambolic mess...although 3 panes of glass were broken in the greenhouse (wildly flapping door).

As excited as I am about the imminent return of spring, I'm finding it easier to stay out of the garden until the right time. I've started keeping "garden notes" on my computer - and I make detailed notes of any ideas I have for the garden for the season. It's kind of interesting to see what pans out or what things I look back and ask what kind of crazy drug was I on when I thought that idea was the best thing since sliced bread?

I was thinking of this thread when I was out in the garden last week. Most of the time I can avoid this issue but this year, I couldn't get out in the garden all winter to do any pruning. So the first opportunity to do so was last weekend when the weather was in the 50's and the snow had melted. I could feel that the ground was soft that I was walking on too.

But, I can't wait much longer to get to the pruning and I have a lot more to do. I do see a few days of cold temps coming up next week, that I'll try to reserve for doing that but probably the ground won't be frozen any way.

So what is the solution in that situation? Let the pruning go until next year? [g]

time for a bump ... ken

time for another bump ... note.. timing is highly zone dependent ... ken

time for another bump .... maybe someone will chime is .. lol .. ken

Ken, go to sleep for another six weeks, before your ground can be worked.

Yes, avoid the soggy stuff! Two years ago I completely revamped yucky soil--compost, peat moss, etc., per Tracy Di-Sabato Aust's recs. I'm still amazed at how fluffy the soil areas which I haven't fooled with are (almost always because I just haven't gotten to that area in my planting) when compared to the other. I stepped on a couple of those spots last spring when it was soggy and wet, and it felt like I sunk down several inches. Oh no! There are some compacted footprints in that soil now. I'm much more diligent now about staying off those areas. And, likewise, I'm pretty diligent about walking on this areas where I don't want plants, like much pathways. High hopes that I can compact weed seedlings to death. :-)

Yay! I'm not a newbie any more because I recognize this thread, and am leaning waaaaay over from the path to photograph my hellebores so I don't step in the garden mud.

jenn ... thank you.. you made my day .... i taught someone something ... bazinga ... ken

Regarding the danger of compacting soil, what do you folks think about this?

http://www.nodiggardener.co.uk/2013/08/gardening-transformed-you-can-work-on.html
http://www.nodiggardener.co.uk/2012/07/reason-not-to-dig-2.html

time to bump this up ..ken

Every spring I recall ken's sage advice, and every spring I ignore it :(.

The garden calls me; yes the force is strong.

The warning comes to late for me. It will be 95º in a couple of days. Too late to plant anything till it cools down and then it will be too late because it will be too close to the "Big Heat".

sure rouge.. but youre not a newb ... and you know how to avoid creating a problem and solving it if you do ...

I've never seen, and still don't see, soil compaction as a real issue...unless of course you are trimming back plants with a backhoe. You do need to be cautious about crushing new shoots emerging from the ground. But having said that, your garden is for your enjoyment. It exists because of you. If you want to get out into it and pull the early weeds or trim back the dead tops of last year's perennials, then go for it. So what if you break a few stems, or Heaven forbid...compact the soil (insert terrifying scream) it will be okay. Remember, your garden is for your enjoyment. Go out and have fun in it if you want to.

There are some serious concerns about soil compaction that should not be fluffed off quite so lightly! It damages soil structure, which is then difficult to repair. And impaired soil structure can and does impact plant growth by restricting root development and access to nutrients, water and oxygen, which are much harder to access in compacted soils.

It doesn't take much to create soil compaction...certainly does not require a backhoe!! Walking or standing on saturated or wet soils will do it, as will merely cultivating wet soils. The effects of soil compaction are more easily seen in lawns, in the form of routinely used pathways, which tend to be of a slightly lower grade and marked by weakened, halfhearted or even nonexistent lawn growth along those paths.

You can tell if your soil is compacted by analyzing the weed growth there :-) Some weeds tend to be very adaptable to compacted soil and and their presence is a good indicator you have compaction issues: plantains, dandelions, chickweed, ground ivy/creeping Charlie, knotweeds and creeping buttercup can all indicate soil compaction.

Tim wrote:

But having said that, your garden is for your enjoyment. It exists because of you. If you want to get out into it and pull the early weeds or trim back the dead tops of last year's perennials, then go for it..

I agree completely.

I think the intent of ken's long standing thread is a reminder not to be a "bull in a china shop" when in your early spring garden.

correct rouge ...

i was late reposting this year.. you might note that originally this was posted in march .. and further note im in ground freeze area ...

there is just nothing you should be doing in the garden when the soil is thawing ... im sure its all different for warmer zone peeps ... especially in areas where they start in the garden in february ...

also.. i have sand.. over compacted sand.. is near cement by late summer ...

peace out peeps ...

ken

@gardengal

thanks for the plant list

Some weeds tend to be very adaptable to compacted soil and and their presence is a good indicator you have compaction issues: plantains, dandelions, chickweed, ground ivy/creeping Charlie, knotweeds and creeping buttercup can all indicate soil compaction.

do you know those off the top of your hat (head?) or could you recommend a website with those (and preferably botanical names...)

I did a quick web search but found mostly (German) sites aiming at beginners

and I have to fess up to seeing quite a lot of the mentioned plants/weeds im my allotment...

do you happen to know whether Plantage media is also typical for compacted soils?

Thx, bye, Lin

I DO know them as it happens :-) I also grow many of them (not intentionally)!!

plantain = Plantago species

dandelion = Taraxacum officinale

chickweed = Stellaria media

ground ivy/creeping Charlie = Glechoma hederaceae

creeping buttercup = Ranunculus repens

knotweeds = Polygonum/Fallopia/Persicaria Or whatever they have decided to call them today :-)

ETA: I should mention that while being indicator weeds for compacted soils, they can grow under other conditions as well. However, with the exception of the creeping Charlie (which grows wherever it wants), these never appear in my uncompacted and quite fluffy planting bed soil.......only in the lawn.

sure rouge.. but youre not a newb ... and you know how to avoid creating a problem

You are too generous. Just today I planted my big fat work boot directly on the many 1" high pips of an emerging and otherwise healthy hosta. I couldn't have squashed it any better if I had tried. So stupid.

since some of you mentioned this recently.. how about another bump ... ken

Ken, your bump is always welcome. In fact, it was this bump a few years ago that started my education on spring soil. Now if I can only keep the delivery men and kids from driving over the garden edges in the winter.